HD DVDs Fall Like Dominoes

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vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
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Originally posted by: Phokus
Is the picture quality on upconverting 1080i/p DVD players as good as blue-ray/HD-DVD players?

No. There is a much wider range of colors and a "sharpness" to quality HiDef transfers that upconverting can not match.

It's definitely not a night & day difference but if you watch a couple Blu-Ray/HDDVD movies in a row and then flip over to standard definition you really can notice once you know what can expect.
 

Slick5150

Diamond Member
Nov 10, 2001
8,760
3
81
Originally posted by: DanTMWTMP
Originally posted by: jlfirehawk
I didnt see this answered but Blockbuster rents Blue Ray only here in the US, of course I think Netflix does HD, dont know if they do BR as well or not.

Netflix has the option to rent out BD.

Both Netflix and Blockbuster rent both formats online. Most Blockbuster stores only have Blu-Ray though (albeit a small collection)
 

Slick5150

Diamond Member
Nov 10, 2001
8,760
3
81
Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: yllus
Universal: We're staying with HD DVD

5:00 pm ET January 10, 2008 -- Universal Studios has officially dispelled the rumors from Variety that it will drop HD DVD and switch to Blu-ray.

"Contrary to unsubstantiated rumors from unnamed sources, Universal's current plan is to continue to support the HD DVD format," said Ken Graffeo, executive vice president of HD strategic marketing for Universal Studios Home Entertainment and also co-president of the HD DVD Promotional Group.

It's not clear what led to the Variety claims, but they follow similar rumors reported by the Financial Times -- and later disputed by the studio -- that Paramount would go Blu-ray only.

Sources close to the matter say that neither Variety or the Financial Times bothered to contact HD DVD for confirmation before publishing the rumors.

Paramount Denies Report It Will Drop Toshiba's HD DVD

Jan. 8 (Bloomberg) -- Viacom Inc.'s Paramount Pictures denied a newspaper report that the studio is poised to follow Time Warner Inc. in abandoning Toshiba Corp.'s HD DVD technology.

"Paramount's current plan is to continue to support the HD DVD format,'' Brenda Ciccone, a spokeswoman for Paramount, said in an e-mail today.

The writing's past being on the wall, sweetheart ;)

It's over. Give up already...

Mwuhaha :laugh:

I love how you act like you won something here. Who cares? Neither format had any real advantage over the other from a technological standpoint, but why anyone would rather have a format with several layers of DRM and region coded discs (Blu-Ray), over a much more open format (HD-DVD) is beyond me.

I have invested $0 in either format, and will continue not to.
 

TheTony

Golden Member
Jun 23, 2005
1,418
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Originally posted by: AndrewR
SACD -- There's no competitor that I am aware of, or is there?
DVD-Audio.

Despite this thread, the suggestion that remaining big players are going BD is unsubstantiated, and has been since the rumor started 3 or 4 days ago. That said, it's obvious favor is swinging in BD's direction. In a way, that's bittersweet, because, despite the technical merits of BD (whose storage benefits are somewhat negated by the new triple layer spec of HDDVD), HDDVD does do a hands-down better job of implementing features included in its spec. HDDVD has supported features that BD is just now adding or planning to add in the next year.

As a technology user, I'd rather see a better implementation than a superior technical spec whose promise takes years to deliver. If BD ends the format duel, they need to step up and deliver a mature product.
 

fallenangel99

Golden Member
Aug 8, 2001
1,721
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but why anyone would rather have a format with several layers of DRM and region coded discs (Blu-Ray), over a much more open format (HD-DVD) is beyond me.

Maybe because the companies want to protect its movies from copied, distributed illegally, etc? That's all i can think of.
 

TheTony

Golden Member
Jun 23, 2005
1,418
1
0
Originally posted by: fallenangel99
but why anyone would rather have a format with several layers of DRM and region coded discs (Blu-Ray), over a much more open format (HD-DVD) is beyond me.

Maybe because the companies want to protect its movies from copied, distributed illegally, etc? That's all i can think of.
DRM I can understand and tolerate, assuming I'm not beaten over the head with it when I use my own software.

Region coding, on the otherhand, is nothing more than a moneymaker for the studios, and I have a hard time supporting that, when it means much less choice for those who are in the market.

 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,936
3,915
136
Originally posted by: Slick5150
Thank god you started yet another thread on this! The ones that already exist clearly aren't enough

I'd like to take this opportunity to reiterate that all bluray supporters are doodoo heads.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
63,014
19,300
136
Originally posted by: fallenangel99
but why anyone would rather have a format with several layers of DRM and region coded discs (Blu-Ray), over a much more open format (HD-DVD) is beyond me.

Maybe because the companies want to protect its movies from copied, distributed illegally, etc? That's all i can think of.

I think he was referring to consumers.
 

Slick5150

Diamond Member
Nov 10, 2001
8,760
3
81
Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Originally posted by: fallenangel99
but why anyone would rather have a format with several layers of DRM and region coded discs (Blu-Ray), over a much more open format (HD-DVD) is beyond me.

Maybe because the companies want to protect its movies from copied, distributed illegally, etc? That's all i can think of.

I think he was referring to consumers.

Indeed. The people that seem so happy that Blu-Ray is "winning".

Again, I haven't invested into either format, but my hopes were that HD-DVD would become more widely used to set a precedent that things like Region Coding are a thing of the past. But apparently some folks here are big fans of limiting what you can and cannot play on your player.
 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,373
1
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If it ends the format war. I will be happy. Still, I thought all this talk was just rumors. Personally, I think we are ready to ditch disks and start making the push for purely digital HD Downloads. It is so much better if you ask me. It takes away a lot of technological limitations that we currently face.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,402
8,574
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meh, big deal. the player cost me $99 and i got a bunch of movies with it. not like the movies are going to wear out, and unless toshiba is as crappy as sony, the player will likely last a decade or more.
 

adairusmc

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2006
7,095
78
91
Originally posted by: Xavier434
If it ends the format war. I will be happy. Still, I thought all this talk was just rumors. Personally, I think we are ready to ditch disks and start making the push for purely digital HD Downloads. It is so much better if you ask me. It takes away a lot of technological limitations that we currently face.

:thumbsdown:
 

tfinch2

Lifer
Feb 3, 2004
22,114
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I'm sure this question is a bit naive, but why don't studios just produce movies in both formats?
 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,373
1
0
Originally posted by: tfinch2
I'm sure this question is a bit naive, but why don't studios just produce movies in both formats?

Contracts and it lowers profits overall as opposed to the scenario where everyone owns only one player to play one format such as a regular DVD player.
 

MmmSkyscraper

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
9,472
1
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Originally posted by: tfinch2
I'm sure this question is a bit naive, but why don't studios just produce movies in both formats?

Why would they want to? One format makes life a lot more efficient for the studios, whatever the rights and wrongs of the format are.
 

vrbaba

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2003
3,266
0
71
This thread will be locked like the others about news on format war in the OT.

Nothing new anyways, just rumors.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,664
6,546
126
Originally posted by: PokerGuy
It sure looks like BRD is going to emerge as the 'winner' in this fiasco, but the ultimate loser is the consumer that's going to get saddled with more DRM riddled junk regardless of which standard wins. I'm perfectly happy with dvd or upconverted dvd, so I'll stay out of the HD mess for a few years.

eh bluray has already been cracked so i don't know what you are really worried about :p
 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,373
1
0
Originally posted by: adairusmc
Originally posted by: Xavier434
If it ends the format war. I will be happy. Still, I thought all this talk was just rumors. Personally, I think we are ready to ditch disks and start making the push for purely digital HD Downloads. It is so much better if you ask me. It takes away a lot of technological limitations that we currently face.

:thumbsdown:

Why? If it is simply a matter of preference I can understand, but at the very least the option should be readily available which it is currently leaning in that direction. I can already rent HD movies by downloading them through XBL and DirecTV is about to release a box which connects to your receiver and computer turning that computer into a media cneter for recording HD content. You can then stream that content to a media center hooked to your TV such as the 360 or PS3.

All we need now is a box from a provider which comes with your cable/satellite receiver that acts as a media center along with a service which allows you to download movies of all kinds in various qualities for a price. If they come out with a service like that which provides as much variety in content as say Amazon then I will be one happy geek.
 

eleison

Golden Member
Mar 29, 2006
1,319
0
0
Originally posted by: purbeast0
Originally posted by: PokerGuy
It sure looks like BRD is going to emerge as the 'winner' in this fiasco, but the ultimate loser is the consumer that's going to get saddled with more DRM riddled junk regardless of which standard wins. I'm perfectly happy with dvd or upconverted dvd, so I'll stay out of the HD mess for a few years.

eh bluray has already been cracked so i don't know what you are really worried about :p

the rootkit..
 

Gooberlx2

Lifer
May 4, 2001
15,381
6
91
Originally posted by: Pepsei
Originally posted by: Bateluer
Originally posted by: edro
Sony wins? :(

Everybody but MS and Toshiba backs bluray.

MS could've easily make blu-ray add-on for xbox 360. the only reason they didn't is to make sony spend more money.

MS's real goal is to push digital distribution. which means they also fuck Toshiba in the end by not trying really hard to push HD-DVD.

That's true. MS really didn't push hard on HD-DVD. They could have priced the add-on much lower than it was and advertised for it. 360 owners would have probably bought it in droves at the right price from the beginning (~$100 IMO). I think you're right that, in the end, they really just wanted to stall things and push the marketplace downloads.
 
Feb 6, 2007
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Originally posted by: Phokus
Is the picture quality on upconverting 1080i/p DVD players as good as blue-ray/HD-DVD players?

No. No matter how good your processing/software algorithms are, you are never going to make 300,000 pixels look as good as 2,000,000 pixels. That's not to say that upconverted DVDs don't look good, or that they aren't good enough for the majority of the population; but from a purely technical standpoint, they absolutely do not look as good. But another angle which most forget is that DVDs feature compressed sound; Blu-ray, for the most part, features a completely uncompressed soundtrack, which, provided you have the equipment, sounds much, much better.

Originally posted by: TheTony
DRM I can understand and tolerate, assuming I'm not beaten over the head with it when I use my own software.

Region coding, on the otherhand, is nothing more than a moneymaker for the studios, and I have a hard time supporting that, when it means much less choice for those who are in the market.

Region coding isn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be. I use the comparison of The Rock, which was released several months ago on Blu-ray in the UK. It was a region free title, so I could well have imported it. But given that it cost 20 pounds, not including shipping, it would have ended up setting me back about 60 dollars. I'm not paying that for a movie. People's arguments against region coding are usually not based in reality, as most people aren't importing discs from foreign countries due to the extreme cost involved, not to mention the language issues if importing from a country that doesn't speak the same language as you.

Originally posted by: tfinch2
I'm sure this question is a bit naive, but why don't studios just produce movies in both formats?

It's costly to produce the discs in two different formats, to do two separate cases, and to pay licensing fees to two different companies. Then there are the problems that arise from printing different format discs in the same place (Warner Bros. shipping the HD-DVD edition of Harry Potter in Blu-ray cases for example). The companies did a cost benefit analysis, saw that HDM really isn't a big market anywhere yet, decided it would be cheaper to only support one format, and picked the one that had the most support.

Originally posted by: dug777
I still think the people predicting that we'll all be downloading HD content and that physical media will be dead are completely brain dead.

a) It would require a dramatic change in broadband speeds

b) It would be a complete pain in the ass. Who wants to only have a copy of your movie on your HDD? I find having a copy on my computer useful, but I want the physical disk with my music/movie on it as backup, dammit :|

Exactly. All these articles are predicting that physical media is dead because people will download movies. That's, and I don't want to be accused of using hyperbole here, one of the stupidest things that's ever been said. I mean, yes, eventually that probably will happen, but it's like saying we'll establish colonies on the moon; it will happen some day, but it's not happening right now. Let's examine the problems with the argument:

1. Most people don't have HTPCs. People aren't going to download a movie so they can watch it on their computer screen. They are going to want to watch it on their TV with their friends and family. Given the average person's frustration with basic electronic connectivity, I'm completely unconvinced that most people would be able to get their computer to output to their TV unless they absolutely had to. DVD players, HD-DVD players and Blu-ray players are designed specifically to connect to a TV, which makes them vastly easier to set up.

2. Most people's PCs can't play HD content. A lot of people are still using 5 year old Dells with Celerons, 256 MB RAM and onboard video. To assume that the average computer user has a machine that can process full HD picture (1920x1080) and sound (6 mbps 5.1) is ludicrous. Standardization of codecs is a further problem, and though it's been a while since I've looked into it, when I was doing my own video editing, installing a working build of h.264 or x.264 (which are very good codecs for processing HD content) was a pain in the ass, especially with Media Player. A standardized set of codecs would have to be developed, and it would be constantly refined, requiring frequent updates. If a codec problem developed, would the average user know what to do?

3. Broadband is not widespread in the US. Well, yes, it is, but broadband capable of downloading a 30 GB hidef movie file? Get the hell out of here. I know people who are still on 56k. I know people who can't watch movies on YouTube without choppiness. To predict that these same individuals will ditch DVD for downloadable content in the next couple years is preposterous. How many people are going to be willing to shell out for FIOS so they can stream hidef? Sure, I would if it was available here, but it's not... But most people don't want to spend $50+ a month for the internet when they can get it cheaper. The relative vastness of the US compared to a small country like Korea or Sweden (countries where broadband is much more prevalent in greater speeds than the US) means that reliable, fast broadband is harder to come by and more costly to maintain, and that works against widespread adoption.

-EDIT- Points 1 and 2 are rendered moot if we're talking about set-top DVRs, but then it becomes an issue of DRM. What if you cancel your contract with the cable company? They take back their DVR and you have nothing to show for the money you spent on downloaded media. It's just a way to lock you into a contract, and it stinks. Not to mention, it would take hours to download a true hidef presentation at current cable speeds (it certainly wouldn't download fast enough to stream, unless you settled for an overly compressed file).

So yes, we will have downloadable movies in the future, but they will not eliminate the need for physical media any time soon. The iPod and iTunes was supposed to kill the CD, but there's still crazy people out there buying physical copies of music. This will be no different.
 

TheTony

Golden Member
Jun 23, 2005
1,418
1
0
Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy
Originally posted by: TheTony
DRM I can understand and tolerate, assuming I'm not beaten over the head with it when I use my own software.

Region coding, on the otherhand, is nothing more than a moneymaker for the studios, and I have a hard time supporting that, when it means much less choice for those who are in the market.

Region coding isn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be. I use the comparison of The Rock, which was released several months ago on Blu-ray in the UK. It was a region free title, so I could well have imported it. But given that it cost 20 pounds, not including shipping, it would have ended up setting me back about 60 dollars. I'm not paying that for a movie. People's arguments against region coding are usually not based in reality, as most people aren't importing discs from foreign countries due to the extreme cost involved, not to mention the language issues if importing from a country that doesn't speak the same language as you.

I don't see any upside in your defense of region coding. Pricing is a red herring, to some extent. The fact is that many films are released, region coded, with different extras, ranging from extra material on disc, to things like better soundtracks; DTS is a common complaint, when it shows up on non-region 1 discs but not on the north american release. Not to mention the fact that, if I speak another language and want to purchase different region discs (ie ones not released in my region), I'm going to have to import the player anyway.

It seems that there really is little reason for it, or at least to enforce it, other than to segment the market and subsequently drive additional profit.
 

mrSHEiK124

Lifer
Mar 6, 2004
11,488
2
0
Originally posted by: AndrewR
Originally posted by: edro
Originally posted by: Bateluer
Originally posted by: edro
Sony wins? :(
Everybody but MS and Toshiba backs bluray.
Yeah, but I am happy to see Sony created formats fail.
Mini-Disc (1991)--custom disc format, and used ATRAC audio compression, which is proprietary.
Sony Dynamic Digital Sound (1993)--a competitor to the Dolby Digital 5.1 standard.
Multi-Media Compact Disc (1994)--Sony's proprietary format for high-density optical storage, developed in conjunction with Phillips. Negotiations merged this format and Toshiba's Super Density disc format into what would become DVD.
Music Clip (1999)--Sony's first digital player, used ATRAC audio compression.
HiFD (1998)--a competitor to Iomega's Zip drive.
Memory Stick (1998)--proprietary memory device as a competitor to SD and Flash memory.
Super Audio CD (1999)--an optical disc format with higher fidelity than the CD.
PSP (2004)--Uses Universal Media Disc (UMD) media, a proprietary media format.

So, in your view (I'm extrapolating), any new media format is bad? Do you save things on 5.25" floppies? A few comments.

SDDS -- DTS was the only serious competitor to Dolby for personal use, since SDDS went into movie theaters though I'm not sure it's still out there (I think it is). DTS is superior to Dolby in my experience but died out because it used more space on the DVD. Was DTS bad, too?
MM CD -- Toshiba developed their own standard. Do you heap derision on them as well? Plus, we wouldn't have CDs without Sony and Philips working together. Damn that proprietary CD format!
HiFD -- As opposed to Iomega's equally propietary Zip drive and IBM's 2.88MB capacity floppy, you mean.
MS -- SD, CF, xD, SM, MMC...sure seems like a heap of standardization there.
SACD -- There's no competitor that I am aware of, or is there?

I certainly don't love everything that Sony does, but they are an innovator and have done a great deal in technology. I'm not an apologist for them, but someone acting as if Sony is completely worthless is frivolous. The Walkman was ingenious! ;)

SACD's got DVD-Audio to compete with, and I use compete extremely lightly as they both have a teeny tiny share of the audio market. I've got 2 DVD-Audios that are both double sided CD/DVD combo discs, and one standalone DVD-Audio disc out of maybe 100 CDs, no SACDs at all.

SDDS actually does still have a respectable theater presence, but IMO DTS > *. I'd much rather have a 768kbps+ soundtrack as opposed to Dolby's usual 384kbps. AFAIK, DTS comes in two versions, one for theater use and one for home use, whereas Dolby is just AC3 in both markets.
 

bonkers325

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
13,076
1
0
get a DVI->HDMI cable, a cheapo $20-30 HDCP capable video card from one of the various web-retailers, buy CoreAVC (software x264 decoder) for $10

a computer that is 3 years old can play any 720p/1080p video that is encoded in H264 using CoreAVC. the only problem is finding videos to play, which if you are web-savvy, wont be a problem.