HD DVDs Fall Like Dominoes

Corbett

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
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http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/...minoes/?ref=technology

Crap! I just bought an HD player and 15 HD DVDS!

Nothing has been announced, but Variety is reporting that the last two major studios backing HD DVD ? NBC Universal and Paramount ? are opening the door for a switch to Blu-ray. These studios have commitments to release some discs this year in HD DVD, but both have ended their exclusive commitment to that format, which is backed by a group led by Toshiba.
This comes after Warner Brothers, which had been issuing movies in both formats, decided to go exclusively with Sony?s Blu-ray format. Variety also reports that retailers may also put pressure on Universal and Paramount to back Blu-ray. Last summer, Blockbuster decided to go with Blu-ray only.
So what appeared to be a stalemate may, with one relatively small move by Warner, now turn out to be a quick victory for Sony. The fight between the systems has hurt studios, electronics makers and consumers. And I suspect a winner ? any winner ? will be welcomed by all sides (except Toshiba and Microsoft, a key partner).
Of course, one reason for the standoff is that there are real merits to both sides, as many of the comments to our post on Warner?s move expressed.
Loosely speaking, Blu-ray discs can hold more data, while HD DVD discs and players are less expensive to make. Also, several readers who have used both say they prefer the menu system on the current batch of HD DVD players. My take on this is that once the format wars are over, the normal process of engineering improvements will work through many of the kinks in Blu-ray. Costs for this sort of thing just go down, and they fall faster with volume. Menus are software and can be fixed. Again, everybody benefits from a standard.
The other interesting discussion is whether we really need a high-definition disc at all. Some people suggested that the latest round of ?upconverting? DVD players can turn the 480 lines of resolution on DVDs into a very nice picture on a 720 or 1080 line HD set.
I don?t have a personal view on this. The Hansell household is currently served by a 20-year-old, 13-inch Hitachi set that is particularly well suited to foggy dream sequences. But I do know that in electronics shops, big numbers sell. Look at the people who raced to buy cameras with far more megapixels than they ever would need for 4-by-6 prints. (I know those are fighting words to some.) If a high-definition player and disc was just a tiny bit more money than a standard one, lots of people would say, why not go for it?
But do we need discs at all? With Comcast promising high-definition downloads in 4 minutes and prices of flash memory falling like a rock, maybe we will jump right to a world where video simply lives as a file on a hard drive or flash disk.
There?s logic to that, of course, at least in an engineering sort of way. Why spend all the money and time to stamp out discs and distribute them through stores, when the information on them can be simply zapped over a network to someone?s television?
I wouldn?t bet against this vision in the long run at all. But I also suspect there will be enough demand for physical discs over the next decade to justify the industry?s moves. Consumers have a practical rationality and they understand that discs give them simplicity and control that is elusive for now in an all-digital environment. Instead of relying on some sort of software system to find a movie, you simply pull one off your shelf, out of your pile or from under the bed ? however you like to keep your movies.
And it is still not clear what you get when you buy a movie download. Consider Wal-Mart?s shuttered movie download service. People who bought movies from the service cannot move them onto new computers to play because of the digital-rights management scheme used.
As with the disc technology, all these problems with downloads will get worked through over the coming years.
But for now, if you actually want a copy of a movie that you can count on playing in the future, it?s rational to buy one in a format supported by all the players in the industry, and one that exists in three dimensions. The seeming triumph of Blu-ray only makes that easier and safer
 

dug777

Lifer
Oct 13, 2004
24,778
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I still think the people predicting that we'll all be downloading HD content and that physical media will be dead are completely brain dead.

a) It would require a dramatic change in broadband speeds

b) It would be a complete pain in the ass. Who wants to only have a copy of your movie on your HDD? I find having a copy on my computer useful, but I want the physical disk with my music/movie on it as backup, dammit :|
 

Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,881
549
126
I won't buy a BR player untill disks are available for rent at the local stores. The sooner the better.

Can you rent BR disks in the states yet?
 

Slick5150

Diamond Member
Nov 10, 2001
8,760
3
81
Thank god you started yet another thread on this! The ones that already exist clearly aren't enough
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
It sure looks like BRD is going to emerge as the 'winner' in this fiasco, but the ultimate loser is the consumer that's going to get saddled with more DRM riddled junk regardless of which standard wins. I'm perfectly happy with dvd or upconverted dvd, so I'll stay out of the HD mess for a few years.
 

Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
21,938
6
81
Originally posted by: dug777
I still think the people predicting that we'll all be downloading HD content and that physical media will be dead are completely brain dead.

a) It would require a dramatic change in broadband speeds

b) It would be a complete pain in the ass. Who wants to only have a copy of your movie on your HDD? I find having a copy on my computer useful, but I want the physical disk with my music/movie on it as backup, dammit :|

It's called the future...
We may not all be doing it right now, but you can be almost certain we will be eventually.
 

TruePaige

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2006
9,874
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Originally posted by: dug777
b) It would be a complete pain in the ass. Who wants to only have a copy of your movie on your HDD? I find having a copy on my computer useful, but I want the physical disk with my music/movie on it as backup, dammit :|

A lot of us do keep our copies of moves on HDD's. ;)
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Originally posted by: dug777
I still think the people predicting that we'll all be downloading HD content and that physical media will be dead are completely brain dead.

a) It would require a dramatic change in broadband speeds

b) It would be a complete pain in the ass. Who wants to only have a copy of your movie on your HDD? I find having a copy on my computer useful, but I want the physical disk with my music/movie on it as backup, dammit :|

exactly
I want to also, in the future, be able to take movies with me places (when more people have BD players and HDTVs), and be able to call up a movie immediately, no waiting, no buffer problems when the internets go flaky.. and what about when internet goes down? public service companies do experience outages, and during outages are when I would most want to watch a movie, unless that outage comes alongside a power outage, where then everyone is screwed.

but yea, I like physical media to own. Sure, streaming is great for rentals, but I do like to own movies too. And until the day the US internet backbone can handle streaming video that is on the order of 20mbps+ AVC coupled with 4.0mbps Dolby TrueHD... then I will continue to enjoy building a BD library. :)
 

Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,881
549
126
Originally posted by: PokerGuy
It sure looks like BRD is going to emerge as the 'winner' in this fiasco, but the ultimate loser is the consumer that's going to get saddled with more DRM riddled junk regardless of which standard wins. I'm perfectly happy with dvd or upconverted dvd, so I'll stay out of the HD mess for a few years.

I see a big diference between up converted movies and HD TV broadcast on my system.
 

edro

Lifer
Apr 5, 2002
24,326
68
91
Originally posted by: Bateluer
Originally posted by: edro
Sony wins? :(
Everybody but MS and Toshiba backs bluray.
Yeah, but I am happy to see Sony created formats fail.
Mini-Disc (1991)--custom disc format, and used ATRAC audio compression, which is proprietary.
Sony Dynamic Digital Sound (1993)--a competitor to the Dolby Digital 5.1 standard.
Multi-Media Compact Disc (1994)--Sony's proprietary format for high-density optical storage, developed in conjunction with Phillips. Negotiations merged this format and Toshiba's Super Density disc format into what would become DVD.
Music Clip (1999)--Sony's first digital player, used ATRAC audio compression.
HiFD (1998)--a competitor to Iomega's Zip drive.
Memory Stick (1998)--proprietary memory device as a competitor to SD and Flash memory.
Super Audio CD (1999)--an optical disc format with higher fidelity than the CD.
PSP (2004)--Uses Universal Media Disc (UMD) media, a proprietary media format.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
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Originally posted by: dug777
I still think the people predicting that we'll all be downloading HD content and that physical media will be dead are completely brain dead.

a) It would require a dramatic change in broadband speeds

b) It would be a complete pain in the ass. Who wants to only have a copy of your movie on your HDD? I find having a copy on my computer useful, but I want the physical disk with my music/movie on it as backup, dammit :|

I have ATT U-verse, and when I moved I had to send them back my DVR. So if there were some kind fo downloading movies scheme, chances are you'd lose them when you lose the DVR and probably have to pay a fee to get another copy. I can gaurantee that any download scheme won't let you watch the movies you OWN offline without the device phoning home.

The RIAA and MIAA have been pounding it into our heads that you must own the license to own the piece of work, but at the same time they have convinced us that we must have the original media (they tried to outlaw backups and mp3 rips). Fvck them.
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
34
91
Physical media WILL be dead someday imho but probably not early enough to warrant avoiding Blu-Ray. I have backed HD but only slightly (purchased about 10 movies) and the 360 add-on. To be honest I'm to the point where I know Blu has already won so I just want a single format to continue and to hell with the other.

That's what we all wanted anyway, right?
 

jlfirehawk

Senior member
Jan 10, 2005
417
1
81
I didnt see this answered but Blockbuster rents Blue Ray only here in the US, of course I think Netflix does HD, dont know if they do BR as well or not.
 

Pepsei

Lifer
Dec 14, 2001
12,895
1
0
Originally posted by: Bateluer
Originally posted by: edro
Sony wins? :(

Everybody but MS and Toshiba backs bluray.

MS could've easily make blu-ray add-on for xbox 360. the only reason they didn't is to make sony spend more money.

MS's real goal is to push digital distribution. which means they also fuck Toshiba in the end by not trying really hard to push HD-DVD.
 

paulxcook

Diamond Member
May 1, 2005
4,277
1
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Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Physical media WILL be dead someday imho but probably not early enough to warrant avoiding Blu-Ray. I have backed HD but only slightly (purchased about 10 movies) and the 360 add-on. To be honest I'm to the point where I know Blu has already won so I just want a single format to continue and to hell with the other.

That's what we all wanted anyway, right?

Not really. I'm fine with regular DVD. I just watched a regular DVD (Pirates of the Caribbean 3), upconverted, on my 50" HD screen last night and thought "wow, this looks great".
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Variety is also the place that attempted to smear Obama by putting our poorly researched trash. I put them akin to the National Inquirer in editorial ability and trustworthiness.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Universal: We're staying with HD DVD

5:00 pm ET January 10, 2008 -- Universal Studios has officially dispelled the rumors from Variety that it will drop HD DVD and switch to Blu-ray.

"Contrary to unsubstantiated rumors from unnamed sources, Universal's current plan is to continue to support the HD DVD format," said Ken Graffeo, executive vice president of HD strategic marketing for Universal Studios Home Entertainment and also co-president of the HD DVD Promotional Group.

It's not clear what led to the Variety claims, but they follow similar rumors reported by the Financial Times -- and later disputed by the studio -- that Paramount would go Blu-ray only.

Sources close to the matter say that neither Variety or the Financial Times bothered to contact HD DVD for confirmation before publishing the rumors.

Paramount Denies Report It Will Drop Toshiba's HD DVD

Jan. 8 (Bloomberg) -- Viacom Inc.'s Paramount Pictures denied a newspaper report that the studio is poised to follow Time Warner Inc. in abandoning Toshiba Corp.'s HD DVD technology.

"Paramount's current plan is to continue to support the HD DVD format,'' Brenda Ciccone, a spokeswoman for Paramount, said in an e-mail today.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Is the picture quality on upconverting 1080i/p DVD players as good as blue-ray/HD-DVD players?
 

dug777

Lifer
Oct 13, 2004
24,778
4
0
Originally posted by: yllus
Universal: We're staying with HD DVD

5:00 pm ET January 10, 2008 -- Universal Studios has officially dispelled the rumors from Variety that it will drop HD DVD and switch to Blu-ray.

"Contrary to unsubstantiated rumors from unnamed sources, Universal's current plan is to continue to support the HD DVD format," said Ken Graffeo, executive vice president of HD strategic marketing for Universal Studios Home Entertainment and also co-president of the HD DVD Promotional Group.

It's not clear what led to the Variety claims, but they follow similar rumors reported by the Financial Times -- and later disputed by the studio -- that Paramount would go Blu-ray only.

Sources close to the matter say that neither Variety or the Financial Times bothered to contact HD DVD for confirmation before publishing the rumors.

Paramount Denies Report It Will Drop Toshiba's HD DVD

Jan. 8 (Bloomberg) -- Viacom Inc.'s Paramount Pictures denied a newspaper report that the studio is poised to follow Time Warner Inc. in abandoning Toshiba Corp.'s HD DVD technology.

"Paramount's current plan is to continue to support the HD DVD format,'' Brenda Ciccone, a spokeswoman for Paramount, said in an e-mail today.

The writing's past being on the wall, sweetheart ;)

It's over. Give up already...

Mwuhaha :laugh:
 

DanTMWTMP

Lifer
Oct 7, 2001
15,908
19
81
Originally posted by: jlfirehawk
I didnt see this answered but Blockbuster rents Blue Ray only here in the US, of course I think Netflix does HD, dont know if they do BR as well or not.

Netflix has the option to rent out BD.
 

AndrewR

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,157
0
0
Originally posted by: edro
Originally posted by: Bateluer
Originally posted by: edro
Sony wins? :(
Everybody but MS and Toshiba backs bluray.
Yeah, but I am happy to see Sony created formats fail.
Mini-Disc (1991)--custom disc format, and used ATRAC audio compression, which is proprietary.
Sony Dynamic Digital Sound (1993)--a competitor to the Dolby Digital 5.1 standard.
Multi-Media Compact Disc (1994)--Sony's proprietary format for high-density optical storage, developed in conjunction with Phillips. Negotiations merged this format and Toshiba's Super Density disc format into what would become DVD.
Music Clip (1999)--Sony's first digital player, used ATRAC audio compression.
HiFD (1998)--a competitor to Iomega's Zip drive.
Memory Stick (1998)--proprietary memory device as a competitor to SD and Flash memory.
Super Audio CD (1999)--an optical disc format with higher fidelity than the CD.
PSP (2004)--Uses Universal Media Disc (UMD) media, a proprietary media format.

So, in your view (I'm extrapolating), any new media format is bad? Do you save things on 5.25" floppies? A few comments.

SDDS -- DTS was the only serious competitor to Dolby for personal use, since SDDS went into movie theaters though I'm not sure it's still out there (I think it is). DTS is superior to Dolby in my experience but died out because it used more space on the DVD. Was DTS bad, too?
MM CD -- Toshiba developed their own standard. Do you heap derision on them as well? Plus, we wouldn't have CDs without Sony and Philips working together. Damn that proprietary CD format!
HiFD -- As opposed to Iomega's equally propietary Zip drive and IBM's 2.88MB capacity floppy, you mean.
MS -- SD, CF, xD, SM, MMC...sure seems like a heap of standardization there.
SACD -- There's no competitor that I am aware of, or is there?

I certainly don't love everything that Sony does, but they are an innovator and have done a great deal in technology. I'm not an apologist for them, but someone acting as if Sony is completely worthless is frivolous. The Walkman was ingenious! ;)
 

Patt

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2000
5,288
2
81
But ... but ... didn't the porn industry support HD-DVD? Goddammit, now I'll have to buy a multi-play HD-DVD/Blu-Ray player :D