HC passes Senate

[Robor]

You're right, it has been, and you guys STILL don't get it. I fondly remember this quote:



So then, you guys could claim that no Republicans could stop you, but now, suddenly, they are the obstructionists? Even though the Democrats are the ones now sucking up to "evil" big insurance, which you guys lambasted Republicans for? The irony is just too delicious.

You guys are complaining that the bill has been 'watered down' to appease Republicans, but yet, no Republican will vote for this turd. So explain again who it was watered down for?

Sorry but as much as you'd like to think and preach 60 isn't some magical number that makes everyone in the party vote one way or the other.

 

[ProfJohn]

How convenient that you ignore the fact that LIEberman campaigned against the Democratic presidential candidate.

He was thrown out of the party back in 2006 long before he supported McCain.

 

[Robor]

He was thrown out of the party back in 2006 long before he supported McCain.

Apparently for good reason!

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Apparently for good reason!

Touche'

 

[Nemesis 1]

Edit to get correct quote

 

[Nemesis 1]

Then it doesn't take effect until Obama is relected so he can run of meme of HC reform before Americans relise what a disaster and expensive way this will effect their lives. Got to hand it Obama - devilishly clever.

QUOTE=Vic;29107915]"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."[/QUOTE]

Nice choice of words that would fit THE ONE perfectly. Its sad the things that will come to pass my heart is heavey with remorse, My mind is at odds with itself , My entire life I was hoping to avoid that which must be, Its hard to understand the one can not escape destiny , But your sufferring will last only a short time , but may equate to a lifetime from perspective, The realization that you have been decieved your entire lives will way heaveyly on your heart , May God have Mercy on your spirits and give you the strengh to see the lascivious ways that you live, I understand it was excrescence by the decievers that brought you to this place , Even tho you may become obstreperous in the coming time.Many shall lament without repentance, Take solicitous your brothers for they were decieved as you were. Listen take no action that may further jeopardize your spirit , Show strength in your resolve to understand the Living Word and do as he taught, He is the light of the world, Know this also that all that was done to you even tho decieved you had choice, Were as Years ago I choose to leave this earth and did enter the firmament and was turned back and choice was removed from me. I am truely sorry

 

[Darwin333]

No, the Republican caucus is just a lot less diverse than the Democratic one.

Nothing that a few hundred million dollars couldn't fix.

 

[Genx87]

Sorry but as much as you'd like to think and preach 60 isn't some magical number that makes everyone in the party vote one way or the other.

That still doesnt explain or answer what the bill was watered down for if no republican is going to vote for it. Clearly it was watered down for Democrats.

 

[Robor]

That still doesnt explain or answer what the bill was watered down for if no republican is going to vote for it. Clearly it was watered down for Democrats.

Because no DINO, I mean Blue Dog, was going to vote for it either.

Edit: And FWIW, I'm not that happy with how it's likely going to end up. :\

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

In all due respect to Common Courtesy, the statement of, "Forcing people to purchase something; penalizing people that have it and placing selective taxes to pay for it before delivering anything. That is Health Care Reform or is it Health Coverage Cost Shifting", may unwittingly raise some very good questions.

But like it or not, the USA has taken the first halting steps towards joining the rest of the world in socialized medicine.

When we have the prospect that even the super rich cannot purchase health miracles for them selves or their children, no matter how rich they are, we have to wonder about a health system for profit that denies even rudimentary health care for the economically disadvantaged. In the end, we will all die, be we rich or poor. But we are all Americans and should not basic health care be a right rather than the leading cause of personal bankruptcy?

And we must all ask a few more questions. (1) If that greedy doctor tries to go for the maximum bucks, they are now screwed now that the USA has JOINED ALL OTHER MAJOR INDUSTRIALIZED NATIONS IN SOCIALIZING MEDICINE, they can't exactly flee to Haiti to escape socialized medicine and go to a place where medicine is not socialized. (2) The health care cost shifting is in fact a compelling argument when many employers get a free ride. And that foolish US automotive industry that formerly paid more than their fair share of national health care costs are now in bankruptcy because of it. So is that the cure, opt out of our former employer based health care system, so no one who is gainfully employed can get health insurance? And those employers who still grants health care to their employees will be forced to opt out as well? (3) Can we have fond love for our private insurance companies and greedy hospitals who hold the uninsured upside down shaking them for every dime and forcing them into bankruptcy when private insurance companies at least prevented those abuses for only those they insured? Without the collective bargaining of insurance, Hospitals and other providers can and do charge outrageous prices on the order of triple or more for the same service. Is that fair? Yet its true.(4) And to all you young whippersnappers now blessed with the good health of youth, if you are fortunate to live long enough, you will need expensive health care to maintain your quality of life as you age. Do you really want to see all the economic gains you earned in a lifetime of hard work go to health care providers and not to your children and loved ones?

Its not a matter that we did not debate the health care issues long enough, US health care reform has been overdue for decades, we got a pile of dishonest debate again, and we got less than a best law as a result. And partisan politics is only a part of the problem. But make no mistake here, the health care reform train has already left the station in less than perfect mechanical shape. The health care reform train is never going to back up and return to the abuses we had, so we better all improve upon our health care reform trains mechanical shape if we want to have a better future.

And its no damn accident that every country that has gone to socialized medicine has never opted to go back to the stinking system the USA had.

Yeah, like medicaid is a great system, socialized as it is. The power mad politicians are going to fix it right? Yeah, like they fixed Afghanistan.

You don't know crap about health care. All you can effectively say is "France, France, France" meaning you expect the same people who wrote this cluster to tell providers how to sit up and do tricks. Your Religion of Government Healthcare has screwed the pooch for generations, and it's going to save us all.

You don't want better health care, you want to get even for some imagined wrong. Get those greedy doctors, get those greedy hospitals, and HAHAHAHA!!! try to get away.

It's all about punishment. Pathetic.

Why the hell should someone go to school for years, take on the weight of responsibilities you'll never have to bear, and get shit on?

Yet when you want to someone to save your life or the life of one you care about you'll want them to put everything aside for you. Why don't you tell them how you really feel on that day?

 

[werepossum]

Yeah, like medicaid is a great system, socialized as it is. The power mad politicians are going to fix it right? Yeah, like they fixed Afghanistan.

You don't know crap about health care. All you can effectively say is "France, France, France" meaning you expect the same people who wrote this cluster to tell providers how to sit up and do tricks. Your Religion of Government Healthcare has screwed the pooch for generations, and it's going to save us all.

You don't want better health care, you want to get even for some imagined wrong. Get those greedy doctors, get those greedy hospitals, and HAHAHAHA!!! try to get away.

It's all about punishment. Pathetic.

Why the hell should someone go to school for years, take on the weight of responsibilities you'll never have to bear, and get shit on?

Yet when you want to someone to save your life or the life of one you care about you'll want them to put everything aside for you. Why don't you tell them how you really feel on that day?

I'm guessing "entitled". LOL

 

[Robor]

I'm guessing "entitled". LOL

Seems this is one of the new buzz words. Keep pushing.

 

[werepossum]

Seems this is one of the new buzz words. Keep pushing.

Yes, new as in since the New Deal entitlement programs.

 

[Robor]

Yes, new as in since the New Deal entitlement programs.

Yep. We're on the road to socialism. Glenn Beck said so. Got it.

 

[Zebo]

Right left center everyone has to see fuckupness here. Obama just made vector even more slanted.

 

[cubby1223]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, we can not let that totally false statement stand without challenge.

Both Obama and the democrats in the house and Senate bent over backwards to get the GOP aboard early on. And early on many GOP members did propose various positive amendments that did add to the quality of an overall health care reform bill. The problem was, the very GOP members who proposed the positive amendments ended up voting everything down in a lock step manner.

Only at the later stages of the health care reform bill, when it became apparent that the GOP would support nothing in the ways of ANY change or reform, was all hope for the GOP abandoned. and can we then blame the democrats when they just did health care reform on their own.

Get em clue, non Prof John, its not that the dems excluded the GOP from participating, it was the GOP that refused to contribute or even debate honesty. The dems left the door wide open to the GOP but the GOP refused to come in, and in the same way, you can lead a horse to water but you can't force it to drink.

Hahahahahaha!!!!

I really shouldn't be surprised at your comments, you have always been one of the most bitter partisan minded people on this board...

 

[cubby1223]

Right left center everyone has to see fuckupness here. Obama just made vector even more slanted.

You do realize that graph is a pile of shit, right? What are you trying to prove? Americans tend to live more unhealthy lifestyles compared to the rest of the world, which has absolutely nothing to do with the availability of health care.

Where in this abomination of health care legislation do we force Americans to eat healthy and exercise properly? Oh right, the government will just start taxing everything they deem unhealthy. More taxes on alcohol, cigarettes, sugar - tanning beds are included in this new legislation. The state of Maine is considering putting cancer warnings on cell phones, just a matter of time before the liberals in charge decide to raise taxes on cell phones.

So to fix health care costs we can either (1) ration care, (2) have the government legislate what is unhealthy and enforce high taxes accordingly, or (3) leave the choices up to the individual to take the risks and accept the consequences.

I'll take (3) thank you very much.

 

[Robor]

You do realize that graph is a pile of shit, right? What are you trying to prove? Americans tend to live more unhealthy lifestyles compared to the rest of the world, which has absolutely nothing to do with the availability of health care.

Where in this abomination of health care legislation do we force Americans to eat healthy and exercise properly? Oh right, the government will just start taxing everything they deem unhealthy. More taxes on alcohol, cigarettes, sugar - tanning beds are included in this new legislation. The state of Maine is considering putting cancer warnings on cell phones, just a matter of time before the liberals in charge decide to raise taxes on cell phones.

So to fix health care costs we can either (1) ration care, (2) have the government legislate what is unhealthy and enforce high taxes accordingly, or (3) leave the choices up to the individual to take the risks and accept the consequences.

I'll take (3) thank you very much.

Reality hurts, huh?

 

[Generator]

Americans don't want to hear about consequences. Thats why politicians will always have a answer for the petty cowards in this country. The American Consumer gobbles up and up everything they can find and when the consequences come, they demand that they can get a new liver or whatever to continue the habits. Obviously the American way is unhealthy and sad. Oh well...

As for the bill I would like to say I would have voted no. But before I vote, I would of course would need to step back, look around, and take the pulse of the country. I acknowledge the stubborn streak of perceived freedoms. The right to make the wrong decision for yourself and your country again, and again, and again.

Its obvious that the system we have is insane. It's clear that if there are any people in this world that need government badly...it's a American. But with all that being said I would have voted down this bill. Do it right the first time or don't bother. Its unfortunate that there wasn't one Republican who didn't think single payer or the public option was a good thing.

I like to think there was at least a few Republicans who thought those things were a good idea. If not...well...my thoughts of a Republican can't get any lower. As for what we got, there may still be hope. During this year we have discovered the true nature of President Obama. Surprise, surprise he's a corporate stooge. I'm sincerely shocked how bought and paid for this man is, but in some weird way I can't help but see that the United States is on the road to real health reform.

When your typical American isn't beating his wife or passed out in a truck in a ditch they're going to notice the rising health care costs. It will be impossible to ignore, it will be suffocating how expensive this shit will become. Then there is the mandate to buy insurance. LOL. Obama and Democrates have approached this reform as some sort of diabolical villains. They have taken the pulse of the country and so polluted by it...have found a way to pass reform that Americans have no choice but to progress away from.

I can't tell you how un-American this mandate is. It just will not sit well with the country. The fat fucks, the bigots, the vicious capitalists...all of them, will have no choice but to want something more than this half-assed quasi socialism/capitalist galatic fuck ton disaster of a law. The people of this country will actually settle for the decency of universal health care. Thats the cynical approach of the Democrates! The deception over inhumane people wanting a humane thing like health care for all.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I'm guessing "entitled". LOL

Never try to read a tiny ipod screen in the morning

EDIT

He's the Dick Cheney of Health Care

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Americans don't want to hear about consequences. Thats why politicians will always have a answer for the petty cowards in this country. The American Consumer gobbles up and up everything they can find and when the consequences come, they demand that they can get a new liver or whatever to continue the habits. Obviously the American way is unhealthy and sad. Oh well...

As for the bill I would like to say I would have voted no. But before I vote, I would of course would need to step back, look around, and take the pulse of the country. I acknowledge the stubborn streak of perceived freedoms. The right to make the wrong decision for yourself and your country again, and again, and again.

Its obvious that the system we have is insane. It's clear that if there are any people in this world that need government badly...it's a American. But with all that being said I would have voted down this bill. Do it right the first time or don't bother. Its unfortunate that there wasn't one Republican who didn't think single payer or the public option was a good thing.

I like to think there was at least a few Republicans who thought those things were a good idea. If not...well...my thoughts of a Republican can't get any lower. As for what we got, there may still be hope. During this year we have discovered the true nature of President Obama. Surprise, surprise he's a corporate stooge. I'm sincerely shocked how bought and paid for this man is, but in some weird way I can't help but see that the United States is on the road to real health reform.

When your typical American isn't beating his wife or passed out in a truck in a ditch they're going to notice the rising health care costs. It will be impossible to ignore, it will be suffocating how expensive this shit will become. Then there is the mandate to buy insurance. LOL. Obama and Democrates have approached this reform as some sort of diabolical villains. They have taken the pulse of the country and so polluted by it...have found a way to pass reform that Americans have no choice but to progress away from.

I can't tell you how un-American this mandate is. It just will not sit well with the country. The fat fucks, the bigots, the vicious capitalists...all of them, will have no choice but to want something more than this half-assed quasi socialism/capitalist galatic fuck ton disaster of a law. The people of this country will actually settle for the decency of universal health care. Thats the cynical approach of the Democrates! The deception over inhumane people wanting a humane thing like health care for all.

So the bottom line is that you think Americans are a bunch of hicks which need government to run them. Then you go about complaining about how corrupt it is, then ask that they make even more binding legislation knowing full well what they are. You complain about health care costs, but know nothing about health care, the delivery system, or what's driving costs. Yet these people in power, who will always remain in control, are who you want to give irrevocable control of the most complex system which exists, to legislate in ignorance. They didn't EVER have this thing right because they didn't need to know more than write a couple thousand pages of law.

THAT is why ANY plan, single payer or not is going to be crap, just like the nearest thing to it that you seem to want, medicaid. That's a complete cluster and has been for half a century. That's what you are asking for. Oh maybe that's not what you want, but that's what you are going to get. You might as well have been a Rep arguing for Iraq, because you "know" how things are, but never bothered to actually do the work of getting a grasp before acting.

So get out of the ditch and stop beating your wife. Get off the "Eval corporate yada yada yada" and INSIST that your politicians whom you want to control us get a clue. This ain't France.

 

[Darwin333]

Americans don't want to hear about consequences. Thats why politicians will always have a answer for the petty cowards in this country. The American Consumer gobbles up and up everything they can find and when the consequences come, they demand that they can get a new liver or whatever to continue the habits. Obviously the American way is unhealthy and sad. Oh well...

As for the bill I would like to say I would have voted no. But before I vote, I would of course would need to step back, look around, and take the pulse of the country. I acknowledge the stubborn streak of perceived freedoms. The right to make the wrong decision for yourself and your country again, and again, and again.

Its obvious that the system we have is insane. It's clear that if there are any people in this world that need government badly...it's a American. But with all that being said I would have voted down this bill. Do it right the first time or don't bother. Its unfortunate that there wasn't one Republican who didn't think single payer or the public option was a good thing.

I like to think there was at least a few Republicans who thought those things were a good idea. If not...well...my thoughts of a Republican can't get any lower. As for what we got, there may still be hope. During this year we have discovered the true nature of President Obama. Surprise, surprise he's a corporate stooge. I'm sincerely shocked how bought and paid for this man is, but in some weird way I can't help but see that the United States is on the road to real health reform.

When your typical American isn't beating his wife or passed out in a truck in a ditch they're going to notice the rising health care costs. It will be impossible to ignore, it will be suffocating how expensive this shit will become. Then there is the mandate to buy insurance. LOL. Obama and Democrates have approached this reform as some sort of diabolical villains. They have taken the pulse of the country and so polluted by it...have found a way to pass reform that Americans have no choice but to progress away from.

I can't tell you how un-American this mandate is. It just will not sit well with the country. The fat fucks, the bigots, the vicious capitalists...all of them, will have no choice but to want something more than this half-assed quasi socialism/capitalist galatic fuck ton disaster of a law. The people of this country will actually settle for the decency of universal health care. Thats the cynical approach of the Democrates! The deception over inhumane people wanting a humane thing like health care for all.

As many words as you used to describe our corrupt ass system of politics you still think they are trying to pass healthcare "reform" because they are humane? You have got to be kidding me.

Don't get me wrong, they might be good intentioned sometimes but when it comes down to it they are self serving bastards. If the people happen to benefit from a bill then good for them but the real intent of it was to help a select few. Just like this healthcare bill is, just like the bazillion earmarks over the last decade or so since I have been paying attention. Just like darn near everything they do, there is always a "winner" and I bet the politicians who wrote/voted for the bill just happened to have received a few contributions (bribes) from the "winner".

What will really disgust you is how cheap some of them can be bribed, I mean campaign contributions to have your side heard. Why do you think they want to be on all of those committees? Your "opinion" is now worth a lot more. Some assholes made millions off the healthcare industry last year and yet they swear the millions of dollars has not or will not sway their votes. To depress you even more, the portion of the country that is in your club will defend you which basically cancels out the other clubs bitching. Of course they don't bitch very loud at all because they do exactly the same thing.

Why is it that we are actually surprised that this bill should be called the insurance company/Big Pharma bail out bill? While the rest of you are pointing fingers at the other guys club both of the clubs are laughing at you. As long as we refuse to hold our own parties accountable for their disgusting behavior we will continue having a corrupt system. We won't do that though because winning is more important than getting good legislation passed.

 

[werepossum]

Never try to read a tiny ipod screen in the morning

EDIT

He's the Dick Cheney of Health Care

It does me no good to try reading a tiny Ipod screen any time of the day, at least not without reading glasses and a strong magnifying glass.

I like that, the Dick Cheney of Health Care. "I shot a man in the face with a shotgun and HE is my friend; imagine what I'll to you if you piss me off."

Darwin, they aren't laughing at us, they're just drunk. LOL

 

[Genx87]

Because no DINO, I mean Blue Dog, was going to vote for it either.

Edit: And FWIW, I'm not that happy with how it's likely going to end up. :\

Well apparently they are or the thing wouldnt have the magical 60 votes.

 

[jonks]

Gingrich said the GOP will campaign in '10 and '12 on the repeal of this bill. I'm not sure how to spin as a positive stripping healthcare from 30 million people without sounding like an evil overlord. I think the Dems have the easier fight in that debate. Better get Frank Luntz on this one.