zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
- 111,143
- 30,099
- 146
They didn't show us the part where she wrote: "Put the cock to Brienne of Tarth, Knight of the Realm"
They didn't show us the part where she wrote: "Put the cock to Brienne of Tarth, Knight of the Realm"
purbeast0
No Lifer
- Sep 13, 2001
- 53,027
- 5,913
- 126
I wonder how many people made a Jamie dick joke when she was writing.
They didn't show us the part where she wrote: "Put the cock to Brienne of Tarth, Knight of the Realm"
I know I did to my wife.
woolfe9998
Lifer
- Apr 8, 2013
- 16,189
- 14,114
- 136
*all spoilers below*
Given that this ending is being savaged over at IMDB and elsewhere, I might be the only viewer who actually liked it. Bear in mind that I was disappointed with the vilification of Dany in the previous episode and was determined to hate the ending.
Bran makes perfect sense as king. Not because he has any qualities of a ruler. He has none. Bran is so pre-occupied with visions of the past and future that he has no real connection to the present or anyone in it. Which is why he's cold. The council scenes toward the end suggest who will really be running the Six Kingdoms: Tyrion and the council. They will rule while Bran pre-occupies himself with visions and takes long away trips communing with the forest. I think the show runners are suggesting that this moment is a turning point for Westeros, from absolute rule of a single person to whose whim they are subjected to, to rule by a benevolent council with a monarch who is more of a figurehead.
Harking back to Samwell's suggestion of democracy, one which could only be met with laughter in that world because it was too radical an idea, I think what we saw there at the end is a transitional form. Rule by any council is a step up from rule by a single person, because the requirement of consensus tends to mitigate the disastrous consequences of rule by whim or even insanity of a single person. Rule by council consisting entirely of benevolent people who want to serve the people is even better.
John would obviously have been the logical choice to be king, but the show runners chose to make it politically impossible. They probably thought it was too gooey an ending for their modern sensibilities. It wasn't a crowd pleasing choice, obviously, because no one got to see the fairy tale ending of good queen Dany ruling with golden boy John at her side, or even one or the other. Instead they chose a modern theme of moving away from monarchy, a theme which I don't think the vast majority of viewers even realize. Most people are just like "Bran king WTF that makes no sense."
But given their chosen theme that is exactly why he was the perfect choice. I don't believe he had any ambition to be ruler. I think he came to be king because he foresaw that he would be king. He thinks everything is destiny, which is why he sees everyone being exactly where they're supposed to be and doing exactly what they should be doing.
So far as John's fate, I would point out that nothing is preventing him from leaving the frozen wastes and heading south. His brother is king of the Six Kingdoms and his sister is queen of the north. The unsullied were the only ones who would object but they left Westeros in the end. He may choose to stay in the wastes and form a new civilization there, or not. The point is his future is wide open.
Other character arcs were brought to appropriate conclusions. Aria in particular had a satisfying ending. She is a free spirit never wanting to be bound by obligation or convention. She should go and explore uncharted territory. It also sets up a premise for what could be a great spinoff series.
Given that this ending is being savaged over at IMDB and elsewhere, I might be the only viewer who actually liked it. Bear in mind that I was disappointed with the vilification of Dany in the previous episode and was determined to hate the ending.
Bran makes perfect sense as king. Not because he has any qualities of a ruler. He has none. Bran is so pre-occupied with visions of the past and future that he has no real connection to the present or anyone in it. Which is why he's cold. The council scenes toward the end suggest who will really be running the Six Kingdoms: Tyrion and the council. They will rule while Bran pre-occupies himself with visions and takes long away trips communing with the forest. I think the show runners are suggesting that this moment is a turning point for Westeros, from absolute rule of a single person to whose whim they are subjected to, to rule by a benevolent council with a monarch who is more of a figurehead.
Harking back to Samwell's suggestion of democracy, one which could only be met with laughter in that world because it was too radical an idea, I think what we saw there at the end is a transitional form. Rule by any council is a step up from rule by a single person, because the requirement of consensus tends to mitigate the disastrous consequences of rule by whim or even insanity of a single person. Rule by council consisting entirely of benevolent people who want to serve the people is even better.
John would obviously have been the logical choice to be king, but the show runners chose to make it politically impossible. They probably thought it was too gooey an ending for their modern sensibilities. It wasn't a crowd pleasing choice, obviously, because no one got to see the fairy tale ending of good queen Dany ruling with golden boy John at her side, or even one or the other. Instead they chose a modern theme of moving away from monarchy, a theme which I don't think the vast majority of viewers even realize. Most people are just like "Bran king WTF that makes no sense."
But given their chosen theme that is exactly why he was the perfect choice. I don't believe he had any ambition to be ruler. I think he came to be king because he foresaw that he would be king. He thinks everything is destiny, which is why he sees everyone being exactly where they're supposed to be and doing exactly what they should be doing.
So far as John's fate, I would point out that nothing is preventing him from leaving the frozen wastes and heading south. His brother is king of the Six Kingdoms and his sister is queen of the north. The unsullied were the only ones who would object but they left Westeros in the end. He may choose to stay in the wastes and form a new civilization there, or not. The point is his future is wide open.
Other character arcs were brought to appropriate conclusions. Aria in particular had a satisfying ending. She is a free spirit never wanting to be bound by obligation or convention. She should go and explore uncharted territory. It also sets up a premise for what could be a great spinoff series.
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I don't think he does. His story is so incomplete and hacked up he makes sense only as a side character. He was a narrative tool to give backstory to things like the First Men and Jon's lineage. His warging ability was just abandoned at the end. What did his ravens even do at the battle of winterfell?
Also - what was the point of Varys writing those notes about Jon? Nothing I guess. Same with his talking to his new Little Birds. Ok.
woolfe9998
Lifer
- Apr 8, 2013
- 16,189
- 14,114
- 136
Did you read the rest of my post? I explained precisely why Bran's being essentially a non-entity is why he was the perfect choice. He's supposed to be no king at all. He's supposed to be a figurehead while the council rules.
zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
- 111,143
- 30,099
- 146
zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
- 111,143
- 30,099
- 146
Bran lacks humanity. Well, literally. Cold indifference isn't a good quality for a leader. **cough cough**
I don't think this makes sense, but I understood the idea to remove the nature of born leaders--we crush Dany's wheel, but we are also left with Little Finger's ladder. They still have a system that will be infinitely corruptible and it probably wouldn't be long before some devious asshole gets the Lords of the realm primarily on their side and bribes their way into a new Kingship. ...obviously that can't happen until Bran is gone. Which is weird. What is the point of a ruler that knows everything all the time? How do you reasonably judge their decisions? ...is Bran basically immortal now? Is that kinda the point? With that, I kinda get it. You can't really take his position if he sees you coming, and can probably make a wise decision on selecting new councils and, in this way, lack of humanity means he has no interest in power. He doesn't want the role but he knows he is the only person for the role. He isn't going to be consumed by power because outside of Drogon, I guess, he's the most powerful thing in Westeros. It looks like he plans to find that dragon and bring it back to King's landing or at least establish a proper detente.
Anyway, I don't really mind how things ended with where people went, but it was about 3 necessary episodes of material crammed into this episode. Jon taking care of Dany, increased drama with Tyrion in prison, other messes being cleaned up, should have been one episode. Dealing with succession and the new leadership model, another episode. Even a few rebellious lords here and there threatening their power, a bit more threat from the unsullied and the dothraki (both of whom seem to have respawned again?). Bran and Drogon, a bit more development of that whole 3 eyed raven thing, maybe the White Walkers and Children of the Forest, and of course Jon and his wildlings.
Instead, we got a 1980s montage of stealing the jock's Ferrari, chopping off the engine, sticking it on your shitty boat, and winning the island's annual yacht race in a span of 15 minutes.
z1ggy
Lifer
- May 17, 2008
- 10,004
- 63
- 91
That would have been cool but I think Drogon (and maybe the other 2 dragons, but particularly him) has more "human like" qualities due to his connection with Dany. I took the burning as his way of saying F YOU IRON THRONE, YOU CAUSED MY DANY TO DIE RAHHHH, and taking it out on the throne. I think he already knows/felt that Jon was part Targ. and even though he was probaby real pissed at Jon, couldn't/wouldn't be able to kill him. Think of him like a really smart dog.
I thought the ending was just okay. It was bitter sweet but overall happy, with most characters "Getting what they deserve". What sucks though is Jon does so many honorable things, makes so many hard choices and in the end will probably go down in history as a total nobody even though he is mostly responsible for saving the realm.
Also Bran played the longest Rick Roll in the history of any story LOL, what a legend.
purbeast0
No Lifer
- Sep 13, 2001
- 53,027
- 5,913
- 126
I felt the ending was a big fat MEH.
It wasn't terrible or anything, but it wasn't great. It was pretty forgettable and felt very forced and rushed, just like this whole season. There was very questionable stuff in the episode just like previous episodes, that simply defy logic and make zero sense. But at this point I just don't care and have accepted that this season went off the rails and these things are just par for the season.
I was happy when Jon stabbed Dany though, because I even said to my wife outloud when they kissed about how stupid and sappy that was, then he stabbed her and I was like, okay, I'm cool with that. There was a reason for this stupid sappy part.
I think the funniest part of the episode though was how Greyworm leveled up and now has teleportation skills.
It wasn't terrible or anything, but it wasn't great. It was pretty forgettable and felt very forced and rushed, just like this whole season. There was very questionable stuff in the episode just like previous episodes, that simply defy logic and make zero sense. But at this point I just don't care and have accepted that this season went off the rails and these things are just par for the season.
I was happy when Jon stabbed Dany though, because I even said to my wife outloud when they kissed about how stupid and sappy that was, then he stabbed her and I was like, okay, I'm cool with that. There was a reason for this stupid sappy part.
I think the funniest part of the episode though was how Greyworm leveled up and now has teleportation skills.
So with Bran, has no one questioned free will yet?
I give the finale a Meh as well. Nothing memorable or impactful as it played out. Whole final season was a waste, im glad its over now.
I give the finale a Meh as well. Nothing memorable or impactful as it played out. Whole final season was a waste, im glad its over now.
Agreed about the rush. They needed to make it more apparent that Jon doesn’t belong south of the wall.
All it would have took was some lines about a piece of him still being there or when he died at the wall he knew he could never truly come back. Or that “the wall was made to hold back the dead from the living, it’s time for me to take the last undead back there where it belongs”
All it would have took was some lines about a piece of him still being there or when he died at the wall he knew he could never truly come back. Or that “the wall was made to hold back the dead from the living, it’s time for me to take the last undead back there where it belongs”
- Oct 28, 1999
- 62,483
- 8,344
- 126
I was oddly at peace with the final episode. Tyrion is one of my favorite literary characters ever, and Dinklage has turned him into one of my favorite show characters. He got his appropriate air time last night and that probably helped a lot. As for specific character arcs and ends of their stories. There's really no ending. Just design space for spin offs/more writing. Whatever. It's done. Until it's not.
Newbian
Lifer
- Aug 24, 2008
- 24,768
- 864
- 126
Got a lot of redheads as we saw that were interested in following him it looked liked.
The night watch wont be so much as what they were before such as killing wildlings but probably more of a place to send undesirables and probably trading centers now that they are at peace.
They should have had him stab Dany with Dragonglass, she turns into the Night Queen, now time to rebuild the wall and restart
Homerboy
Lifer
- Mar 1, 2000
- 30,859
- 4,976
- 126
Got a lot of redheads as we saw that were interested in following him it looked liked.
The night watch wont be so much as what they were before such as killing wildlings but probably more of a place to send undesirables and probably trading centers now that they are at peace.
So yeah... he just bailed on his punishment. So much for his honor I guess.
And honestly, why would wildlings want to live north of the wall? They were given land and amnesty to live south if I recall. I feel like it's saying "No thanks, we really like it up here in Siberia." Nobody would choose that.
Obviously that's a minor quibble, but Jon basically deserting seems like it's not exactly what he'd do.
- Oct 28, 1999
- 62,483
- 8,344
- 126
Free men. They still see anything south of the wall as having to bend the knee to someone.
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