Hawken, holy gpu physx!

[Final8ty]

Pretty sure Huang browses our forum to decide his next move.

Yes and decides to screw people even more, you can moan all you like on forums it does not make any difference. the cards sell and that's all that matters, physx is not imperative to the prodcut.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

He found out I bought a 7950, that's why Hawken added file checking which is preventing Hybrid PhysX.

Devious this one is.

 

[omeds]

I do as i said i agree with some of your point but they are all so obvious that they did not need to be said.

How has anything you have said got to do with someone liking a specific effect and another person not, because that was my original point today, but between you and SirPauly, its now about its better than nothing, you can turn it off and if AMD did this and that which none of that would change preference for specific effects or its implementation, you like it or you don't it does not matter which company is doing it.

No I replied to:

"And saying something is better than nothing is purely making excuse for the lack of progress and is sending out the wrong message, " hey we are happy with anything you want to offer as long as uses it X,Y,Z, progress as slow as you like we are happy for just having X,Y,Z in the first place.
PhysX has moved monumentality slow and could be considered backwards since Cellfactor."

It IS better than nothing, and the reasons for stagnation are outlined above. Change one of those factors and we may see a large progression in PhysX effects. I'm sorry if you don't happen to like what they currently offer, for whatever reason, but many do.

 

[SirPauly]

NV decide where it goes not the market.

Cuda can be licensed - some just refuse to.

 

[Final8ty]

No I replied to:

"And saying something is better than nothing is purely making excuse for the lack of progress and is sending out the wrong message, " hey we are happy with anything you want to offer as long as uses it X,Y,Z, progress as slow as you like we are happy for just having X,Y,Z in the first place.
PhysX has moved monumentality slow and could be considered backwards since Cellfactor."

It IS better than nothing, and the reasons for stagnation are outlined above. Change one of those factors and we may see a large progression in PhysX effects. I'm sorry if you don't happen to like what they currently offer, for whatever reason, but many do.

Again have said it is better than nothing, some people do like it, which is obvious.
I would rather eat an avocado than starve to death but that does not mean i must like avocado's

You ain't going to get many people saying that they don't want to see improvements "Obvious"

Better than the the current alternative, which is nothing "Obvious" again.

So that means that's they are point which is being made because they are both "Obvious"

And yes its making excuse, not everyone relies on competition before they progress.

There are many reasons for stagnation [self motivation] competition is just the "Obvious one" but there is more to the story when it specifically comes to physx!

 

[Final8ty]

Cuda can be licensed - some just refuse to.

More changing the point.

NV decide where it goes not the market. NV does not have to licence it to anyone.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

There is only so much you can do with current hardware.

If it's any consolation full blown PhysX is a bit more taxing than TressFX and delivers far more bang for your performance loss buck.

Of course hair simulation isn't easy, but it's not like TressFX is very accurate in that regard either. Again, only so much you can do with current hardware.

 

[SirPauly]

There are many reasons for stagnation

What you define as stagnation -- I see growth potential and innovation with GPGPU moving forward.

 

[Final8ty]

What you define as stagnation -- I see growth potential and innovation with GPGPU moving forward.

I know how you see things.
But i don't see just existence as progress, what's done with it is what defines progress and not doing the same thing over and over again.
The physx effects are starting to look very samey.

 

[Final8ty]

There is only so much you can do with current hardware.

If it's any consolation full blown PhysX is a bit more taxing than TressFX and delivers far more bang for your performance loss buck.

Of course hair simulation isn't easy, but it's not like TressFX is very accurate in that regard either. Again, only so much you can do with current hardware.

None of them look accurate.
But that's does not bother me as long as they don't try to claim that it is, better looking yes and that's a matter of opinion.

 

[Carfax83]

What you define as stagnation -- I see growth potential and innovation with GPGPU moving forward.

I agree. I remember when Mafia 2 came out and NVidia claimed you could have up to 10,000 particles on the screen at any one time due to the PhysX effects.

Some of the games out now though are using WAY more particles, up to 100,000.

This is definitely progress, and although I wish NVidia would port PhysX to OpenCL so the AMD guys would quit whining, I'm glad NVidia is continuing to push the boundary.

There is tremendous potential for hardware accelerated physics, but it won't truly be tapped until NVidia and AMD are on the same page. It makes more sense for AMD to adopt PhysX because Bullet is not nearly as advanced and is way more under developed compared to PhysX.

 

[MrK6]

PhysX isn't going anywhere because nvidia boxed themselves into a corner. No developer is going to innovate with a proprietary technology that will only work on half the hardware of a small market (PC<<consoles). Nvidia doesn't seem to have the pull to do anything with it despite owning the technology for years now. The fact that they have to turn off physics and then use overblown implementations to try to market their product just shows how lacking of innovation and quality the product really is.

This really isn't an AMD vs. nvidia thing; just because people point out nvidia's failings doesn't mean they're automatically for AMD (I know that doesn't fit in with fanboy logic, but bear with me). But if people want to bring it up, TressFX is AMD's attempt and they got two things right A) it's open (any card can use it); B) it adds an effect we don't have but really need for modern games (dynamic hair). What's done with it and how it's adopted will be interesting to see.

 

[Xarick]

I have to beg to differ on dynamic hair. I don't really see the need.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

I have to beg to differ on dynamic hair. I don't really see the need.

Performance hit is pretty hard to justify on my 1250MHz 7950, for something that is about immersion it fails miserably. The shoulder force field, hair flipping or jumping for no apparent reason, only one char, only one ponytail, 20~ fps or worse when it's zoomed in on, total immersion breaker in cut senses when it starts to stutter. Hair changes color, white, jet black, brown, blonde, I've seen it all.

It has a long way to go to get the the level of PhysX, both in performance, effect impact, immersion, and quality.. They shouldn't even really be compared since it's like pee pew league vs pro.

 

[SirPauly]

The Hawken level, which we are demonstrating at PAX east and GDC 2013, is a proof of concept illustrating how destruction will work in Hawken. By utilizing APEX Destruction and GPU Rigid Body (GRB) simulation we are able to maximize the amount of simulated destruction, and create one of the richest destructible environments ever seen. This destruction will allow players to create their own paths through levels, set traps for enemies, and truly experience the awesome power of these Hawken mechs as rockets rip through walls and roads.

Key Features:

APEX Destruction – APEX Destruction provides both the tools and runtime libraries needed to integrate fully destructible environments into games. Using the tools the artists were able to quickly create fractured versions of the buildings and barriers for use in Hawken. APEX runtime handles all of the complexities of rocket blasts and impacts destructing the walls, as well as providing the ability to network the destruction in a multiplayer setting.
Destructible Environments – Destructible buildings, barriers, and roads. Mechs can shoot, run, and stomp through objects on a scale never witnessed before. No two gameplays will be alike as players rip through the environment. When a rocket hits a wall it won’t leave a decal, it will leave a hole.
Emerging Cover – Cover is created by the wall fragments left behind after destruction. Punch a hole through a wall and use it to snipe other players. Watch your cover disappear in shower of debris as rockets from enemy mechs slam into it.
Networking – Destructible environments present some unique challenges when it comes to keeping clients in sync. The level of complexity becomes even greater when you consider the scalability of destruction across clients. APEX Destruction handles this by ensuring that the static portions of the destructible objects stay in sync across all clients (regardless of compute HW), thus providing matching cover for everyone in the game.
Scalability and GPU Rigid Bodies– APEX Destruction allows us to scale the amount of rigid body simulation to meet the capability of client machines. This means that players will see appropriate amounts of rigid body simulation based on what their hardware can handle. High-end users with CUDA capable hardware can enable GPU Rigid Body Simulation (GRB) and enjoy an unprecedented amount of destruction simulation as thousands of pieces from walls tumble to the ground and interact with the mechs.

http://alienbabeltech.com/abt/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=29599&p=86724#p86726


Redefining game-play potential?

 

[Plimogz]

That sounds very interesting and I'm looking forward to learning more.

 

[SirPauly]

APEX will help Hawken to redefine Destructible Environment

http://physxinfo.com/news/10914/apex-will-help-hawken-to-redefine-destructible-environment/

Hawken - Destructible Level prototype

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg5OsMdtJMA&feature=player_embedded

Impressive video!

 

[Lonbjerg]

APEX will help Hawken to redefine Destructible Environment

http://physxinfo.com/news/10914/apex-will-help-hawken-to-redefine-destructible-environment/

Hawken - Destructible Level prototype

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg5OsMdtJMA&feature=player_embedded

Impressive video!

Death to campers!

I like this though:

As something previously seen only in Tech demos, fully destructible environment was never never done in PhysX games before, at least not at this scale.

CellFactor - Revolution was ahead of it's time for sure

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEaw3RugY1E

 

[Reticula]

CellFactor - Revolution was ahead of it's time for sure

It was not, unfortunately.
That video is a bogus, actual release of Cellfactor: Revolution has almost empty levels with a bunch of boxes laying in the corners (just compare actual level with one in the trailer). Physics was buggy, objects were jumping around and getting stuck in the floor. I was so pissed

Cellfactor: Combat Training, in turn, was a really nice demo.

As for destruction, Breach was much closer, but yet again "not at this scale"

 

[geniusloci]

Trust me, it's already too hard to keep track of much of what is happening in Hawken. Even if you have physx, you want to turn it off. heh.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Performance hit is pretty hard to justify on my 1250MHz 7950, for something that is about immersion it fails miserably. The shoulder force field, hair flipping or jumping for no apparent reason, only one char, only one ponytail, 20~ fps or worse when it's zoomed in on, total immersion breaker in cut senses when it starts to stutter. Hair changes color, white, jet black, brown, blonde, I've seen it all.

It has a long way to go to get the the level of PhysX, both in performance, effect impact, immersion, and quality.. They shouldn't even really be compared since it's like pee pew league vs pro.

You haven't played Tomb Raider post patches have you? They drastically improved it in the last 2 patches. More weight, better collisions.

 

[AnandThenMan]

APEX will help Hawken to redefine Destructible Environment

http://physxinfo.com/news/10914/apex-will-help-hawken-to-redefine-destructible-environment/

That looks terrible.

 

[Final8ty]

That looks terrible.

I like the destruction, but the pieces move like they made of styrofoam at times and it looks like you cant take physical damage from them, something which you can in BF3, what a shame .

 

[HurleyBird]

Seems like a pretty fake looking implementation, but at least they tried to do something like this. The general PhsyX (non-gameplay) effects on the other hand, are quite good looking.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

You haven't played Tomb Raider post patches have you? They drastically improved it in the last 2 patches. More weight, better collisions.

If it was patched as of last week, then yeah I have.

I actually finished the last 25% of the game with my 9800GT and felt almost retarded for spending so much money to play something a $20 card can. :$