JD50
Lifer
- Sep 4, 2005
- 11,631
- 2,015
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I'm trying to think of something this important that takes less effort than swinging by Walgreens and getting a shot once or twice a year and I'm drawing a blank.
I'm trying to think of something this important that takes less effort than swinging by Walgreens and getting a shot once or twice a year and I'm drawing a blank.
Lanyap
Elite Member
- Dec 23, 2000
- 8,106
- 2,157
- 136
Not a big deal as far as convenience. It's like getting the flu shot twice a year. I already get blood drawn for tests several times a year. Besides, my wife is immunocompromised and her 93 yo mother lives with us so I am not taking any chances. This won't last forever, maybe a couple of years. If stupid COVIDIOT antivaxxers would get their heads out of their asses and get vaccinated it would probably slow down sooner.
SteveGrabowski
Diamond Member
- Oct 20, 2014
- 6,858
- 5,799
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It likely will last forever just like the common colds. Well not forever, just only as long as the human species exists most likely. I fully expect to be taking boosters every six months as long as I'm walking this planet.
It is kind of amazing how much he recouls at the thought of getting a quick, easy, and free vaccine. As I saw someone else say I used to feel the same way... when I was six.
From what I've read it's pretty simple - the rank is:
1) Moderna
2) Pfizer
3) J&J
Forget mixing and matching, just try to get them in that order of preference regardless of what you've had before.
Well here in Canada, we are case study for the world. We did 2 policy differences. We delayed our second doses to get as many first doses done first. And because of AZ controversy and shortage of vaccine, we did mix dosing. But recent studies have shown better results because of these two policies.
Homerboy
Lifer
- Mar 1, 2000
- 30,856
- 4,974
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Great read. Doesn't specifically answer the question on the boosters (which is addressed in the article) but damn interesting read nonetheless. Thanks!
Well we’re still administrating first and second doses 77/73 so boosters still a while away from consideration here. But if many Canadians have 3-4 months between doses, unlikely we’ll need boosters until spring of 22.
I've been fully vaxxd, because I am fit with no underlying conditions I will probably wait for a booster until all the vulnerable groups and vocations with public exposure etc settle out b4 I get one..
dullard
Elite Member
- May 21, 2001
- 25,055
- 3,408
- 126
The best option is to get what you can get. They all work well. But data is beginning to come out that mixing is better. That just makes sense, the more different exposures your immune system has, the more it has to focus on conserved viral areas that don't mutate much if at all.
"homologous boost increased neutralizing antibody titers 4.2-20-fold whereas heterologous boost increased titers 6.2-76-fold."
Heterologous SARS-CoV-2 Booster Vaccinations – Preliminary Report
Background While Coronavirus disease 2019 (Covid-19) vaccines are highly effective, breakthrough infections are occurring. Booster vaccinations have recently received emergency use authorization (EUA) for certain populations but are restricted to homologous mRNA vaccines. We evaluated homologous...
"But now, for the first time, researchers have shown that such ‘mix and match’ regimens are highly effective at preventing COVID-19 — roughly matching or even exceeding the performance of mRNA vaccines." Note: this study was with AstraZeneca not J&J.
Mix-and-match COVID vaccines ace the effectiveness test
Combining two different COVID-19 vaccines provides protection on par with that of mRNA vaccines — including protection against the Delta variant.
www.nature.com
"Remarkably, the median titer of these individuals was 3.9-fold higher than the median titer of 14 individuals vaccinated with BNT162b2 in a homologous regimen (709; range 305-1,806) suggesting a stronger humoral protection after a heterologous vaccination"
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Correct me if I’m wrong but it looks to me like what I’m seeing in table 2 indicates that the superiority of the heterologous signal is coming almost entirely from the fact that a J&J booster for people who already got J&J does not appear to be very effective.The best option is to get what you can get. They all work well. But data is beginning to come out that mixing is better. That just makes sense, the more different exposures your immune system has, the more it has to focus on conserved areas that don't mutate much if at all.
"homologous boost increased neutralizing antibody titers 4.2-20-fold whereas heterologous boost increased titers 6.2-76-fold."
Heterologous SARS-CoV-2 Booster Vaccinations – Preliminary Report
Background While Coronavirus disease 2019 (Covid-19) vaccines are highly effective, breakthrough infections are occurring. Booster vaccinations have recently received emergency use authorization (EUA) for certain populations but are restricted to homologous mRNA vaccines. We evaluated homologous...www.medrxiv.org
"But now, for the first time, researchers have shown that such ‘mix and match’ regimens are highly effective at preventing COVID-19 — roughly matching or even exceeding the performance of mRNA vaccines."
Mix-and-match COVID vaccines ace the effectiveness test
Combining two different COVID-19 vaccines provides protection on par with that of mRNA vaccines — including protection against the Delta variant.
dullard
Elite Member
- May 21, 2001
- 25,055
- 3,408
- 126
You are correct that getting J&J twice has a slightly lower antibody response than the other combinations. But, I think the "does not appear to be very effective" portion of your comment is a bit misleading. 86% of the people that got two J&J shots had at least a 2-fold increase (in other words: a 100 times increase) in antibody levels. And if you look at the individual points on your graph, it mostly is one person that brought the whole curve down. I agree that it is less effective to have two J&J shots, but it is still effective.
I think a slightly better graph to use is day 15 data on slide 9 here: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-10-20-21/04-COVID-Atmar-508.pdf That is from the same study that you linked (in fact that is slide 8). I think that slide 9 is both more clear and has more data (compares the antibody response for the wildtype, alpha variant, and delta variant). I use day 15 solely since they don't yet have all day 29 data in. The antibody response as measured by Area Under the Curve (AUC) is 30000 to 50000 on every single combination, except the dual J&J version. But the area under the curve is still about 10000 for that dual J&J combo at day 15. And more importantly, the confidence intervals for 8 out of 9 combinations overlap (except the dual J&J option). Meaning, that it is statistically undeterminable from that data if any combination is best (except the dual J&J option). That is why I started with just get what you can get. They all work. Dual J&J works a bit less, but it still works.
woolfe9998
Lifer
- Apr 8, 2013
- 16,188
- 14,091
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So a little update on my post from a couple months ago about an employee of my wife who refused to get vaccinated. This is the one my wife offered $1000 bonus to get vaccinated, the one who is always complaining of being broke. Well she is largely apolitical but her parents are evidently Trumpie. She must have listened to them. Bad idea.
She has now tested positive and is symptomatic. She texted my wife and asked about her sick leave, of which she only has one week remaining. But she is symptomatic and you can remain contagious until up to two weeks after symptoms go away. So even if her symptoms clear up tomorrow, she still can't come back to work for two more weeks. Especially since my wife has an estate practice with elderly clients coming in daily. She is now worried about not getting paid because she needs the money.
So not only did she pass up a $1000 bonus, but now she's not getting paid for at least a week, more if her symptoms last longer than a few days. That's in addition to whatever serious health risks she is facing.
We told her the vaccination was safe. I personally e-mailed her several articles addressing every concern she had. Next time she should ask where her parents are getting their information from.
She has now tested positive and is symptomatic. She texted my wife and asked about her sick leave, of which she only has one week remaining. But she is symptomatic and you can remain contagious until up to two weeks after symptoms go away. So even if her symptoms clear up tomorrow, she still can't come back to work for two more weeks. Especially since my wife has an estate practice with elderly clients coming in daily. She is now worried about not getting paid because she needs the money.
So not only did she pass up a $1000 bonus, but now she's not getting paid for at least a week, more if her symptoms last longer than a few days. That's in addition to whatever serious health risks she is facing.
We told her the vaccination was safe. I personally e-mailed her several articles addressing every concern she had. Next time she should ask where her parents are getting their information from.
That is not correct, according to CDC
"For most children and adults with symptomatic SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, infection, isolation, and precautions can be discontinued 10 days after symptom onset and after resolution of fever for at least 24 hours and improvement of other symptoms. "
"For people who are infected but asymptomatic (never develop symptoms), isolation and precautions can be discontinued 10 days after the first positive test. "
link
woolfe9998
Lifer
- Apr 8, 2013
- 16,188
- 14,091
- 136
Good to know. My wife found an article which suggested a longer period. Still, I think she's going to want to exceed that recommendation given the elderly clients she has in her office.
hal2kilo
Lifer
- Feb 24, 2009
- 23,418
- 10,304
- 136
I understand (and applaud) your abundance of concern. However, I would advise your wife to be careful about forcing her employee to remain absent longer than the CDC guidlines, especially if she lacks enough sick leave to keep getting paid. I am not a lawyer, but I would think your wife could end up with legal problems if she enforces an unpaid absence past the CDC guidlines.
Edit: here is a link to the official CDC guidlines, updated 09.14.21. There is a case for 20 day quarantine, but only if the person was "severely ill". link
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Just got my Moderna booster yesterday. The Walgreens in our area are using the same brand for the booster as for the original vaccination. I am fine with that, since Moderna appears to be the most effective.
Have to admit, I was somewhat apprehensive about side effects for the booster, since my wife had a few problems (sore arm as usual, but also rash and reddened skin, quite tired) after her booster. Fortunately, I probably had less side effects after the booster than for any other of the shots. Worst I had with any of them was a sore arm, but it actually was less with the booster than with the original shots.
Edit: I am so frustrated with the "dont want to put something I dont know about into my body" anti vaxers. They better not be smokers, better not drink, better not eat processed food or commercial meat if they are so concerned about what they put into their bodies.
Have to admit, I was somewhat apprehensive about side effects for the booster, since my wife had a few problems (sore arm as usual, but also rash and reddened skin, quite tired) after her booster. Fortunately, I probably had less side effects after the booster than for any other of the shots. Worst I had with any of them was a sore arm, but it actually was less with the booster than with the original shots.
Edit: I am so frustrated with the "dont want to put something I dont know about into my body" anti vaxers. They better not be smokers, better not drink, better not eat processed food or commercial meat if they are so concerned about what they put into their bodies.
balloonshark
Diamond Member
- Jun 5, 2008
- 6,317
- 2,718
- 136
My nephew got covid and had to be quarantined for 10 days. My sister didn't test positive so they told her to quarantine for 20 days. She has tested negative 3 times but she still has to quarantine. I guess they are assuming that she might catch covid on the 10th day of my nephew's quarantine so she has wait 10 more days after that date.
It seems pretty clear that per current CDC guidelines your sister only needed to quarantine for 10 days. It also seems very unlikely that someone will test positive from that infection after 10 days.
woolfe9998
Lifer
- Apr 8, 2013
- 16,188
- 14,091
- 136
Well, she has an average of two 80+ year old clients come into the office daily. That said, I showed her the CDC link last night and she likely won't keep her out much beyond. It says one day after cessation of symptoms. She may keep her out for three.
All of this remains academic while she still has symptoms, of course. This could be over in a day or two, or she could end up in the ICU for a month.
Fenixgoon
Lifer
- Jun 30, 2003
- 31,548
- 9,907
- 136
Should he have made it January 6 instead to meme on the insurrectionists?
www.cnn.com
Vaccine rule for larger employers, federal contractors and certain health care workers to take effect January 4
The Biden administration announced Thursday that its vaccine rules applying to private businesses with 100 or more employees, certain health care workers and federal contractors will take effect January 4.
www.cnn.com
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