Have you ever thought Creationism is something we simply cannot comprehend because of our LACK of scientific knowledge?

[MaxDSP]

I thought Al Gore invented the universe?

 

[Yzzim]

Originally posted by: MaxDSP
I thought Al Gore invented the universe?

zing!

lol

 

[JustAnAverageGuy]

It (Religion) is the opium of the people

I may not agree with everything that man said, but that statement makes pretty good sense to me.

However, that was almost completely off topic.

Personally, I don't really care HOW it started, I mean if we know that's nice too, but I don't lose sleep over it.

 

[Martin]

Creationism,"intelligent design"

or any other form all boils down to one simple, idiotic concept:
if I can't explain it, it's god

Ask a reasonable person: "Where did the universe come from?" and he'll say "The big bang, however it is not currently known where or how the BB orignated." Ask a creationist and he'll say "the big bang, which was in turn created by god".
The same thing goes for evolution, creation of life and lots of other things.

Here is a nice, simple concept that should replace the above:
if you can't explain something, don't make assinine assumptions and say that you don't know"

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
Creationism,"intelligent design"

or any other form all boils down to one simple, idiotic concept:
if I can't explain it, it's god

Ask a reasonable person: "Where did the universe come from?" and he'll say "The big bang, however it is not currently known where or how the BB orignated." Ask a creationist and he'll say "the big bang, which was in turn created by god".
The same thing goes for evolution, creation of life and lots of other things.

Here is a nice, simple concept that should replace the above:
if you can't explain something, don't make assinine assumptions and say that you don't know"

But...but...you can't prove God doesn't exist, therefore, he must surely exist!

 

[Yzzim]

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
Creationism,"intelligent design"

or any other form all boils down to one simple, idiotic concept:
if I can't explain it, it's god

Ask a reasonable person: "Where did the universe come from?" and he'll say "The big bang, however it is not currently known where or how the BB orignated." Ask a creationist and he'll say "the big bang, which was in turn created by god".
The same thing goes for evolution, creation of life and lots of other things.

Here is a nice, simple concept that should replace the above:
if you can't explain something, don't make assinine assumptions and say that you don't know"

AFAIK Evolution is still a theory for a reason.

if I can't explain it, it's god

If Evolutionists can't explain it, it took millions and millions of years.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Yzzim

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
Creationism,"intelligent design"

or any other form all boils down to one simple, idiotic concept:
if I can't explain it, it's god

Ask a reasonable person: "Where did the universe come from?" and he'll say "The big bang, however it is not currently known where or how the BB orignated." Ask a creationist and he'll say "the big bang, which was in turn created by god".
The same thing goes for evolution, creation of life and lots of other things.

Here is a nice, simple concept that should replace the above:
if you can't explain something, don't make assinine assumptions and say that you don't know"

AFAIK Evolution is still a theory for a reason.

In the world of science, a theory is an hypothesis that has been thoroughly tested and accepted by the scientific community. If evolution is "just" a theory, then gravity is "just" a theory as well.

if I can't explain it, it's god

If Evolutionists can't explain it, it took millions and millions of years.

Pretty much, yeah. Too bad simple minds cannot grasp that concept.

 

[Yzzim]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Yzzim

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
Creationism,"intelligent design"

or any other form all boils down to one simple, idiotic concept:
if I can't explain it, it's god

Ask a reasonable person: "Where did the universe come from?" and he'll say "The big bang, however it is not currently known where or how the BB orignated." Ask a creationist and he'll say "the big bang, which was in turn created by god".
The same thing goes for evolution, creation of life and lots of other things.

Here is a nice, simple concept that should replace the above:
if you can't explain something, don't make assinine assumptions and say that you don't know"

AFAIK Evolution is still a theory for a reason.

In the world of science, a theory is an hypothesis that has been thoroughly tested and accepted by the scientific community. If evolution is "just" a theory, then gravity is "just" a theory as well.

if I can't explain it, it's god

If Evolutionists can't explain it, it took millions and millions of years.

Pretty much, yeah. Too bad simple minds cannot grasp that concept.

Isn't that what the OP'er was talking about in regard to Creationism?

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: Yzzim
If Evolutionists can't explain it, it took millions and millions of years.

As far as researchers are concerned its "If I can't explain it, then I must modify the theory or come up with a new one". Much like the rest of science.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Yzzim

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Yzzim

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
Creationism,"intelligent design"

or any other form all boils down to one simple, idiotic concept:
if I can't explain it, it's god

Ask a reasonable person: "Where did the universe come from?" and he'll say "The big bang, however it is not currently known where or how the BB orignated." Ask a creationist and he'll say "the big bang, which was in turn created by god".
The same thing goes for evolution, creation of life and lots of other things.

Here is a nice, simple concept that should replace the above:
if you can't explain something, don't make assinine assumptions and say that you don't know"

AFAIK Evolution is still a theory for a reason.

In the world of science, a theory is an hypothesis that has been thoroughly tested and accepted by the scientific community. If evolution is "just" a theory, then gravity is "just" a theory as well.

if I can't explain it, it's god

If Evolutionists can't explain it, it took millions and millions of years.

Pretty much, yeah. Too bad simple minds cannot grasp that concept.

Isn't that what the OP'er was talking about in regard to Creationism?

No. In fact, the OP made a completely ridiculous statement:

I've been thinking maybe creationism is something we cannot explain because our knowledge is very lmited. As stated before, what the hell do we know-- as we love to say-- scientifically? Our science's take on our origin becomes all theories, gone are the scientific procedures and hard facts

Yeah...decades of research and experimentation are summarily tossed out by the OP because us simple-minded humans cannot grasp Creationism.

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Yzzim

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Yzzim

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
Creationism,"intelligent design"

or any other form all boils down to one simple, idiotic concept:
if I can't explain it, it's god

Ask a reasonable person: "Where did the universe come from?" and he'll say "The big bang, however it is not currently known where or how the BB orignated." Ask a creationist and he'll say "the big bang, which was in turn created by god".
The same thing goes for evolution, creation of life and lots of other things.

Here is a nice, simple concept that should replace the above:
if you can't explain something, don't make assinine assumptions and say that you don't know"

AFAIK Evolution is still a theory for a reason.

In the world of science, a theory is an hypothesis that has been thoroughly tested and accepted by the scientific community. If evolution is "just" a theory, then gravity is "just" a theory as well.

if I can't explain it, it's god

If Evolutionists can't explain it, it took millions and millions of years.

Pretty much, yeah. Too bad simple minds cannot grasp that concept.

Isn't that what the OP'er was talking about in regard to Creationism?

No. In fact, the OP made a completely ridiculous statement:

I've been thinking maybe creationism is something we cannot explain because our knowledge is very lmited. As stated before, what the hell do we know-- as we love to say-- scientifically? Our science's take on our origin becomes all theories, gone are the scientific procedures and hard facts

Yeah...decades of research and experimentation are summarily tossed out by the OP because us simple-minded humans cannot grasp Creationism.

Yep. The bullsh!t some guy came up with thousands of years ago is too advanced for us poor dumb folks.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Why can't people consider the fscking questions people ask without attacking them?

Personally, I want either religion threads banned entirely, or bring back the gay bashing ones.

 

[conjur]

Understanding Evolution


This is *excellent* site for a quick understanding of evolution. It also has an excellect section dealing with the common misconceptions Creationists toss out to try and debunk evolution by twisting and spinning facts into absurdities.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Yzzim

Originally posted by: halik
no...
theres scientific evidence supporting evolution/big bag (background microwave radioation, the cooling of universe etc.). There is no evidence for creationism

evidence > no evidence


Big bag has credibility due to that evidence. Creation has just as much credibility as any theory that you can think of the moment ("halik made all that is" for example )

So you're saying that if God created the universe there wouldn't be background microwave radioation? The universe wouldn't be cooling?

It's almost humorous to read all these "facts" on the big bang, when God could have created the same exact thing.

assuming that got created the big bang, you would indeed have the predicted amount of background radiation. Otherwise (dealing with the 7 day thing), there would be no reason for the exact amount of background radiation and no reason for the universe to expand....


Also to reply for the original topic. Taking in account all the possible unforseen evidence, any theory is just as possible as any other one, since they are equaly probable to have unforseen evidence. But that doesnt really lead us anywhere since you can argue that about anything.

Analogy:
Theres 99.999% chance that when i walk outta my house tomorrow, i will not get hit by a bus.
But taking in account the possbility of unforseen evidence (say they built a highway right in front of my door), its equally possible that i WILL get hit by a bus. So my new odds are 50/50 in reference to getting hit by a bus. Now what does the new probability tell me in terms of practical use? Should i stay home tomorrow, because taken in account the unforseen evidence, theres 50% chance ill end up roadkill?

 

[WHipLAsh13]

Originally posted by: Sifl
God is dead.

And no one cares?

Well said Mr Reznor.

 

[DrPizza]

Some of you really don't have a good idea of what "theory" means in science. I'll just toss out a favorite source that I agree with wholeheartedly:

just a theory

The "just a theory" mantra confuses the scientific definition of "theory" with the popular usage; it is used to discredit well-established scientific principles

...

The word "theory" has several meanings. The Concise Oxford Dictionary, for instance, lists five. Here are two definitions derived from several sources.

Scientific definition: a theory is a system of general principles that explains related experimental observations.

Common usage definition: a theory is an unproved idea or hypothesis, or a fanciful speculation.

Correct usage: "I reckon Don Bradman would score just as well against modern bowlers, but it's just a theory." Creationists, however, abuse the term to pretend that evolutionary theory is just fanciful speculation.

We can never know for sure how well Don Bradman would fare in the modern game of cricket, so the idea that he would be as good today is "just a theory". But the Theory of Evolution is a solid, evidence-rich system of knowledge, just like Quantum Theory, Relativity Theory, and Thermodynamic Theory.

The confusion of the two definitions is akin to mixing up "showing an interest" in opening a bank account with "paying interest" to a bank account. And then skipping loan repayments.

"Just a theory" is a jackass mantra because it can be used by any jackass to dismiss the work of the most enlightened and intelligent thinkers. It is not confined to Creationists. You can hear the mantra being chanted by perpetual motion inventors ("The Second Law of Thermodynamics is just a theory"), circle squarers ("Euclidian geometry is just a theory"), modern etherists ("Special Relativity is just a theory"), Creationists again ("The Big Bang is just a theory"), and anyone else who feels persecuted by overwhelming evidence.

Furthermore, I think your problem with understanding the big bang theory, evolution, etc. is your lack of scientific knowledge. I'd also like to point out that the Catholic Church *accepts* the big bang theory. I'll attempt to fill one of the gaps: you don't believe that something can just suddenly pop into existence. That is erroneous. Matter can and does pop into and out of existence all the time. At the sub atomic level, space is a chaotic sea of particles popping into and out of existence. Scientific experiments, while unable to observe these particles directly, observes the interaction these particles have on the matter around us, giving us very clear evidence for their existence.

 

[Kadarin]

Science is not a "thing" nor is it a belief system. It is simply and only a process, defined by the Scientific Method. In the process of science, "I don't know" is a perfectly valid answer. "Why did the Big Bang occur?" "We don't know yet." There is nothing wrong with that.

Creationism, on the other hand, is a bunch of made-up sh*t designed to try to answer such questions, based on the assumption that God exists in the classic Judeo-Christian model.

 

[Draknor]

I understand what the OP is getting at - but to look at the discussion from a scientific / rational perspective, consider the following...

You've got to define your variables and their contexts. So for starters, you have to define God - what is God? Then, if you are arguing for Creationism as a literal interpretation of the Bible, you have to define what measure a "day" is - as measured by one rotation of the Earth? Or "day" as measured by one rotation of another celestial body? And of course you have to define the process of "creation" - are you defining it as a fully grown homo sapien, in physical form, suddenly materializing out of empty space?

I personally think there are many ways you could interpret the Creation words in the Bible that would fit scientific scrutiny. Personally, I think a literal interpretation of the words is quite naive, considering how flexible the interpretations of words can be.

 

[Martin]

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/misconceps/images/misconceptions_flawedtheory.gif


priceless.

 

[zener]

This is a very excellent link because it uses people who are believers but are scientific. It also has people from all walks of the spectrum. It has been very useful for myself and for my kids.
http://www.talkorigins.org/
I was raised as a fundamentalist and have always had to constantly search out truth from junk. I find that the overwhelming majority of creationists have a problem with good science. Unfortunately, I am embarressed by their poor logic and constant snickering at people who don't espouse any thinking other than theirs which has turned me away from them and has forced me to do a lot of my own research which is good. Everyone has to do their homework and come up with their own conclusions.
Hope this link helps as it has helped me.

 

[zener]

Conjur,
I think that the site you provided could be misleading. I read the very first items and found my self disagreeing with their thinking, e.g. scientific thinking seldom concludes and never proves. I am not quite sure what exactly they are trying to say but it seems somehow flawed. The site seems also very simplistic and too vague. I would try the talk origins site. I think it contains a more precise and professional discussion on the topics of evolution/creationism.

 

[MAME]

there is no god

why is this so hard to understand?! :|:|:|

 

[upsciLLion]

Oh thank G-d conjur has decided to grace this thread with his wise and omniscient presence. The anti-religious, theist-patronizing minority would be woefully under-represented had he not arrived.

 

[wviperw]

Originally posted by: Sifl
God is dead.

"Nietzsche is dead." -God

Also, for those of you who instantaneously disregard any idea/post containing the words "creation", "god", or "religion", yet still criticize people for their "blind faith," it is a two sided coin:

"Doubt is the necessary tool of knowledge." -Tillich

 

[miniMUNCH]

The shear ignorance of people who argue about creation vs. evolution (and I mean both parties) makes me cry.

Have fun folks.