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Have you ever been involved with or affected by a cult?
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AreaCode707
Lifer
Please, I didn't ask you to say anything about religions as cults. I wanted to know if you personally had some part of your life touched by an organization that is widely recognized and labeled as a cult. That does not include major world religions like Christianity or Islam.
Dr. Detroit
Diamond Member
Affected by Mormons, everyday!
Sure they may call it a religion but its a feakin Cult!
I've done my research, it's a CULT! Only reason people call it a religion now is that they have so many supposed members throughout the world.
Sure they may call it a religion but its a feakin Cult!
I've done my research, it's a CULT! Only reason people call it a religion now is that they have so many supposed members throughout the world.
AreaCode707
Lifer
I am respectfully asking you not to start a flamewar in my thread. I clarified my question in my response to you - I am asking about organizations that are typically regarded as "cults" rather than as "religions". For instance, a newspaper would not write about Hinduism, Islam, or Christianity as a cult, but they would write about Heaven's Gate as a cult.
Gigantopithecus
Diamond Member
You have clearly been involved with and/or affected by a cult. 🙂
Wallydraigle
Banned
Could we keep the anti-religious crap out of this one thread? This could be an interesting thread, as opposed to most of the stuff that gets posted here (yes, I'm guilty of that too 😱).
HotChic, would you consider groups like Jehovah's Witnesses a cult, or not. I personally would not, but there are some who do.
HotChic, would you consider groups like Jehovah's Witnesses a cult, or not. I personally would not, but there are some who do.
AreaCode707
Lifer
I'm sticking with what I said about whether it would be labeled a cult if it was written about in a newspaper, regardless of what I personally think. I'm not sure how a newspaper would classify that - probably as a religion, to be safe.
Indeed, use a more useful definition. I've seen that list posted in a few places, or close variations of it, so I'd feel happy calling it the commonly accepted definition.
As such, as I said, I was part of a religion that met every single one of those points. EVERY one.
AreaCode707
Lifer
Or maybe I'm asking a question about something very specific and I don't want flames and inapplicable answers if I can avoid it.
Gigantopithecus
Diamond Member
"Any criticism of the individual is also seen as persecution only because they are the ?true Christian? or ?enlightened? one - not because they, as an individual, have done the wrong thing. However, at the same time they will feel free to criticise whatever you believe, say and do because they are ?the only ones who are right?."
You asked something very specific and many have given you a straight answer. Why don't you try reading the definition of a cult, think about, and then with an honest face that definition doesn't apply to just about every religion there is. Like I said, the only difference is the roster. Your 'newspaper definition' is about as strong a point for my argument as I could make myself.
Zenmervolt
Elite member
I think that this is a very good example of the effects of a very large and, for the most part, completely ignored cult of self-satisfied intellectualism. Anyone not conforming to their own anti-religious stance is derided as being inferior, and since they are, of course, right they are free to criticise the rest of us.
ZV
ZV
Gigantopithecus
Diamond Member
In your attempt to be witty, you neglected to realize that intellectualism doesn't fit the definition of a cult.
And no intellectual worth their salt is ever self-satisfied.
Wallydraigle
Banned
But that could be anything. The military, an aggressive company, the high school football team, all hit most or all of those points. I think from a practical standpoint HotChic's newspaper rule isn't too bad.
For example, I was raised a JW:
How They Do This
[*]Their leader/s may claim a special, exclusive ministry, revelation or position of authority given by God.
Indeed, they believe their appointed body - the "Governing Body" - are directly inspired by God in all their decisions.
[*]They believe they are the only true church and take a critical stance regarding the Christian church while at the same time praising and exalting their own group, leader/s and work.
Exactly. In fact, they have books and videos covering their own history and how they've always been the True Religion, how they alone resisted the Nazis (even though they tried to make peace with them, but they strangely omit that fact from their "official history"), how they alone stood by god's teachings of neutrality (forgetting that they actually allowed members to serve in WW1, as long as they didn't actually SHOOT anyone - while other religions took a more strict stance), etc.
[*]They use intimidation or psychological manipulation to keep members loyal to their ranks. This could be in the form of threats of dire calamity sent by God if they leave; certain death at Armageddon; being shunned by their family and friends etc. This is a vital part of the mind control process.
Certain death at Armageddon combined with "the withdrawing of God's favor" (IE., bad things start happening to you) is how they keep members in.
[*]Members will be expected to give substantial financial support to the group. This could be compulsory tithing (which is checked); signing over all their property on entering the group; coercive methods of instilling guilt on those who have not contributed; selling magazines, flowers or other goods for the group as part of their ?ministry?.
"Selling magazines" is the ticket here. Although, it's not "selling" (only *lesser* religions do that, of course) - no, they just give away magazines and ask for a *voluntary donation to the worldwide work* when "placed".
[*]At the same time bible-based cults may ridicule churches that take up free-will offerings by passing collection plates and/or sell literature and tapes. They usually brag that they don?t do this. This gives outsiders the intimation that they are not interested in money.
Bingo! No collection plates. Donations are all "voluntary". Only...you'd BETTER be 'voluntarily donating', or ELSE.
[*]There will be great emphasis on loyalty to the group and its teachings. The lives of members will be totally absorbed into the group?s activities. They will have little or no time to think for themselves because of physical and emotional exhaustion. This is also a vital part of the mind control process.
The JWs have their "field ministry". You, as a 'publisher' in good standing, MUST go out in the field ministry every month for a certain number of hours. They even have more elite publishers - Auxiliary Pioneers and Pioneers that are *required* to put in 30 hours or 60 hours a month in the "field ministry". Further, all publishers are required to attend the 5 weekly meetings, are encouraged to have a home bible study to study FOR each of the meetings, as well as a home bible study just for 'the family's spirituality'. This is in addition to their district and circuit assemblies throughout the year.
[*]There will be total control over almost all aspects of the private lives of members. This control can be direct through communal living, or constant and repetitious teaching on ?how to be a true Christian? or ?being obedient to leadership?. Members will look to their leaders for guidance in everything they do.
Well, what do you think the point IS of all those meetings? "How to be a true Christian" and "being obedient to leadership" (I swear the publishers of this article copied those lines directly out of JW publication). Oh, and the other buzzword - "Be wary of independant thinking" - it will lead to sin!
[*]Bible-based cults may proclaim they have no clergy/laity distinction and no paid ministry class - that they are all equal.
Exactly. The congregation 'elders' are merely servants of the congregation - they still need to do door to door publishing, have home bible studies, etc. They state proudly (from the platform) that they are no greater than the congregation.
[*]Any dissent or questioning of the group?s teachings is discouraged. Criticism in any form is seen as rebellion. There will be an emphasis on authority, unquestioning obedience and submission. This is vigilantly maintained.
Indeed - that "independant thinking" I mentioned above is STRONGLY discouraged. When you say "bible study" in this religion, you mean EXCLUSIVELY using the Watchtower-supplied "study materials". If you try to bring in outside materials into any discussion, you will be interrupted and not called on for comment again. Outside materials are tainted by Satan, only Watchtower-supplied study materials are appropriate for really UNDERSTANDING the Bible. Did I mention that they have their own version of the Bible, too? Oh, yeah, they have their own version of the Bible, too. And that's what you'd BETTER be quoting from when you read a scripture.
[*]Members are required to demonstrate their loyalty to the group in some way. This could be in the form of ?dobbing? on fellow members (including family) under the guise of looking out for their ?spiritual welfare?. They may be required to deliberately lie (heavenly deception) or give up their lives by refusing some form of medical treatment.
Ding, ding, and ding. Aside from the door-to-door ministry to bring in new members, they require you to try to get family members in, too. Check up on their spiritual well being, discuss the religion incidentally, etc - they call this "informal witnessing", and you can count the hours doing this against the total you need to generate each month in the "ministry"! And I'm sure the JW stance on being prohibitted from taking a blood transfusion for ANY reason - including life or death - is well known. If you are a JW and need a blood transfusion, you are required to die for the religion. If you take one and life anyway, you will be "disfellowshipped". See next point.
[*]Attempts to leave or reveal embarrassing facts about the group may be met with threats. Some may have taken oaths of loyalty that involve their lives or have signed a ?covenant? and feel threatened by this.
[*]Refugees of the group are usually faced with confrontations by other members with coercion to get them to return to the group.
Both of these I'm grouping together. The JW punishment for leaving, or questioning beliefs, or taking a blood transfusion, or any other major infraction, is to be "disfellowshipped". This means your friends, family, etc - everyone still an active JW - are no longer allowed to associate with you. If they have to talk with you at all, it can only be on a strictly professional/business-like nature (IE., finances and the like), they aren't allowed to discuss the religion with you, family or social connections, your welfare, etc. They certainly can't visit you or associate with you in public.
Some Abuses Of Rights And Freedoms:
1. Abuse Of Individuality: They adopt a ?groupness? mentality. They are not permitted to think for themselves apart from the group and only accept what they are told.
Exactly. The "dangers of independant thinking" are frequently expounded on.
2. Abuse Of Intimacy: Relationships with friends, relatives, spouses, children, parents etc are broken or seriously hampered.
Note the 'disfellowshipping' above. JW family members are discouraged from associated with non-JW family members unless they are "informally witnessing" to them. And those who leave the religion - spouses, children, parents, etc - are cut off from those still "in". Interestingly, even between spouses IN the religion, the JWs regulate how they can interact. Who is the head of the household, which party has which responsibilities - even what type of sex acts are okay or not!
3. Abuse Of Finances: Pressure to give all you can to the group. In non-communal groups, members usually live at the lower socio-economic strata, not because of a lower income level, but because they are always giving money to the group for some reason.
Exactly, they are pressured to keep giving to the group.
4. ?Us Versus Them? Mentality: Isolation from the community in general. Anyone and everything outside the group is seen as ?of the devil? or ?unenlightened? etc. Their enemies now include former friends; the Christian church; governments; education systems; the media - the world in general. Those who are involved with these in any way see such involvement as a ?means to an end?.
The "entire world is lying in the power of the wicked one". If you aren't a JW, you are essentially just a puppet on one of Satan's strings trying to pull loyal JWs away from the organization.
5. Abuse Of Time And Energy: The group controls and uses almost all the members time and energy in group activities. They are usually in a constant state of mental and physical exhaustion.
As noted, required meetings, required field service, required study time.
6. Abuse Of Free Will: They must unquestioning submit to the groups teachings and directions and their own free will is broken. Their ?will? actually becomes the groups ?will? without their realizing it. This is done either by coercive methods including low protein diets and lack of sleep, or over a period of time through intimidation. Both methods make heavy use of ?guilt?.
Intimidation is the method here. Those who seem to be engaging in "indepedant thought" are made examples of in front of the congregation - not from the platform, per se, but more gossip in field service (the car groups are always rife with gossip) about who the elders are "worried about", etc. Visibly pulling someone from socialising before a meeting into the back room to "have a talk with them" also serves to mark people and guilt them into toeing the line better.
Results Of This Abuse
Suffice to say, long-standing JWs who are "active" and "loyal" members of the organization meet all these criteria. That's not to say ALL JWs are *good* JWs by the organizations standard. The HQ of the organization is located in New York, and, generally, the farther a congregation is from the HQ, the more lax it is. California congregations, especially, are well known throughout the country for their SUBSTANTIALLY lower standards. Still, the basics are there and any "good" JW has all these personality defects
1. Personality Changes
Relatives will say they no longer recognize the person. From a warm, loving personality will come heaped abuse, rejection and feelings of hate. The cult member sees himself as ?righteous? in comparison and this comes across in their attitude toward all outsiders.
That's pretty common. Non-JW relatives do worry about those still "in", I know I do about my family.
2. Loss Of Identity
They cannot see themselves as individuals apart from the group. Some even change their name as a rejection of their former life.
I'm not aware of any name changes happening - but I wouldn't doubt it, with 6 million active members, there is surely a real loony in there somewhere. But, baptism is required by adults in this religion, and it is the "outward symbolizing of your abadonement of your previous way of life".
3. Paranoid - We Are Being Persecuted
Any time you say anything negative about the group, whether justified or no, it is regarded as ?persecution?. Any criticism of the individual is also seen as persecution only because they are the ?true Christian? or ?enlightened? one - not because they, as an individual, have done the wrong thing. However, at the same time they will feel free to criticise whatever you believe, say and do because they are ?the only ones who are right?.
Ah, where would the JWs be without their persecution complex. Somebody is injured in a car accident? They must have been too zealous and Satan had to deal with them. Somebody is having financial difficulty? It's just Satan persecuring god's loyal followers. Family members causing trouble with meeting attendance? It's just Satan manipulating them! Always it's "we are living in the time of the end" and "the love of the greater number has cooled off" and how family members will turn against those who follow The Truth (tm), etc.
4. Social Disorientation
They lose their ability to socialize outside the group. This can go so far as to not being able to structure their time or make simple decisions for themselves when they leave.
Their world-view alters and they perceive the world through their leaders eyes. They become very naive about life in general.
Unfortunately, this is true. Especially, the "not being able to structure their time or make simple decisions for themselves when they leave". The wife and I have been out of the religion for 4 or 5 years now, and STILL fight with this point. It's really hard when you were never taught growing up even HOW to think for yourself - indeed, it was suggested in no uncertain terms at every point along the way that TO think for yourself was critically dangerous.
5. Severe Guilt Complexes
They are made to feel guilty of everything they did before entering the group and are to strive to be ?good? and ?worthy? for ?eternal life?. Misdemeanors are made into ?mountains? so that members are in a constant state of guilt for infringing even the most minor rules. Guilt comes because they aren?t doing enough; entertaining doubts or questions; even thinking rationally for oneself.
This guilt is piled upon pile with new rules constantly being laid down about what is sinful and what is not. Illness may be seen as lack of faith - more guilt. Emotional illness may be seen as proof of sin in your life - more guilt.
It's a cycle that they create. They teach - no, brainwash - that being loyal to god makes you full of energy and joyful. Many examples are given from the platform of others in other congregations who were rewarded for their faith with energy, with true happiness, etc. That's what True Loyalty brings. And then they require 5 meetings a week, bible studies for each and a home bible study, time out in service (it's stated point blank you'll be happier and more full of energy if you put in the 60 hours of a pioneer instead of a publisher's 10 hours), etc. Which, of course, makes you exhausted, tired, and miserable. But being exhausted, tired, and miserable is only a symptom of god's blessings not being on you because you aren't doing enough! So, you push yourself harder...and make yourself MORE exhausted, tired, and miserable. God is *withdrawing* blessings from you! You must work HARDER! Etc, etc.
Now, see, THAT's a cult, and I think you'll find that *most* mainstream religions do NOT match these criteria like so.
How They Do This
[*]Their leader/s may claim a special, exclusive ministry, revelation or position of authority given by God.
Indeed, they believe their appointed body - the "Governing Body" - are directly inspired by God in all their decisions.
[*]They believe they are the only true church and take a critical stance regarding the Christian church while at the same time praising and exalting their own group, leader/s and work.
Exactly. In fact, they have books and videos covering their own history and how they've always been the True Religion, how they alone resisted the Nazis (even though they tried to make peace with them, but they strangely omit that fact from their "official history"), how they alone stood by god's teachings of neutrality (forgetting that they actually allowed members to serve in WW1, as long as they didn't actually SHOOT anyone - while other religions took a more strict stance), etc.
[*]They use intimidation or psychological manipulation to keep members loyal to their ranks. This could be in the form of threats of dire calamity sent by God if they leave; certain death at Armageddon; being shunned by their family and friends etc. This is a vital part of the mind control process.
Certain death at Armageddon combined with "the withdrawing of God's favor" (IE., bad things start happening to you) is how they keep members in.
[*]Members will be expected to give substantial financial support to the group. This could be compulsory tithing (which is checked); signing over all their property on entering the group; coercive methods of instilling guilt on those who have not contributed; selling magazines, flowers or other goods for the group as part of their ?ministry?.
"Selling magazines" is the ticket here. Although, it's not "selling" (only *lesser* religions do that, of course) - no, they just give away magazines and ask for a *voluntary donation to the worldwide work* when "placed".
[*]At the same time bible-based cults may ridicule churches that take up free-will offerings by passing collection plates and/or sell literature and tapes. They usually brag that they don?t do this. This gives outsiders the intimation that they are not interested in money.
Bingo! No collection plates. Donations are all "voluntary". Only...you'd BETTER be 'voluntarily donating', or ELSE.
[*]There will be great emphasis on loyalty to the group and its teachings. The lives of members will be totally absorbed into the group?s activities. They will have little or no time to think for themselves because of physical and emotional exhaustion. This is also a vital part of the mind control process.
The JWs have their "field ministry". You, as a 'publisher' in good standing, MUST go out in the field ministry every month for a certain number of hours. They even have more elite publishers - Auxiliary Pioneers and Pioneers that are *required* to put in 30 hours or 60 hours a month in the "field ministry". Further, all publishers are required to attend the 5 weekly meetings, are encouraged to have a home bible study to study FOR each of the meetings, as well as a home bible study just for 'the family's spirituality'. This is in addition to their district and circuit assemblies throughout the year.
[*]There will be total control over almost all aspects of the private lives of members. This control can be direct through communal living, or constant and repetitious teaching on ?how to be a true Christian? or ?being obedient to leadership?. Members will look to their leaders for guidance in everything they do.
Well, what do you think the point IS of all those meetings? "How to be a true Christian" and "being obedient to leadership" (I swear the publishers of this article copied those lines directly out of JW publication). Oh, and the other buzzword - "Be wary of independant thinking" - it will lead to sin!
[*]Bible-based cults may proclaim they have no clergy/laity distinction and no paid ministry class - that they are all equal.
Exactly. The congregation 'elders' are merely servants of the congregation - they still need to do door to door publishing, have home bible studies, etc. They state proudly (from the platform) that they are no greater than the congregation.
[*]Any dissent or questioning of the group?s teachings is discouraged. Criticism in any form is seen as rebellion. There will be an emphasis on authority, unquestioning obedience and submission. This is vigilantly maintained.
Indeed - that "independant thinking" I mentioned above is STRONGLY discouraged. When you say "bible study" in this religion, you mean EXCLUSIVELY using the Watchtower-supplied "study materials". If you try to bring in outside materials into any discussion, you will be interrupted and not called on for comment again. Outside materials are tainted by Satan, only Watchtower-supplied study materials are appropriate for really UNDERSTANDING the Bible. Did I mention that they have their own version of the Bible, too? Oh, yeah, they have their own version of the Bible, too. And that's what you'd BETTER be quoting from when you read a scripture.
[*]Members are required to demonstrate their loyalty to the group in some way. This could be in the form of ?dobbing? on fellow members (including family) under the guise of looking out for their ?spiritual welfare?. They may be required to deliberately lie (heavenly deception) or give up their lives by refusing some form of medical treatment.
Ding, ding, and ding. Aside from the door-to-door ministry to bring in new members, they require you to try to get family members in, too. Check up on their spiritual well being, discuss the religion incidentally, etc - they call this "informal witnessing", and you can count the hours doing this against the total you need to generate each month in the "ministry"! And I'm sure the JW stance on being prohibitted from taking a blood transfusion for ANY reason - including life or death - is well known. If you are a JW and need a blood transfusion, you are required to die for the religion. If you take one and life anyway, you will be "disfellowshipped". See next point.
[*]Attempts to leave or reveal embarrassing facts about the group may be met with threats. Some may have taken oaths of loyalty that involve their lives or have signed a ?covenant? and feel threatened by this.
[*]Refugees of the group are usually faced with confrontations by other members with coercion to get them to return to the group.
Both of these I'm grouping together. The JW punishment for leaving, or questioning beliefs, or taking a blood transfusion, or any other major infraction, is to be "disfellowshipped". This means your friends, family, etc - everyone still an active JW - are no longer allowed to associate with you. If they have to talk with you at all, it can only be on a strictly professional/business-like nature (IE., finances and the like), they aren't allowed to discuss the religion with you, family or social connections, your welfare, etc. They certainly can't visit you or associate with you in public.
Some Abuses Of Rights And Freedoms:
1. Abuse Of Individuality: They adopt a ?groupness? mentality. They are not permitted to think for themselves apart from the group and only accept what they are told.
Exactly. The "dangers of independant thinking" are frequently expounded on.
2. Abuse Of Intimacy: Relationships with friends, relatives, spouses, children, parents etc are broken or seriously hampered.
Note the 'disfellowshipping' above. JW family members are discouraged from associated with non-JW family members unless they are "informally witnessing" to them. And those who leave the religion - spouses, children, parents, etc - are cut off from those still "in". Interestingly, even between spouses IN the religion, the JWs regulate how they can interact. Who is the head of the household, which party has which responsibilities - even what type of sex acts are okay or not!
3. Abuse Of Finances: Pressure to give all you can to the group. In non-communal groups, members usually live at the lower socio-economic strata, not because of a lower income level, but because they are always giving money to the group for some reason.
Exactly, they are pressured to keep giving to the group.
4. ?Us Versus Them? Mentality: Isolation from the community in general. Anyone and everything outside the group is seen as ?of the devil? or ?unenlightened? etc. Their enemies now include former friends; the Christian church; governments; education systems; the media - the world in general. Those who are involved with these in any way see such involvement as a ?means to an end?.
The "entire world is lying in the power of the wicked one". If you aren't a JW, you are essentially just a puppet on one of Satan's strings trying to pull loyal JWs away from the organization.
5. Abuse Of Time And Energy: The group controls and uses almost all the members time and energy in group activities. They are usually in a constant state of mental and physical exhaustion.
As noted, required meetings, required field service, required study time.
6. Abuse Of Free Will: They must unquestioning submit to the groups teachings and directions and their own free will is broken. Their ?will? actually becomes the groups ?will? without their realizing it. This is done either by coercive methods including low protein diets and lack of sleep, or over a period of time through intimidation. Both methods make heavy use of ?guilt?.
Intimidation is the method here. Those who seem to be engaging in "indepedant thought" are made examples of in front of the congregation - not from the platform, per se, but more gossip in field service (the car groups are always rife with gossip) about who the elders are "worried about", etc. Visibly pulling someone from socialising before a meeting into the back room to "have a talk with them" also serves to mark people and guilt them into toeing the line better.
Results Of This Abuse
Suffice to say, long-standing JWs who are "active" and "loyal" members of the organization meet all these criteria. That's not to say ALL JWs are *good* JWs by the organizations standard. The HQ of the organization is located in New York, and, generally, the farther a congregation is from the HQ, the more lax it is. California congregations, especially, are well known throughout the country for their SUBSTANTIALLY lower standards. Still, the basics are there and any "good" JW has all these personality defects
1. Personality Changes
Relatives will say they no longer recognize the person. From a warm, loving personality will come heaped abuse, rejection and feelings of hate. The cult member sees himself as ?righteous? in comparison and this comes across in their attitude toward all outsiders.
That's pretty common. Non-JW relatives do worry about those still "in", I know I do about my family.
2. Loss Of Identity
They cannot see themselves as individuals apart from the group. Some even change their name as a rejection of their former life.
I'm not aware of any name changes happening - but I wouldn't doubt it, with 6 million active members, there is surely a real loony in there somewhere. But, baptism is required by adults in this religion, and it is the "outward symbolizing of your abadonement of your previous way of life".
3. Paranoid - We Are Being Persecuted
Any time you say anything negative about the group, whether justified or no, it is regarded as ?persecution?. Any criticism of the individual is also seen as persecution only because they are the ?true Christian? or ?enlightened? one - not because they, as an individual, have done the wrong thing. However, at the same time they will feel free to criticise whatever you believe, say and do because they are ?the only ones who are right?.
Ah, where would the JWs be without their persecution complex. Somebody is injured in a car accident? They must have been too zealous and Satan had to deal with them. Somebody is having financial difficulty? It's just Satan persecuring god's loyal followers. Family members causing trouble with meeting attendance? It's just Satan manipulating them! Always it's "we are living in the time of the end" and "the love of the greater number has cooled off" and how family members will turn against those who follow The Truth (tm), etc.
4. Social Disorientation
They lose their ability to socialize outside the group. This can go so far as to not being able to structure their time or make simple decisions for themselves when they leave.
Their world-view alters and they perceive the world through their leaders eyes. They become very naive about life in general.
Unfortunately, this is true. Especially, the "not being able to structure their time or make simple decisions for themselves when they leave". The wife and I have been out of the religion for 4 or 5 years now, and STILL fight with this point. It's really hard when you were never taught growing up even HOW to think for yourself - indeed, it was suggested in no uncertain terms at every point along the way that TO think for yourself was critically dangerous.
5. Severe Guilt Complexes
They are made to feel guilty of everything they did before entering the group and are to strive to be ?good? and ?worthy? for ?eternal life?. Misdemeanors are made into ?mountains? so that members are in a constant state of guilt for infringing even the most minor rules. Guilt comes because they aren?t doing enough; entertaining doubts or questions; even thinking rationally for oneself.
This guilt is piled upon pile with new rules constantly being laid down about what is sinful and what is not. Illness may be seen as lack of faith - more guilt. Emotional illness may be seen as proof of sin in your life - more guilt.
It's a cycle that they create. They teach - no, brainwash - that being loyal to god makes you full of energy and joyful. Many examples are given from the platform of others in other congregations who were rewarded for their faith with energy, with true happiness, etc. That's what True Loyalty brings. And then they require 5 meetings a week, bible studies for each and a home bible study, time out in service (it's stated point blank you'll be happier and more full of energy if you put in the 60 hours of a pioneer instead of a publisher's 10 hours), etc. Which, of course, makes you exhausted, tired, and miserable. But being exhausted, tired, and miserable is only a symptom of god's blessings not being on you because you aren't doing enough! So, you push yourself harder...and make yourself MORE exhausted, tired, and miserable. God is *withdrawing* blessings from you! You must work HARDER! Etc, etc.
Now, see, THAT's a cult, and I think you'll find that *most* mainstream religions do NOT match these criteria like so.
Zenmervolt
Elite member
Then you're obvously no intellectual by your own definition, as your post show a smugness as clearly as a lighthouse beacon on a fogless night.
ZV
You are missing the important points in that list, though:
* The CULT breaks down family ties - as in, requires family members to not associate with others - based on their status in the cult
* The CULT teaches an "us vs them" mentality. Not just team-based, but actually "they are out to destroy us, damn our eternal souls to hell, and every single person everywhere not in our religion is 'them' who would kill us if they could"
* You aren't allowed to decide to leave the cult. I'm not aware of any churches that won't LET you leave. Discourage? Sure, but only because "it's better if you stayed". Not like the cult reaction of "If you go, you will be punished". If you leave a football team, your family doesn't stop talking to you and kick you out of the house.
I mean, I could go on and on.
Again, many organizations may technically hit a few of those points, but that means nothing. A cult will hit NEARLY ALL OF THEM - only 1 or 2 excepted maybe (almost all cults do hit every one, though), and not in a "technically" way. When a cult is "abusing free will" it's not a coach suggesting you put more time into football practice. It's a religious leader telling you that unless you attend more meetings, contribute more money, stick to the religions teachings better, and quit questioning things, they are going to cut you off from your family and friends and you will die at Armeggedon, if not sooner (hint, hint).
Wallydraigle
Banned
dderidex, would you care to post some of your experiences being raised a JW? If not would you PM me? I'm genuinely interested. Thanks.
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