• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Have you been duped by the public education system?

Page 6 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Point #1: Public schools aren't supposed to push the Biblical view, that is not their job, they are PUBLIC SCHOOLS. If you want your kids to have a christian education, well gosh, where do you think you should send them?

Point #2: I went to a Catholic school for many years, yet I managed to come out of it with my own unique (and very different) views intact. Which begs the question, why can't we expect the same of the poor little Christian kids in public schools? Are they too weak minded to think on their own, do they need a reinforcement structure to think anything at all? Or are the people complaining about this just a bunch of whiney bastards?
 
Jesse Ventura was right when he said people that go to church are weak minded. It seems like these bible thumpers are so weak minded that they need people to pat them on the back every day and reinforce their teachings. You don't need to go to church every week to be a good Christian. You need to believe in god and do good upon others. Not like the fake Christians that want to abolish public schools and turn down people without health insurance who are dying. Great Christian values!
 
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Jesse Ventura was right when he said people that go to church are weak minded. It seems like these bible thumpers are so weak minded that they need people to pat them on the back every day and reinforce their teachings. You don't need to go to church every week to be a good Christian. You need to believe in god and do good upon others. Not like the fake Christians that want to abolish public schools and turn down people without health insurance who are dying. Great Christian values!

In most cases I'd argue with you on this point, however, the majority of people that I know who go to church regularly do so because they cannot form any sort of spiritual beliefs without the guidance of the Church. Says a lot about a religion when its followers cannot even think for themselves.
 
Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne

the majority of people that I know who go to church regularly do so because they cannot form any sort of spiritual beliefs without the guidance of the Church. Says a lot about a religion when its followers cannot even think for themselves.
I think they go more to celebrate and re-affirm their beliefs and to gather with those who are like minded.
 
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Study Shows Public Schools Indoctrinate Even Christian Kids
Jim Brown and Jenni Parker
Agape Press

A researcher has revealed some disturbing trends regarding the sets of beliefs Christian students in public schools have about the most important issues in life.

Dan Smithwick is the founder and president of the Nehemiah Institute, a group that provides a biblical worldview testing and training service to Christian educators. He is the developer of what is called the "PEERS test," a tool to assess the worldviews of young people, and says the majority of public school students from evangelical Christian homes consistently score in the "socialist" category on the test.

According to Smithwick, this outcome should come as no surprise, considering the fact that secular humanists are currently shaping America. He notes that socialism, a political and economic philosophy that commonly emphasizes government control and redistribution of wealth over personal responsibility and private ownership, often goes hand in hand with secularist attitudes and a generally non-biblical worldview.

Smithwick's worldview test consists of a series of statements carefully designed to identify a person's worldview in five categories: Politics, Economics, Education, Religion, and Social Issues (PEERS). Each statement is framed to either agree or disagree with a biblical principle.

When it comes to major moral and social issues, the Nehemiah Institute spokesman contends there is a dramatic difference in thinking between students in public schools and those in Christian schools. This is because, while Christian school students are generally taught curricula predicated on a biblical worldview, students educated in public schools, even when they grow up in Christian homes, tend to a very high degree to adopt the non-biblical and socialistic worldviews of the secular humanists in control of their education.

"In the last hundred years," Smithwick asserts, "and especially in the last 30 years, this is the audience that is shaping the public square in America, hands down. And they didn't really have to fight for it -- we [in the Church] gave it to them. Somewhere along the way we decided that the public square really wasn't our business. It wasn't our playground; they could have it, and they've had their way with it."

As a result, the Christian education advocate says, even Christian students are growing up to become a part of a society with an increasingly secular-humanistic and socialistic worldview. "Now we've got a mess on our hands," he says, "and it's really our fault. So we've got to change that. We've got to repent before God. We've got to go back and understand that worldview means God is interested in everything he created."

Undoing the Damage Done by Dewey

Unfortunately, Smithwick says, many Christian young people today are not being taught to think biblically in all areas of life. That is why he urges parents, pastors and Christian teachers to take advantage of the Nehemiah Institute's worldview testing, training, and resources. And this is why he has been promoting the Institute's programs this week at the Alliance for the Separation of School and State Conference in Washington, DC.

Undoing Dewey -- that's the goal of the program, according to Smithwick. He refers to the secular humanist principles of John Dewey (1859-1952), the philosopher and education reformer whose principles have shaped public education in America. Dewey promoted a philosophy of education with the premise that learning by doing (experimentalism) should form the basis of education, and any idea or concept is validated by its practicality (pragmatism). Some Christian educators consider these ideas to be precursors to "values clarification" and other questionable teaching models that advocate moral relativism, but which are commonly taught in teacher education and used in U.S. public schools.

Smithwick says his program of PEERS testing indicates that Christian students are by no means immune to the secular humanism being taught in public schools, but have in fact been dramatically influenced by it. "The way we got this was by testing youth groups in evangelical churches," he says. "The majority of the kids are in public schools. In many cases, 100 percent of them are in public schools."

The Nehemiah Institute president says many pastors like to call these young people their "best kids" since this group, at least, are involved in a church youth group. Still, he asserts that these kids have not escaped with an intact biblical worldview. "They're in public school," he says, "and they're buying into the philosophy of life that's being put before them five days a week, six or seven hours a day."

Smithwick recommends PEERS testing as an aid for Christians who want to make sure their young people develop a distinctly biblical worldview. He advises Church parents to disconnect from government schooling and, along with pastors and other Christian educators, to engage in worldview assessment and training.

Link

I think Rip is inline with GWB and his domestic policy agenda.

 
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
You don't need to go to church every week to be a good Christian.

This is way off topic, but let me address this statement.

Can you be a good Christian and ignore God's word? Of course not.

Let's see waht God has to say about church attendance.

"Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more, as you see the day drawing near." (Heb. 10:23-25)

"I am writing these things to you, hoping to come to you before long; but in case I am delayed, I write so that you may know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth." (1 Timothy 3:14-15)

"And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it, and gave it to them, saying, 'This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.'" (Luke 22:19) (He who forsakes the assembly forsakes the remembrance of the Lord's supper.)

"Obey your leaders, and submit to them; for they keep watch over your souls, as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you." (Hebrews 13:17) (It's pretty hard for church leaders to watch over you when you don't regularly attend church)



 
i have not read beyond maybe 3 chapters of the bible because i had a very short attention span as a child, but nevertheless, i have some comments...

Originally posted by: Riprorin
This is way off topic, but let me address this statement.

Can you be a good Christian and ignore God's word? Of course not.

Let's see waht God has to say about church attendance.

"Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more, as you see the day drawing near." (Heb. 10:23-25)

i went to bible.com and found that this was not really complete in thought:

Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised😉 24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

26 seems to indicate that the reason for not forsaking assembling is to keep from willfully sinning after having received the knowledge of the truth. ergo, if you can keep from willfully sinning without assembling, where is the harm in not assembling?

"I am writing these things to you, hoping to come to you before long; but in case I am delayed, I write so that you may know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth." (1 Timothy 3:14-15)

i guess i don't really see how this is saying you need to go to church... he is just telling people how to conduct themselves in church, not that they need to go to church.

"And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it, and gave it to them, saying, 'This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.'" (Luke 22:19) (He who forsakes the assembly forsakes the remembrance of the Lord's supper.)

i'm assuming the parenthetical text is your own comment... and i don't really see how you came to that conclusion from the scripture quoted.

"Obey your leaders, and submit to them; for they keep watch over your souls, as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you." (Hebrews 13:17) (It's pretty hard for church leaders to watch over you when you don't regularly attend church)

obey your leaders... if you don't have any leaders (which is possible if you don't subscribe to any particular sect of christianity), then you are not breaking this rule by not going to church, since it is impossible to disobey leaders that don't exist.
 
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
You don't need to go to church every week to be a good Christian.

This is way off topic, but let me address this statement.

Can you be a good Christian and ignore God's word? Of course not.

Let's see waht God has to say about church attendance.

"Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more, as you see the day drawing near." (Heb. 10:23-25)

"I am writing these things to you, hoping to come to you before long; but in case I am delayed, I write so that you may know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth." (1 Timothy 3:14-15)

"And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it, and gave it to them, saying, 'This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.'" (Luke 22:19) (He who forsakes the assembly forsakes the remembrance of the Lord's supper.)

"Obey your leaders, and submit to them; for they keep watch over your souls, as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you." (Hebrews 13:17) (It's pretty hard for church leaders to watch over you when you don't regularly attend church)



I don't need church leaders to watch over me. I watch over myself. The fact remains that a lot of these so called leaders are phoneys and the only thing that mattered to them was raising money so they can turn the church into an enterprise. I can watch over myself. I know whats right and whats wrong. I can pray. I can read the bible. I don't need anyone holding my hand. Thank you very much.
 
I'm not going to jump into the fray, but rather make a comment;

The quality of one's education is based on how much the person tries to learn, not the quality of the school.
 
I'm a Junior at an ultra exclusive private catholic highschool, and religions are mixed. None of my friends are particularily religious, I know less than 4 people that atend church on a regular basis and probably 50% of my grade would catagorize themselves as non religious, but one thing about 85% of the school is, is a body of conservative republicans. Since most of these kids come from financially privledged backgrounds, they choose to protect their money, where as children at public school are usually less well of would probably fall into more liberal catagories because they need more help from the goverment. It has little to do with religion.

On a second note, having religion jammed down my throat for 40 minutes a day has actually made me less of a catholic then when I entered the school. Most of the school hates going to mass too, they have to chain the student parking lots off so people don't leave. Whenever they have optional masses after school, there are about 15 students max celebrating.
 
I have been in a public middle school, high school, and two public universities and I think I'm doing pretty well. Rip, if you really care about public education reform, you should probably do a little more research that does not ignore cases like me. In fact, instead of skimming through hundreds of articles and picking one whose title agrees with your opinions, I challenge you to do something else. Find what causes a public school to succeed or fail. That'll probably give you more insight than just blindly thrusting all public schools into the failure bin.
 
Originally posted by: SaberDicer
I'm a Junior at an ultra exclusive private catholic highschool, and religions are mixed. None of my friends are particularily religious, I know less than 4 people that atend church on a regular basis and probably 50% of my grade would catagorize themselves as non religious, but one thing about 85% of the school is, is a body of conservative republicans. Since most of these kids come from financially privledged backgrounds, they choose to protect their money, where as children at public school are usually less well of would probably fall into more liberal catagories because they need more help from the goverment. It has little to do with religion.

On a second note, having religion jammed down my throat for 40 minutes a day has actually made me less of a catholic then when I entered the school. Most of the school hates going to mass too, they have to chain the student parking lots off so people don't leave. Whenever they have optional masses after school, there are about 15 students max celebrating.

I see that things haven't changed much since I went through catholic grade school and high school!

Bluntly put, the public schools should (and generally do) teach what can be backed up by science (yes, that includes evolution) and avoid getting into religious explanations for what science can not explain. And that is how it should be.

I feel sorry for all those "christian" kids who are put into parocial schools by their parents where they are force fed a bunch a beliefs -- particularly when those charlatins try to pass their mumbo-jumbo off as science!

 
Originally posted by: HalosPuma
Originally posted by: ECUHITMAN
There is no way what your saying would work for the entire country. True "some" private schools are better than others, but there is no way they could handle all the students that are in the public schools.
Capitalism! Do you honestly think that a cash-cow like private-education would not lead others to open up their own private-schools? Just look at all of the other sectors out there. A high profit-margin always brings in competition.

Originally posted by: ECUHITMAN
Your ideas are very Darwinistic, which is fine if you are on the side that has the ability to stay above all the rest. You obviously do not care what happens to poor people. Can you honestly tell me that you would sleep ok at night if what you want actually went into effect and millions of Americans would starve to death?

Yes, have you seen my other thread? That would only be a transition until the free-market balanced things out. I am a firm believer in the free-market. In the end, it will correct all of our problems, but we would first have to go through a hardship.

Did your private school teach you the Hitler complex or did you come up with that yourself?

You cannot purify America by eradicating the lower classes through the process of removing their education, thus making them unemployable, and then having them starve to death. Funny you say "we would first have to go through a hardship."

Your plan would backfire quite spectacularly. We would end up with a tiny upper class and millions of people who live on dirt and cockroaches, and then, anarchy. There are millions upon millions of poor people supported by the government (and you) already. If you think the welfare system is overburdened now, what you are proposing would add millions more to the list, as the next generation grows up even more unprepared to contribute to society than the last. These people would stop buying products and pumping cash into the economy, causing more people would be laid off and out of work (and not sending their kids to Private School). This would obviously have a domino effect.

You should go ask for your money back from that school you're so proud of. They obviously did not teach you how capitalism works. If you're going to sell a product, you'll need customers. Except you've run half the population out of a job. Oops...

You paying taxes for public schools is an investment in your future. It guarantees that there will be a consumer base to buy your company's products. If it helps you can always comfort yourself in the knowledge that you're smarter than them 😉
 
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: TheBDB
There should be a choice. Why is the only option, besides private education, a system that undermines the values and beliefs of many people of faith?

What do you suggest?

Here's one way:

Rather than having government administrators assigning children to public schools based on their address, families should select the school they want to send their children to.

The choice should include all schools, including private and parochial schools.

The government then directs the tuition payment, which the government assures to all students, to the school of choice.

Rahter than the current tyrranical system, parents should have a choice.
 
Didnt we just finish this discussion here?

I believe this is the thread where DragonMasterAlex and RedDawn convinced everyone that communism works because people are by default unselfish and good moral people? I believe that the fall of the Soviet Union proved that wrong.




I state my opinion again... the persuit of knowledge and money are responsible for all that is evil.
 
Originally posted by: sao123
Didnt we just finish this discussion here?

I believe this is the thread where DragonMasterAlex and RedDawn convinced everyone that communism works because people are by default unselfish and good moral people?
I believe you suck hard at reading comprehension because I said no such thing.
 
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: TheBDB
There should be a choice. Why is the only option, besides private education, a system that undermines the values and beliefs of many people of faith?

What do you suggest?

Here's one way:

Rather than having government administrators assigning children to public schools based on their address, families should select the school they want to send their children to.

The choice should include all schools, including private and parochial schools.

The government then directs the tuition payment, which the government assures to all students, to the school of choice.

Rahter than the current tyrranical system, parents should have a choice.

Heh, you quoted yourself.

That's a decent idea but you are forgetting that there are many many people who are against their tax dollars being used to support religious schools. They are within their right to object to that, just as many Christians oppose to their tax dollars being used by the government to fund abortion.

 
Many churches do not really teach much about the bible. People go to church and the minister reads something from the new testament and they dont really study the bible much. Hardly any bible was study was done in the Catholic Church that I can remember, when I was in the Catholic Church as a young man.

I will give you an example. In the Mormon Church high school student have 4 years of scriptural studies on the Old Testament, the New testament, the Book of Mormon, and the Pearl of great price with the docrtrine and covenants. The Mormon Church also has weekly activities and service projects and other outside activities. We really do teach children how to resist and fight against what we consider to be against the teachings of the church. This includes keeping the Sabath Day holy and not using stores on Sunday if at all possible. We feel it is wrong to make people work on Sunday, so we do not go to the store or restraunts on Sunday, because that may cause someone to have to work on Sunday. We also believe that smoking and drinking Alcohol is wrong because it enslaves you to those products. A man can only have one God. To not smoke or drink is to have truly free will and an unclouded mind.
 
Originally posted by: Riprorin
According to Smithwick, this outcome should come as no surprise, considering the fact that secular humanists are currently shaping America. He notes that socialism, a political and economic philosophy that commonly emphasizes government control and redistribution of wealth over personal responsibility and private ownership, often goes hand in hand with secularist attitudes and a generally non-biblical worldview.

I guess this means Jesus was not a christian for advocating the redistribution of wealth from the rich merchants to the poor and needy.

Rip, go post this crap somewhere else. Better yet GET OFF AT Forums, GO OUTSIDE and see the world from other peoples perspectives, that is a place where there is more than one viewpoint and one perspective, yes that means your viewpoint and your perspective.
 
:roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:


EDIT: not enuff rolls to do this atrocity of a thread justice
 
yeah, i was duped by the public school system: they constantly tell me they will give me full health coverage and they never do.

by the by, my private (catholic) education was a joke. the only reason i know anything is because i chose to teach myself and actually do the work. kids smoked pot in the classroom, had abortions in the bathroom and more than one teacher was let go for sexual inappropriateness with the students (including the principal who is still in litigation concerning homosexual molestation)

(ok, i made up the part about abortions in the bathroom but i felt like it would really scare the crap out of rip)
 
posted by Riporin:

"If you want your kids brainwashed, send them to church."

Fixed it for you.

alzan

 
Back
Top