NTMBK
Lifer
- Nov 14, 2011
- 10,411
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Looks like my 3570k will last me at least until Skylake...
Lack of PCIe Sata in Haswell-E is truely unacceptable, as NAND can easily scale up to at least 4gByte/s and remove the need for wasting ram as cache for mundane tasks.
Lack of PCIe Sata in Haswell-E is truely unacceptable, as NAND can easily scale up to at least 4gByte/s and remove the need for wasting ram as cache for mundane tasks.
couple of things wrong here
1. Haswell's overclocking suffers from the same problem Ivybridge does, and that's high temps due to the TIM issue.
With these s2011 chips having a TDP well over 100 (normally 130-150) it seems very unlikely that intel wouldn't solder these chips and thus temps shouldn't be an issue outside of the rig's cooling ability
2. SB-E only has a lower overclock potential because its a much bigger chip. Give the chip and motherboard proper cooling and it will clock every bit as high as Sandy. Excellent evidence is in how the quadcore i7 3820 could very well be a candidate for intel's highest average overclock...
you're otherwise right about s2011 and how intel hasn't given us everything they could have. Touting Haswell-E as the first consumer 8 core is a joke when they could very well give it to us right now as SandyE is a native 8 core, and IvyE will also be on 22nm and thus they have little excuse other than wanting less reasons for people to stick with their older x79 rigs
Time scale what are we talking about with regards to 2014? If is December 2014 then that is a long way off waiting for an upgrade. If it is early 2014 then it might be worth waiting for.
So by the same logic do you conclude that AMD has been holding back a 16c processor from desktop? Yaknow...since they have a 16c server CPU and all. Why is AMD not 'giving us all they could have' when they are already behind?
Bigger question is why haven't they downported either C32 or G34 to be a ultra-high end "desktop". (preferably G34)
IntelUser2000
Elite Member
- Oct 14, 2003
- 8,686
- 3,787
- 136
Ivy Bridge E isn't even out yet, and is slated to be Q3. So give it a year at least, so that's 2014 Q3-Q4.
toyota
Lifer
- Apr 15, 2001
- 12,957
- 1
- 0
um I think his point is that the 6 core cpus are just 8 core cpus with 2 cores disabled. thats not analogous to amd having a completely different 16 core server chip than there 8 core desktop chip.
Kougar
Senior member
- Apr 25, 2002
- 398
- 1
- 76
November on-wards. This slide is pretty clear about it. http://wccftech.com/intel-roadmap-leaks-haswell-e-lituya-bay-hedt-platform/
Given past boards that used different types of DDR memory it's probably quite doable for a manufacturer to simply plop down DDR3 slots instead of DDR4. But we're talking about the high-end enthusiast platform here, if somenoe's paying more to buy into the platform then the vast majority of them will want the best memory option available to match. Now if we were talking about a mainstream or budget market platform, then somebody probably would do it on one or two models.
Haswell has an integrated VRM system and that required a new socket, so Haswell-E would require a new socket for the same reason.
Well, yeah, but that reaction is 2 sockets behind. The great divide came with X58.
My prediction is that intel will not have a $500 8 core sku and it will only be available at the highest tier. $1k +
Or maybe they will have a $560 8C/16T model and a few months later Skylake finally brings Intel hexa-cores to mainstream.
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Grooveriding
Diamond Member
- Dec 25, 2008
- 9,147
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I think so too, 6 core 5930K and an 8 core 5960X. Assuming they continue to only provide two chips for the enthusiast platform. Alternately they could make a 5930K/5940K and 5960X/5970X type situation to have 6&8 core chips at each level, but not sure how they would try to price that as obviously the two additional cores would require a tangible price bump.
I suppose they could increase price points above the $1K level but they seem to be pretty consistent on how they price everything. This is why I also think it will be 6 core $550 5930K and 8 core $1000 5960X. This would make some good sense as right now there is a mild difference between a 3930K and 3960X with some more cache and a negligible clock speed bump which is negated when you start overclocking both chips. Having two additional cores in the X chip would make that additional $500 make a lot more sense for some buyers.
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And desktop was beating the door down for 8 cores/16thread? Not really, there hasn't even been much demand on 6c/12t, and it's still dwarfed by people on 4c/4t, let alone 4c/8t.
Putting out an 8c top bin CPU at max cores on the xeon die is $$$...not a lot of market for a $2k+ desktop chip on SNB-E. The market that demands 8c/16t buy them on the xeon line. The potential desktop market at 8c/16t that would pony up the dough is a niche within niche. Especially once you realize that with 8 full cores your clocks are generally going to be lower and have lower OC potential than a 6c cpu- it just wouldn't make sense to do at that time.
With Haswell-E 8c should be able to yield decently- they should be able to produce it for a price that is reasonable for the top of the desktop market. Also the demand for 8c/16t is finally gaining steam as people are increasingly opting for 4c/8t to 'future proof'. Seems like ideal timing, IMO.
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no, the logic doesn't transtlate as that chip is pretty much strictly designed for server functionality, much like how Intel's own 10+ core chips are.
the difference is that my 3930K has the transistors already in it for 8 cores, but only 6 are functional; the point is that if Intel wanted to, they could have released a consumer 8 core SB-E chip (if I really wanted to, I could go buy an 8 core Xeon to use, but without the ability to overclock it, my current 4.7GHz 3930K is actually a faster part) or could do so at least for Ivy-E due to die shrink, instead we'll have to wait for yet another year+.
Yet there are a few people here that claim that that big gap under the IHS and 22nm CPU' die is due to fragility of the underlying process itself and thermal cycling that occur there would have increased the RMA rates by 000.1% thus decreasing margins by 0.01% which is unacceptable. So I don't bet on an soldered IVY-E or HW-E
RussianSensation
Elite Member
- Sep 5, 2003
- 19,458
- 765
- 126
The situation was different with Haswell. Haswell was ready to go but AIBs asked Intel to delay the launch due to so much unsold IVB inventory.
Intel has Haswell refresh in 2014, Haswell-E and Skylake by 1H 2015.
You might have a situation of Skylake launching just 6-8 months after HW-E with SATA Express and 14nm node. That means the fastest gaming performance and SATA access will be on Intel's mainstream platform less than 12 months after the uber expensive HW-E launches. This is why the Socket 1366 strategy made a lot more sense. You paid a premium to have the best before anyone else. Right now Intel is asking a premium for moar cores but sells an outdated feature set / CPU architecture. Essentially what they now call the "Enthusiast" platform is really a workstation platform. How can you have an "enthusiast" platform with inferior storage and gaming capabilities than your "performance" platform that costs hundreds less?
So...Ivy E is pretty much SB E.
+ the low ipc increase within margin of error.
If Ivy E aint 8 core - then wtf is that point of it?
Bah Intel.
Bah.
Geuss ill be upgrading massively @ maxwell\volcanic and Haswell E.
Even if we're a small minority - when there's people ready to throw money at you as long as you deliver some unlocked versions of your ALREADY WORKING SERVER DESIGN SKU's - them choosing not to take our money is shite.
Steamroller better make Intel sweat enough to keep focusing on highend desktop.
+ the low ipc increase within margin of error.
If Ivy E aint 8 core - then wtf is that point of it?
Bah Intel.
Bah.
Geuss ill be upgrading massively @ maxwell\volcanic and Haswell E.
Even if we're a small minority - when there's people ready to throw money at you as long as you deliver some unlocked versions of your ALREADY WORKING SERVER DESIGN SKU's - them choosing not to take our money is shite.
Steamroller better make Intel sweat enough to keep focusing on highend desktop.
I was thinking the exact same thing. Here's to hope the pricing of the processor and DDR4 would be "acceptable" when it comes out....
Arachnotronic
Lifer
- Mar 10, 2006
- 11,715
- 2,012
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Haswell Refresh is just a warmed over Haswell. It makes no sense to bring Broadwell to desktops, particularly as the manufacturing process is probably designed for even lower power, which means overclocking headroom won't be improved, and the extra transistors will be spent on iGPU, which LGA desktop users don't want/care about anyway.
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