Has ATI given up the high end race?

[SlowSpyder]

Just wanted to point out to the OP that the answer appears to be no, they are not abandoning the high end. In fact they may be the only option at the high end come end of year.

 

[Seero]

Just wanted to point out to the OP that the answer appears to be no, they are not abandoning the high end. In fact they may be the only option at the high end come end of year.

I found it very interesting. First I didn't realized the date when I read, and if i haven't read wrong people were saying that 2x4850 > 280 at a much cheaper cost and therefore not ATI is not giving up the high-end market and post threat to Nvidia.

However, when the table turn, people's opinions about the idea also change. 2x460 beats every single core card at 400 bucks in total. Those who said "No, ATI isn't giving up and is very competitive" and the ones who say "Nvidia is giving up and is not competitive" today...

 

[SlowSpyder]

I found it very interesting. First I didn't realized the date when I read, and if i haven't read wrong people were saying that 2x4850 > 280 at a much cheaper cost and therefore not ATI is not giving up the high-end market and post threat to Nvidia.

However, when the table turn, people's opinions about the idea also change. 2x460 beats every single core card at 400 bucks in total. Those who said "No, ATI isn't giving up and is very competitive" and the ones who say "Nvidia is giving up and is not competitive" today...

I saw this thread the other day when I was searching for something else and just figured I'd bump it to show how things can come full circle in this industry. I don't believe for a second that Nvidia is giving up either. But it looks like they might be playing second fiddle in the performance race for a little while.

 

[Red Storm]

I found it very interesting. First I didn't realized the date when I read, and if i haven't read wrong people were saying that 2x4850 > 280 at a much cheaper cost and therefore not ATI is not giving up the high-end market and post threat to Nvidia.

However, when the table turn, people's opinions about the idea also change. 2x460 beats every single core card at 400 bucks in total. Those who said "No, ATI isn't giving up and is very competitive" and the ones who say "Nvidia is giving up and is not competitive" today...

Well I believe it was only being referred to single GPUs, not dual setups. There are a lot of people out there (myself included) who only buy and use a single card. I'm not interested in SLI or CF, so the worry for me was that AMD would stop making high performing single GPUs, which wouldn't be good for competition/prices. Thankfully that isn't the case, we can still get good performing single GPU cards from both sides.

 

[badb0y]

My my how times have changed...

 

[Bill Brasky]

An interesting bump indeed. G80 was an amazing release in it's day.

 

[lavaheadache]

Classic Post......

It's not an answer either, as the card is not out yet, so your claims of performance are meaningless. The 4870 will be slower than a 8600GT.



Because it's an older product that has been replaced even though it's still a faster GPU than anything from it's competitor.


Because it's not their high end part.


They don't


Once again your lack of knowledge regarding the subject matter shines through. You don't just pry a GPU out of a video card and plop it into a notebook. Changes can be made to the GT200 series to make it a mobile version, jut like the G80 and G92.


Or more. Very last gen.


No, not really. You are still talking of using 2 GPUs to = 1 GPU. Even then you don't know when it will be available, how well it will work or if it will even be using the same chips.

 

[Grooveriding]

Classic Post......

Before the GTX 480 came out he was making claims it would be faster than a 5970 all over the forums.

I offered him a $100 bet via paypal if that was the case, just to prove he doesn't even believe what he posts, but just posts to get a negative reaction.

Needless to say, he didn't take me up on it.

And look at things now. AMD(ATI) is now the performance leader and nvidia is mainly pushing mid-range cards.

 

[Caribbean Geek]

How my God, how wrong the OP was. "The HD 4870 1GB will be slower than the 8600GT", that's scary.

 

[Seero]

Before the GTX 480 came out he was making claims it would be faster than a 5970 all over the forums.

I offered him a $100 bet via paypal if that was the case, just to prove he doesn't even believe what he posts, but just posts to get a negative reaction.

Needless to say, he didn't take me up on it.

And look at things now. AMD(ATI) is now the performance leader and nvidia is mainly pushing mid-range cards.

Define performance leader. 480 > 5870. 2x 460 = 5970 at 75% of the cost, and 5970 = 2x5850 in one card. Yes, Nvidia can put 2x460 into one card, but user can also put 2 cards in their PC.

 

[Grooveriding]

Define performance leader. 480 > 5870. 2x 460 = 5970 at 75% of the cost, and 5970 = 2x5850 in one card. Yes, Nvidia can put 2x460 into one card, but user can also put 2 cards in their PC.

My interpretation goes beyond just the specifics of cards. But, for that topic 5970 is the fastest video card on the market. If nvidia can put two 460s on one card, that only becomes relevant when they have done so, and you can buy one.

There is a good chance they can't, because of not being able to keep the card below the 300w power spec.

And beyond card specifics, AMD is ahead of nvidia in release cycles, we had 7 months of the 5870 being the single gpu leader while nvidia caught up and released their 480. 480 has been out for five months, in the next few months AMD is releasing their 6 series, which again will be faster than the 480. Nvidia has no new series coming anytime soon, they still haven't even finished rolling out their current 4XX series lineup.

And throughout the past year 5970 has been the fastest card on the market and soon 6990 will arrive raising that bar even higher. So AMD is the performance leader in my book for not only having the fastest card but delivering higher performing parts faster than nvidia is.

 

[RussianSensation]

I am pretty sure that threads along the lines of "NVidia is going bankrupt in 3 years", "ATI can't compete on high end", "ATi drivers suck", "PhysX, 3D vision is the future and ATI will fail because they don't have them" are nothing more than:

1) the OP is bored
2) trolling
3) fanboism

I mean let's take this thread for example. ATI still has the best high-end card with the 5970, has basically embarrassed 1st generation of NV cards and on top of that had the best performing card (5870) for 6 months+. Now they are about to launch a full new generation with NV having nothing to bring to the table for who knows how long.

Facepalm. :thumbsdown:

 

[HurleyBird]

Right now ATI and Nvidia are pretty close in performance. Who has the crown depends on how you define it. In a coulpe months though, chances are ATI will have another 6-month lead.

 

[Genx87]

My interpretation goes beyond just the specifics of cards. But, for that topic 5970 is the fastest video card on the market. If nvidia can put two 460s on one card, that only becomes relevant when they have done so, and you can buy one.

There is a good chance they can't, because of not being able to keep the card below the 300w power spec.

And beyond card specifics, AMD is ahead of nvidia in release cycles, we had 7 months of the 5870 being the single gpu leader while nvidia caught up and released their 480. 480 has been out for five months, in the next few months AMD is releasing their 6 series, which again will be faster than the 480. Nvidia has no new series coming anytime soon, they still haven't even finished rolling out their current 4XX series lineup.

And throughout the past year 5970 has been the fastest card on the market and soon 6990 will arrive raising that bar even higher. So AMD is the performance leader in my book for not only having the fastest card but delivering higher performing parts faster than nvidia is.

So besides the 5970 Nvidia is the performance leader for 480 vs 5870 and 470 vs 5850 and 460 vs 5830. So really they(AMD) arent the performance leader now are they?

 

[badb0y]

What? 5970>gtx 480>5870>470>5850>460>5830.

How are they not performance leaders when the 5970 leads the pack and basically is chilling at the top alone.

 

[Janooo]

Right now ATI and Nvidia are pretty close in performance. Who has the crown depends on how you define it. In a coulpe months though, chances are ATI will have another 6-month lead.

Most likely it will be more.

 

[smackababy]

So besides the 5970 Nvidia is the performance leader for 480 vs 5870 and 470 vs 5850 and 460 vs 5830. So really they(AMD) arent the performance leader now are they?

Except AMD has the fastest single card solution. They have THE FASTEST single card solution. They are the performance leader.

 

[Genx87]

What? 5970>gtx 480>5870>470>5850>460>5830.

How are they not performance leaders when the 5970 leads the pack and basically is chilling at the top alone.

One card out of 4 segments? Every other segment except the dual GPU segment AMD loses to the competing product from Nvidia. Which contradicts his comment that says "And look at things now. AMD(ATI) is now the performance leader and nvidia is mainly pushing mid-range cards. "

Unless the 480 and 470 are now mid range cards. Which they clearly are not. I dont even consider the 460 a mid range card. Upper mid range at best.

 

[Janooo]

What? 5970>gtx 480>5870>470>5850>460>5830.

How are they not performance leaders when the 5970 leads the pack and basically is chilling at the top alone.

What's more surprising is that according to Steam AMD sold more 5970s than NV 480s in the last month.

 

[Grooveriding]

Unless the 480 and 470 are now mid range cards. Which they clearly are not. I dont even consider the 460 a mid range card. Upper mid range at best.

The 480 and 470 are going to be midrange cards in a few months once AMD's 6 series flagship is out.

Which will be great for people who want a powerful card for a good price or for those who refuse to use anything but nvidia regardless of AMD having better performance. I don't think anyone will be complaining about $300 GTX 480s.

5970 is the fastest card on the market. AMD is the performance leader.

What's the point in arguing it and trying to break it down to semantics. It has always been the consensus that the fastest card you can buy is the fastest card there is. That is the 5970.

 

[badb0y]

Gen87 don't spout rubbish, those cards were designed to perform slightly faster since you know they came 6 months+ afterwards but the fact that 5970 is still unmatched is quite unsettling.

 

[Caribbean Geek]

The 480 and 470 are going to be midrange cards in a few months once AMD's 6 series flagship is out.

Which will be great for people who want a powerful card for a good price or for those who refuse to use anything but nvidia regardless of AMD having better performance. I don't think anyone will be complaining about $300 GTX 480s.

5970 is the fastest card on the market. AMD is the performance leader.

What's the point in arguing it and trying to break it down to semantics. It has always been the consensus that the fastest card you can buy is the fastest card there is. That is the 5970.

That's totally true, nVidia is dropping the prices of the GTX 460 almost on a daily basis. AMD has the crown in performance, HD 5970>480>5870>470>5850>460 1GB>5830>460 768, that's undisputable. I do hope that nVidia puts their stuff together, I don't want an HD 6870 having the same MSRP for 8 months.

 

[Seero]

My interpretation goes beyond just the specifics of cards. But, for that topic 5970 is the fastest video card on the market. If nvidia can put two 460s on one card, that only becomes relevant when they have done so, and you can buy one.

There is a good chance they can't, because of not being able to keep the card below the 300w power spec.

And beyond card specifics, AMD is ahead of nvidia in release cycles, we had 7 months of the 5870 being the single gpu leader while nvidia caught up and released their 480. 480 has been out for five months, in the next few months AMD is releasing their 6 series, which again will be faster than the 480. Nvidia has no new series coming anytime soon, they still haven't even finished rolling out their current 4XX series lineup.

And throughout the past year 5970 has been the fastest card on the market and soon 6990 will arrive raising that bar even higher. So AMD is the performance leader in my book for not only having the fastest card but delivering higher performing parts faster than nvidia is.

It seems you are ahead of yourself. Where can I get 6xxx series today? You are assuming that by the time 6xxx comes, it will be faster than 480. You are also assuming that Nvidia have nothing going against that series.

If you are looking at the time of the chip announcement, Cypress was released at September 22 last year, and Fermi was released March 26 this year. It is 6 months difference, not 7. Maybe you didn't know that the availability of Cypress upon release date was worst than the availability of Fermi. Granted, 5870 had the fastest hat for 6 months, but for the pass 6 months, 480 is the fastest single core GPU, and 2x460 is a better solution for multiple GPU. Granted, 5970 is indeed the fastest single card solution, and therefore its price is on the roof (WTF 800+!!!) where 2x460 is at 400 bucks.

I don't know about you, but I won't buy the single card solution of 2x460 if it isn't selling for 400 bucks.

In terms of power consumption, 5970 exceed the 300watt mark and use as much electricity as 2x460.

Seriously, $800 vs $400? Back then it was a dual GPU vs a single GPU, but now is dual GPU vs dual GPU...

 

[tviceman]

Right now ATI and Nvidia are pretty close in performance. Who has the crown depends on how you define it. In a coulpe months though, chances are ATI will have another 6-month lead.

I think ATI will capture the high end again here soon, but I don't think they're going to hold on to it for as long this time. My guess is that Fermi II - a revision - is coming early 2011. I just don't see Nvidia not refreshing their high end parts with improvements and tweaks before 28nm because, if for no other reason, that is just an awfully long time to go without product updates in the GPU market.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Well, Extelleron was dead right. Quite funny to see him actually be logical and reasonable and then others, like the OP, be completely gloom and doom. Ridiculous.

I am pretty sure that threads along the lines of "NVidia is going bankrupt in 3 years", "ATI can't compete on high end", "ATi drivers suck", "PhysX, 3D vision is the future and ATI will fail because they don't have them" are nothing more than:

1) the OP is bored
2) trolling
3) fanboism

I mean let's take this thread for example. ATI still has the best high-end card with the 5970, has basically embarrassed 1st generation of NV cards and on top of that had the best performing card (5870) for 6 months+. Now they are about to launch a full new generation with NV having nothing to bring to the table for who knows how long.

Facepalm. :thumbsdown:

I agree. :thumbsup: