has anyone used a cold air intaker in their vehicles

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: Wuzup101

Originally posted by: Iron Woode

Originally posted by: Wuzup101

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Wuzup101
Care to point out where I'm wrong?

I shouldn't have to in all honesty. It's glaringly apparent.

No go ahead though, I'd like to hear it. While I didn't preach about how forced induciton systems work, the differences between a belt driven S/C and a turbo feeding off the exhaust (to produce the same BASIC) effect, etc... I'd like to have more than a childish "you're wrong." Hey, I'm here to learn too. All of the systems above in some manner increase power by increasing the amonut of O2 that can be fed into the combustion chamber. I wasn't trying to write a thesis on the subject, just say that that's the same basic idea. With more O2 you can burn more fuel which leads to more power.

I am not sure which point Spidey is unhappy with, but Super-Chargers and Turbos increase apparent compression ratio and that is why they generate more power. O2 concentration stays the same.

Yes and no. Yes, they do increase the apparent compression ratio (and yes this does also inrease power). However, the O2 concentration doesn't stay the same. The compression (of the air) itself increases the O2 concentration (the amout per unit volume). Hehe, I wasn't trying to say that a CAI and a turbo or S/C were the same thing by any means in my origional post (I thought I pointed that out), just that similar thinking was involved.

I will make this simpler for you to understand:

all the S/C does is compress the air. It does not change the ratio of O2:N. It does not remove nitrogen from the incoming air. It just compresses it so it takes up less space and is more densely packed. It also heats up the incoming air charge, so a cooler is a good idea when running lots of boost.

air is always 21% O2 and 78% N.

 

[Evadman]

Originally posted by: Journer
wow there are a lot of dumbasses on here...

Duh.

Originally posted by: Journer
dont waste your $$...if you want mileage gains..tune your tranny, cpu, or rear/front end...if you want more power go with a supercharger or turbo setup, although in your case a supercharge will be much easier. there can be mileage gains from forced induction but its usually the opposite do to richer tuning and pedal to the metal

IIRC, if he as the V8 it is the new HEMI. The runners on that are perfect for a roots type supercharger. Though that would be $5K+ instead of $300

 

[Wuzup101]

Originally posted by: xXped0thugXx

Originally posted by: Wuzup101

Originally posted by: xXped0thugXx

Originally posted by: Stumps

Originally posted by: xXped0thugXx
Wuzup's description was fine IMHO. If you need some expansion on S/C vs T/C than let me put it in lamens terms. T/C is like a hairdryer constantly blowing cool air into the engine. S/C is like oh i dont even know but it recycles the exhaust air and blows that into the engine. Like a constant blower, as sometimes they are referred as. But seeing as this post was just about a CAI, than all this is irrelevant. Either way post stands as earlier you will feel minimal HP gains , no gas mileage difference. If you opened up the exhaust with a V8's back pressure you and a CAI you will notice a good difference.

BAH HAHAHAHAHAHA that is the biggest load of crap I have ever read.



A TurboCharger (correct term is TurboSupercharger) uses exhaust gases to spin the impeller on the turbine which then compresses the airflow in to the engine.

A Supercharger uses mechanical means (usually a pulley system) to spin the impeller on the Turbine.

other than these differences a Turbo and Supercharger work in the same way, although a supercharge ahs many different impeller/rotor types to compress the air.

A Cold Air Intake is nothing more than an inlet for the airbox to provide a cleaner source of air for the engine, most horsepower gains are purely through the cold air charge that enter the engine rather than the little if any compression of the air, A RamCharger is an example of a Cold Air Intake.

Nitrous Oxide (N2O) provides a power increase by providing the engine with a massive short term increase in Oxygen, along with the cooling effects of Nitrogen which cools the air/fuel charge entering the engine.

Are you insane, a S/C isnt considered forced air induction like a T/C . A S/C moves air simply from the intake port to the discharge port. It really has no internal compression ration. The compression is done in the intake manifold. Thr reasoin that superchargers run hotter is because they tend to take some compressed air from the intake back to the supercharger which gets trapped in the rotating lobes, which are already exposed to the hotter air of the intake manifold. This in turn creates low to mid range power while a T/C creates mid to high range power, taking into account the spinning of the ball bearings. Bigger the ball bearings the longer the spin up, but once it gets going the faster it will be.

They are both forced induction. The main difference is where they draw their power from. A turbo's compressor is powered by the exhaust stream running through a turbine which is connected to the compressor. A supercharger gets it's power via a belt attached to the engine itself... that is what power's a S/C's compressor... they both compress air...

yea youre right, sorry reading blurry here. I musta mistook T/C for S/C , i knew one used exhaust stream , I forgot it was the T/C. But everything I explained about the S/C in my last post was correct.

You're talking about a Roots S/C... and you're right they don't actually compress air in the actual housing... but other types of S/C's do.

 

[Journer]

Originally posted by: Evadman

Originally posted by: Journer
wow there are a lot of dumbasses on here...

Duh.

Originally posted by: Journer
dont waste your $$...if you want mileage gains..tune your tranny, cpu, or rear/front end...if you want more power go with a supercharger or turbo setup, although in your case a supercharge will be much easier. there can be mileage gains from forced induction but its usually the opposite do to richer tuning and pedal to the metal

IIRC, if he as the V8 it is the new HEMI. The runners on that are perfect for a roots type supercharger. Though that would be $5K+ instead of $300

yah...$300? who the hell pays 300 for a CAI...man...there are dumb people in the world, lol...

he could go with a centerfugial supercharger and you could get the parts for as little as 2-3k...install would be under 1k...but thats without tuning and not everything you need to make it perfect

for those who dont know...a centerfugial supercharger is essntial a turbo with the exhaust side replaced with a pully system...it is easier to install because you dont have to modify the intake manifold (or replace it) or the heads..all you do is bolt it on...hook it up to the belt system..install the oil lines...and install the new intake tubing and thats it for the supercharger itself...

 

[Wuzup101]

Originally posted by: Iron Woode

Originally posted by: Wuzup101

Originally posted by: Iron Woode

Originally posted by: Wuzup101

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Wuzup101
Care to point out where I'm wrong?

I shouldn't have to in all honesty. It's glaringly apparent.

No go ahead though, I'd like to hear it. While I didn't preach about how forced induciton systems work, the differences between a belt driven S/C and a turbo feeding off the exhaust (to produce the same BASIC) effect, etc... I'd like to have more than a childish "you're wrong." Hey, I'm here to learn too. All of the systems above in some manner increase power by increasing the amonut of O2 that can be fed into the combustion chamber. I wasn't trying to write a thesis on the subject, just say that that's the same basic idea. With more O2 you can burn more fuel which leads to more power.

I am not sure which point Spidey is unhappy with, but Super-Chargers and Turbos increase apparent compression ratio and that is why they generate more power. O2 concentration stays the same.

Yes and no. Yes, they do increase the apparent compression ratio (and yes this does also inrease power). However, the O2 concentration doesn't stay the same. The compression (of the air) itself increases the O2 concentration (the amout per unit volume). Hehe, I wasn't trying to say that a CAI and a turbo or S/C were the same thing by any means in my origional post (I thought I pointed that out), just that similar thinking was involved.

I will make this simpler for you to understand:

all the S/C does is compress the air. It does not change the ratio of O2:N. It does not remove nitrogen from the incoming air. It just compresses it so it takes up less space and is more densely packed. It also heats up the incoming air charge, so a cooler is a good idea when running lots of boost.

air is always 21% O2 and 78% N.

Sorry, when I was refering to increasing the concentration, I was thinking in terms of mol/m^3 or something of that effect. I wasn't implying that the ratio of gasses to eachother was changing, simply that they were being compressed. I was using "concentration" to mean the amount of molecules of the gas in a fixed volume (which increases when the gas is compressed). It seems we're arguing about the same thing here hehe. I'm not trying to imply that a FI system changes the ratio of O2 to N2 in air...

 

[Black88GTA]

Originally posted by: Journer
wow there are a lot of dumbasses on here...

a CAI will NOT improve horsepower and the gas mileage gains would be extremely minimal (like... .3+ mpg)...
unless you have a car that can utilize a lot of air (turbo or supercharger) there is NO point...you will NOT notice a power increase..it will all be in your head...

however...a K&N will help, but only because you wont have to change it so often...yes it does offer superior flow, but unless you have a car that can utilize it, it doesnt help.

dont waste your $$...if you want mileage gains..tune your tranny, cpu, or rear/front end...if you want more power go with a supercharger or turbo setup, although in your case a supercharge will be much easier. there can be mileage gains from forced induction but its usually the opposite do to richer tuning and pedal to the metal

A CAI will improve horsepower on some cars. It would operate on the same principle as adding a less restrictive exhaust, only from the other end. It all depends where the biggest "bottleneck" in the intake / exhaust system lies.

If you have a 1.5 inch single-tip exhaust on a V8 and replace that with a full dual 3" system, obviously you will see more horsepower. Same thing with the intake...if your factory intake is incredibly restrictive and you open it up with a CAI, your overall airflow will increase, and you'll gain a little power. Key words there being "a little" - most factory intake systems aren't so restrictive that a simple CAI addition would add very noticeable gains. It would probably be ~3hp max.

A K&N IMO isn't worth it. You get slightly better airflow - at the expense of filtration capability. ~1 extra HP isn't worth extra particles in the engine.

 

[Stumps]

Originally posted by: xXped0thugXx

Originally posted by: Stumps

Originally posted by: xXped0thugXx
Wuzup's description was fine IMHO. If you need some expansion on S/C vs T/C than let me put it in lamens terms. T/C is like a hairdryer constantly blowing cool air into the engine. S/C is like oh i dont even know but it recycles the exhaust air and blows that into the engine. Like a constant blower, as sometimes they are referred as. But seeing as this post was just about a CAI, than all this is irrelevant. Either way post stands as earlier you will feel minimal HP gains , no gas mileage difference. If you opened up the exhaust with a V8's back pressure you and a CAI you will notice a good difference.

BAH HAHAHAHAHAHA that is the biggest load of crap I have ever read.



A TurboCharger (correct term is TurboSupercharger) uses exhaust gases to spin the impeller on the turbine which then compresses the airflow in to the engine.

A Supercharger uses mechanical means (usually a pulley system) to spin the impeller on the Turbine.

other than these differences a Turbo and Supercharger work in the same way, although a supercharge ahs many different impeller/rotor types to compress the air.

A Cold Air Intake is nothing more than an inlet for the airbox to provide a cleaner source of air for the engine, most horsepower gains are purely through the cold air charge that enter the engine rather than the little if any compression of the air, A RamCharger is an example of a Cold Air Intake.

Nitrous Oxide (N2O) provides a power increase by providing the engine with a massive short term increase in Oxygen, along with the cooling effects of Nitrogen which cools the air/fuel charge entering the engine.

Are you insane, a S/C isnt considered forced air induction like a T/C . A S/C moves air simply from the intake port to the discharge port. It really has no internal compression ration. The compression is done in the intake manifold. Thr reasoin that superchargers run hotter is because they tend to take some compressed air from the intake back to the supercharger which gets trapped in the rotating lobes, which are already exposed to the hotter air of the intake manifold. This in turn creates low to mid range power while a T/C creates mid to high range power, taking into account the spinning of the ball bearings. Bigger the ball bearings the longer the spin up, but once it gets going the faster it will be.

wrong again...better go read up before posting again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercharger

there are plenty of other technical sources on the net about SuperCharging, but wiki's the quickest and easiest.

 

[lyssword]

Go for it, since the engine is big + powerful, you'll see much more improvement than if you were to put it into a weak 4cyl..

 

[I Saw OJ]

Originally posted by: Stumps

Originally posted by: xXped0thugXx

Originally posted by: Stumps

Originally posted by: xXped0thugXx
Wuzup's description was fine IMHO. If you need some expansion on S/C vs T/C than let me put it in lamens terms. T/C is like a hairdryer constantly blowing cool air into the engine. S/C is like oh i dont even know but it recycles the exhaust air and blows that into the engine. Like a constant blower, as sometimes they are referred as. But seeing as this post was just about a CAI, than all this is irrelevant. Either way post stands as earlier you will feel minimal HP gains , no gas mileage difference. If you opened up the exhaust with a V8's back pressure you and a CAI you will notice a good difference.

BAH HAHAHAHAHAHA that is the biggest load of crap I have ever read.



A TurboCharger (correct term is TurboSupercharger) uses exhaust gases to spin the impeller on the turbine which then compresses the airflow in to the engine.

A Supercharger uses mechanical means (usually a pulley system) to spin the impeller on the Turbine.

other than these differences a Turbo and Supercharger work in the same way, although a supercharge ahs many different impeller/rotor types to compress the air.

A Cold Air Intake is nothing more than an inlet for the airbox to provide a cleaner source of air for the engine, most horsepower gains are purely through the cold air charge that enter the engine rather than the little if any compression of the air, A RamCharger is an example of a Cold Air Intake.

Nitrous Oxide (N2O) provides a power increase by providing the engine with a massive short term increase in Oxygen, along with the cooling effects of Nitrogen which cools the air/fuel charge entering the engine.

Are you insane, a S/C isnt considered forced air induction like a T/C . A S/C moves air simply from the intake port to the discharge port. It really has no internal compression ration. The compression is done in the intake manifold. Thr reasoin that superchargers run hotter is because they tend to take some compressed air from the intake back to the supercharger which gets trapped in the rotating lobes, which are already exposed to the hotter air of the intake manifold. This in turn creates low to mid range power while a T/C creates mid to high range power, taking into account the spinning of the ball bearings. Bigger the ball bearings the longer the spin up, but once it gets going the faster it will be.

wrong again...better go read up before posting again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercharger

there are plenty of other technical sources on the net about SuperCharging, but wiki's the quickest and easiest.

Some roots type blowers do compress the air before it enters the manifold, some don?t, and it depends on the brand/model. The Eaton M112 on my Cobra doesn?t do the compressing in itself, but inside the manifold. However there are Kenne Bell replacements, which are roots type blowers that do, do the compressing themselves.

There is a lot of misinformation in this thread, the gains you will experience from a CAI will depend on a few factors.

1. How well the stock intake system is engineered.
2. How well the upgraded CAI is engineered
3. How good of a job the CAI does at pulling outside cool air in, and keeping warm, engine air out.

These people who are comparing FI super and turbo chargers to a CAI are comparing apples to oranges, you really can?t compare the two.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Wuzup101
No go ahead though, I'd like to hear it. While I didn't preach about how forced induciton systems work, the differences between a belt driven S/C and a turbo feeding off the exhaust (to produce the same BASIC) effect, etc... I'd like to have more than a childish "you're wrong." Hey, I'm here to learn too. All of the systems above in some manner increase power by increasing the amonut of O2 that can be fed into the combustion chamber. I wasn't trying to write a thesis on the subject, just say that that's the same basic idea. With more O2 you can burn more fuel which leads to more power.

Sorry. I was rude last night and cranky. I appologize.

Anyway, I just didn't agree with lumping them all together...espeically about power gains - CAI and forced induction. Sure maybe the concept is remotely similar they do it very differently.

Sorry for being rude.