has anyone used a cold air intaker in their vehicles

[OS]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: OS
i have one, i generally like it. It does improve power modestly, but i don't see a gas mileage benefit. Adds nice sound too.

It does have typical aftermarket minor issues, the sealing is not perfect at the ends, i had to use additional sealing tape and it rattled against the chassis until i wrapped it in rubber.

Most of the reason I've seen them used for is the sound they make at WOT. It really opens up the sound of an I4. But man the installs can get pretty ghetto looking. Chicken wire and zip ties and PVC pipes. Heh.

Mine wasn't that bad, it still looks nice, if not on the bling side. But my exterior is stock down to hubcaps except for tint, so no one ever sees it anyways.

I remember reading somewhere you're not supposed to use PVC stuff under the hood, something like it gives off dangerous fumes or something.

 

[Wuzup101]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Wuzup101
Care to point out where I'm wrong?

I shouldn't have to in all honesty. It's glaringly apparent.

No go ahead though, I'd like to hear it. While I didn't preach about how forced induciton systems work, the differences between a belt driven S/C and a turbo feeding off the exhaust (to produce the same BASIC) effect, etc... I'd like to have more than a childish "you're wrong." Hey, I'm here to learn too. All of the systems above in some manner increase power by increasing the amonut of O2 that can be fed into the combustion chamber. I wasn't trying to write a thesis on the subject, just say that that's the same basic idea. With more O2 you can burn more fuel which leads to more power.

 

[JasonCoder]

Originally posted by: Wuzup101

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Wuzup101

Originally posted by: newParadigm

Originally posted by: michaels
Too bad you don't drive a 4 cyl. import or you would see massive HP gains......

Even with no turbo? You'd still get improved mileage/speed? I have a Mazda 626 LX-V6. Its a 2.5l V6, DOHC 24v.

Turbo, S/C, CAI, Nitrous Oxide, etc... all do the same basic thing (using different methods of course). They all add more oxygen to your car's combustion chamber in some manner. Turbos and S/Cs do this by slightly compressing air to make it more dense (IE: more O2 molecules in the same given volume). A CAI strives to do the same thing but without mechanical compression. Warm air is less dense than cold air, so if you can get cold air from the outside atmosphere (as opposed to the heated air in your engine bay) it should theoretically increase power. The power increase definitely varies from car to car, and has a lot to do with how good the origional design was. But yes, you can see noticeable HP gains if you go from feeding an engine air at say 40C vs 25C from the outside. By noticeable, I probably will be able to notice the difference when you floor it (especially if you're testing it out on a cold day). However, it's not a turbocharger... so don't get your hopes that far up.

This post right here demostrates why one should NEVER, NEVER, NEVER-EVER-EVER-EVER get car advice from ATOT.

Care to point out where I'm wrong?

He's not wrong. But I will expand on this a bit... The first thing to remember is it won't matter how much more air you can suck in... if you don't have somewhere for it to go (nice exhaust system) then it won't matter. While you'll see gains, you won't see all the gains until all that air has somewhere to go.

Most CAIs will provide a larger filter surface area. So instead of a typical flat panel filter made from paper you will have a conical foam or oiled cloth filter media. Much improved over stock.

The trouble comes with some CAIs is that sometimes they aren't cold. If you just get a short ram you're going to draw in under hood air which is usually going to be MUCH warmer than air from outside the car. Warm air is bad. You want nice cold dense air. Long ram CAIs have hydrolock problems. Ideally you want a CAI from Volant, Injen or Iceman that either provides a good airbox replacement or works with your airbox and gives you a better filter media.

Also, don't forget to remove your airbox silencer. Your car will sound more throaty and you will remove a restriction.

And to the guy with the V8.... any gains on smaller motors will only be magnified on larger motors... so of course it applies to a V8.

 

[JasonCoder]

Originally posted by: Wuzup101

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Wuzup101
Care to point out where I'm wrong?

I shouldn't have to in all honesty. It's glaringly apparent.

No go ahead though, I'd like to hear it. While I didn't preach about how forced induciton systems work, the differences between a belt driven S/C and a turbo feeding off the exhaust (to produce the same BASIC) effect, etc... I'd like to have more than a childish "you're wrong." Hey, I'm here to learn too. All of the systems above in some manner increase power by increasing the amonut of O2 that can be fed into the combustion chamber. I wasn't trying to write a thesis on the subject, just say that that's the same basic idea. With more O2 you can burn more fuel which leads to more power.

Let's not forget that FI is going to cost several thousand while the CAI that is the subject of this thread is gonna run $100-$300.

 

[Evadman]

Unless I am missing something 'glaringly obvious' Wuzup101's explanation was decent, and more than accrate enough for ATOT. The air that is let into the engine will be cooler, thus more dense. That allows more fuel to be added, thus more power. Most ECU driven engines will understand that the air is denser and add more fuel; there is generally a sensor that will measure inlet air temp and adjust for it. Even my old ass '86 (I think) S-15 jimmy with a 2.8 measured air temp. There was a hack where you soldered a resister in place of the temp sensor and you would end up with a good 10% more HP. Well, at least that was what was reported, I never bothered. I just went with a 350.

In addition, a cold air intake is generally less restrictive than a OEM inlet, so more air period can get in. Most OEM intakes will still pull a vacuum at WOT. Every inch of vacuum is that much more air that the engine wants to suck in, but can't because of restrictions.

However, will the powergain be noticeable? On a dyno perhaps. Seat of the pants? Doubt it.

 

[JasonCoder]

Originally posted by: Evadman

Unless I am missing something 'glaringly obvious' Wuzup101's explanation was decent, and more than accrate enough for ATOT. The air that is let into the engine will be cooler, thus more dense. That allows more fuel to be added, thus more power. Most ECU driven engines will understand that the air is denser and add more fuel; there is generally a sensor that will measure inlet air temp and adjust for it. Even my old ass '86 (I think) S-15 jimmy with a 2.8 measured air temp. There was a hack where you soldered a resister in place of the temp sensor and you would end up with a good 10% more HP. Well, at least that was what was reported, I never bothered. I just went with a 350.

In addition, a cold air intake is generally less restrictive than a OEM inlet, so more air period can get in. Most OEM intakes will still pull a vacuum at WOT. Every inch of vacuum is that much more air that the engine wants to suck in, but can't because of restrictions.

However, will the powergain be noticeable? On a dyno perhaps. Seat of the pants? Doubt it.

I butt dynoed mine at a 5hp gain

Does that count?

 

[Evadman]

Originally posted by: JasonCoder
I butt dynoed mine at a 5hp gain
Does that count?

Your ass has a higher resolution than mine.

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: Wuzup101

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Wuzup101
Care to point out where I'm wrong?

I shouldn't have to in all honesty. It's glaringly apparent.

No go ahead though, I'd like to hear it. While I didn't preach about how forced induciton systems work, the differences between a belt driven S/C and a turbo feeding off the exhaust (to produce the same BASIC) effect, etc... I'd like to have more than a childish "you're wrong." Hey, I'm here to learn too. All of the systems above in some manner increase power by increasing the amonut of O2 that can be fed into the combustion chamber. I wasn't trying to write a thesis on the subject, just say that that's the same basic idea. With more O2 you can burn more fuel which leads to more power.

I am not sure which point Spidey is unhappy with, but Super-Chargers and Turbos increase apparent compression ratio and that is why they generate more power. O2 concentration stays the same.

 

[Wuzup101]

Originally posted by: JasonCoder

Originally posted by: Wuzup101

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Wuzup101
Care to point out where I'm wrong?

I shouldn't have to in all honesty. It's glaringly apparent.

No go ahead though, I'd like to hear it. While I didn't preach about how forced induciton systems work, the differences between a belt driven S/C and a turbo feeding off the exhaust (to produce the same BASIC) effect, etc... I'd like to have more than a childish "you're wrong." Hey, I'm here to learn too. All of the systems above in some manner increase power by increasing the amonut of O2 that can be fed into the combustion chamber. I wasn't trying to write a thesis on the subject, just say that that's the same basic idea. With more O2 you can burn more fuel which leads to more power.

Let's not forget that FI is going to cost several thousand while the CAI that is the subject of this thread is gonna run $100-$300.

Definitely, I wasn't trying to say that they were in the same ballpark (as we all know they aren't). Just that they strive to perform a similar function (by different methods). Adding a forced induction system isn't a joke, even a bolt on system designed for the specific car. CAI is a freggin tube, that's all it is. The real question here is, why isn't the OP putting a snorkel (sp?) on that bad boy hehe...

 

[flxnimprtmscl]

Originally posted by: UNCjigga

Originally posted by: intogamer
Its just for epenis. Get a turbo or something

Uhh, NO--he's driving a 4x4 V8! Dude, get a supercharger and call it a day.

Dude, you an idiot. Why by a supercharger when you could just get nawzzz Nah, I say get a centrifugal supercharger. Turbo on a stick ftw! Actually those things suck but I just find the whole concept funny.

 

[JasonCoder]

Originally posted by: Evadman

Originally posted by: JasonCoder
I butt dynoed mine at a 5hp gain
Does that count?

Your ass has a higher resolution than mine.

:laugh:

Guess it comes from wishful thinking and not wanting to pay for a real dyno session.

 

[xXped0thugXx]

Wuzup's description was fine IMHO. If you need some expansion on S/C vs T/C than let me put it in lamens terms. T/C is like a hairdryer constantly blowing cool air into the engine. S/C is like oh i dont even know but it recycles the exhaust air and blows that into the engine. Like a constant blower, as sometimes they are referred as. But seeing as this post was just about a CAI, than all this is irrelevant. Either way post stands as earlier you will feel minimal HP gains , no gas mileage difference. If you opened up the exhaust with a V8's back pressure you and a CAI you will notice a good difference.

 

[DainBramaged]

I had one on my '93 Nissan Maxima. It was supposed to add 3-4 hp. I dunno because I wasn't the guy who installed it.

 

[Stumps]

Originally posted by: xXped0thugXx
Wuzup's description was fine IMHO. If you need some expansion on S/C vs T/C than let me put it in lamens terms. T/C is like a hairdryer constantly blowing cool air into the engine. S/C is like oh i dont even know but it recycles the exhaust air and blows that into the engine. Like a constant blower, as sometimes they are referred as. But seeing as this post was just about a CAI, than all this is irrelevant. Either way post stands as earlier you will feel minimal HP gains , no gas mileage difference. If you opened up the exhaust with a V8's back pressure you and a CAI you will notice a good difference.

BAH HAHAHAHAHAHA that is the biggest load of crap I have ever read.



A TurboCharger (correct term is TurboSupercharger) uses exhaust gases to spin the impeller on the turbine which then compresses the airflow in to the engine.

A Supercharger uses mechanical means (usually a pulley system) to spin the impeller on the Turbine.

other than these differences a Turbo and Supercharger work in the same way, although a supercharge ahs many different impeller/rotor types to compress the air.

A Cold Air Intake is nothing more than an inlet for the airbox to provide a cleaner source of air for the engine, most horsepower gains are purely through the cold air charge that enter the engine rather than the little if any compression of the air, A RamCharger is an example of a Cold Air Intake.

Nitrous Oxide (N2O) provides a power increase by providing the engine with a massive short term increase in Oxygen, along with the cooling effects of Nitrogen which cools the air/fuel charge entering the engine.

 

[Evadman]

Originally posted by: Stumps
Nitrous Oxide (N2O) provides a power increase by providing the engine with a massive short term increase in Oxygen, along with the cooling effects of Nitrogen which cools the air/fuel charge entering the engine.

Nitrogen doesn't cool the intake charge, the phase change from a liquid to a gas that the N2O undergoes is what does it. Unless you are talking emissions, nitrogen (or other inert gasses) are just there it be annoying; forming polutants at very high tempeatures (NOx compounds) EGR systems (which is similar to using pure nitrogen in that EGR gasses are basicly inert) will assist with emissions reductions, but will not add power.

 

[Wuzup101]

Originally posted by: Evadman

Originally posted by: Stumps
Nitrous Oxide (N2O) provides a power increase by providing the engine with a massive short term increase in Oxygen, along with the cooling effects of Nitrogen which cools the air/fuel charge entering the engine.

Nitrogen doesn't cool the intake charge, the phase change from a liquid to a gas that the N2O undergoes is what does it. Unless you are talking emissions, nitrogen (or other inert gasses) are just there it be annoying; forming polutants at very high tempeatures (NOx compounds) EGR systems (which is similar to using pure nitrogen in that EGR gasses are basicly inert) will assist with emissions reductions, but will not add power.

Yeah, that's where the cooling effect comes from (not from the nitrogen itself). It's the rapid liquid to gas phase change that does it. Either way, a synergistic effect (and yes I know I can't spell tonight).

 

[Clocker]

Well I would be happy with a 10 horses and a 1 or 2 miles better gas mileage on FWY. It still seems unclear whether this goal is realistic from these post.

 

[Evadman]

Originally posted by: Clocker
Well I would be happy with a 10 horses and a 1 or 2 miles better gas mileage on FWY. It still seems unclear whether this goal is realistic from these post.

10 HP, maybe <5 more like it. 1-2 MPG, nope. Maybe 1 MPG; if you are lucky. Your grand's induction isn't that bad, though it does have a pretty convoluted intake.

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: Clocker
Well I would be happy with a 10 horses and a 1 or 2 miles better gas mileage on FWY. It still seems unclear whether this goal is realistic from these post.

just try it if you're interested. if you have a favorite jeep forum, you can keep an eye out for a used one for cheep. it's almost always just a tube so it doesn't wear out. worst case if you don't like it just recycle it back for sale.

 

[Stumps]

Originally posted by: Clocker
Well I would be happy with a 10 horses and a 1 or 2 miles better gas mileage on FWY. It still seems unclear whether this goal is realistic from these post.

maybe be possible, but don't expect any miracles....anybody who tells you that you will get big power gains from a small under bonnet type CAI's is talking out of their ass.

Even large Hornet style Fiberglass bonnet scoops and Shaker/Bug catcher(Mr Gasket)types don't provide whooping amounts of power, maybe 25kw's if properly setup.

 

[Wuzup101]

Originally posted by: Iron Woode

Originally posted by: Wuzup101

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Wuzup101
Care to point out where I'm wrong?

I shouldn't have to in all honesty. It's glaringly apparent.

No go ahead though, I'd like to hear it. While I didn't preach about how forced induciton systems work, the differences between a belt driven S/C and a turbo feeding off the exhaust (to produce the same BASIC) effect, etc... I'd like to have more than a childish "you're wrong." Hey, I'm here to learn too. All of the systems above in some manner increase power by increasing the amonut of O2 that can be fed into the combustion chamber. I wasn't trying to write a thesis on the subject, just say that that's the same basic idea. With more O2 you can burn more fuel which leads to more power.

I am not sure which point Spidey is unhappy with, but Super-Chargers and Turbos increase apparent compression ratio and that is why they generate more power. O2 concentration stays the same.

Yes and no. Yes, they do increase the apparent compression ratio (and yes this does also inrease power). However, the O2 concentration doesn't stay the same. The compression (of the air) itself increases the O2 concentration (the amout per unit volume). Hehe, I wasn't trying to say that a CAI and a turbo or S/C were the same thing by any means in my origional post (I thought I pointed that out), just that similar thinking was involved.

 

[xXped0thugXx]

Originally posted by: Stumps

Originally posted by: xXped0thugXx
Wuzup's description was fine IMHO. If you need some expansion on S/C vs T/C than let me put it in lamens terms. T/C is like a hairdryer constantly blowing cool air into the engine. S/C is like oh i dont even know but it recycles the exhaust air and blows that into the engine. Like a constant blower, as sometimes they are referred as. But seeing as this post was just about a CAI, than all this is irrelevant. Either way post stands as earlier you will feel minimal HP gains , no gas mileage difference. If you opened up the exhaust with a V8's back pressure you and a CAI you will notice a good difference.

BAH HAHAHAHAHAHA that is the biggest load of crap I have ever read.



A TurboCharger (correct term is TurboSupercharger) uses exhaust gases to spin the impeller on the turbine which then compresses the airflow in to the engine.

A Supercharger uses mechanical means (usually a pulley system) to spin the impeller on the Turbine.

other than these differences a Turbo and Supercharger work in the same way, although a supercharge ahs many different impeller/rotor types to compress the air.

A Cold Air Intake is nothing more than an inlet for the airbox to provide a cleaner source of air for the engine, most horsepower gains are purely through the cold air charge that enter the engine rather than the little if any compression of the air, A RamCharger is an example of a Cold Air Intake.

Nitrous Oxide (N2O) provides a power increase by providing the engine with a massive short term increase in Oxygen, along with the cooling effects of Nitrogen which cools the air/fuel charge entering the engine.

Are you insane, a S/C isnt considered forced air induction like a T/C . A S/C moves air simply from the intake port to the discharge port. It really has no internal compression ration. The compression is done in the intake manifold. Thr reasoin that superchargers run hotter is because they tend to take some compressed air from the intake back to the supercharger which gets trapped in the rotating lobes, which are already exposed to the hotter air of the intake manifold. This in turn creates low to mid range power while a T/C creates mid to high range power, taking into account the spinning of the ball bearings. Bigger the ball bearings the longer the spin up, but once it gets going the faster it will be.

 

[Wuzup101]

Originally posted by: xXped0thugXx

Originally posted by: Stumps

Originally posted by: xXped0thugXx
Wuzup's description was fine IMHO. If you need some expansion on S/C vs T/C than let me put it in lamens terms. T/C is like a hairdryer constantly blowing cool air into the engine. S/C is like oh i dont even know but it recycles the exhaust air and blows that into the engine. Like a constant blower, as sometimes they are referred as. But seeing as this post was just about a CAI, than all this is irrelevant. Either way post stands as earlier you will feel minimal HP gains , no gas mileage difference. If you opened up the exhaust with a V8's back pressure you and a CAI you will notice a good difference.

BAH HAHAHAHAHAHA that is the biggest load of crap I have ever read.



A TurboCharger (correct term is TurboSupercharger) uses exhaust gases to spin the impeller on the turbine which then compresses the airflow in to the engine.

A Supercharger uses mechanical means (usually a pulley system) to spin the impeller on the Turbine.

other than these differences a Turbo and Supercharger work in the same way, although a supercharge ahs many different impeller/rotor types to compress the air.

A Cold Air Intake is nothing more than an inlet for the airbox to provide a cleaner source of air for the engine, most horsepower gains are purely through the cold air charge that enter the engine rather than the little if any compression of the air, A RamCharger is an example of a Cold Air Intake.

Nitrous Oxide (N2O) provides a power increase by providing the engine with a massive short term increase in Oxygen, along with the cooling effects of Nitrogen which cools the air/fuel charge entering the engine.

Are you insane, a S/C isnt considered forced air induction like a T/C . A S/C moves air simply from the intake port to the discharge port. It really has no internal compression ration. The compression is done in the intake manifold. Thr reasoin that superchargers run hotter is because they tend to take some compressed air from the intake back to the supercharger which gets trapped in the rotating lobes, which are already exposed to the hotter air of the intake manifold. This in turn creates low to mid range power while a T/C creates mid to high range power, taking into account the spinning of the ball bearings. Bigger the ball bearings the longer the spin up, but once it gets going the faster it will be.

They are both forced induction. The main difference is where they draw their power from. A turbo's compressor is powered by the exhaust stream running through a turbine which is connected to the compressor. A supercharger gets it's power via a belt attached to the engine itself... that is what power's a S/C's compressor... they both compress air...

 

[xXped0thugXx]

Originally posted by: Wuzup101

Originally posted by: xXped0thugXx

Originally posted by: Stumps

Originally posted by: xXped0thugXx
Wuzup's description was fine IMHO. If you need some expansion on S/C vs T/C than let me put it in lamens terms. T/C is like a hairdryer constantly blowing cool air into the engine. S/C is like oh i dont even know but it recycles the exhaust air and blows that into the engine. Like a constant blower, as sometimes they are referred as. But seeing as this post was just about a CAI, than all this is irrelevant. Either way post stands as earlier you will feel minimal HP gains , no gas mileage difference. If you opened up the exhaust with a V8's back pressure you and a CAI you will notice a good difference.

BAH HAHAHAHAHAHA that is the biggest load of crap I have ever read.



A TurboCharger (correct term is TurboSupercharger) uses exhaust gases to spin the impeller on the turbine which then compresses the airflow in to the engine.

A Supercharger uses mechanical means (usually a pulley system) to spin the impeller on the Turbine.

other than these differences a Turbo and Supercharger work in the same way, although a supercharge ahs many different impeller/rotor types to compress the air.

A Cold Air Intake is nothing more than an inlet for the airbox to provide a cleaner source of air for the engine, most horsepower gains are purely through the cold air charge that enter the engine rather than the little if any compression of the air, A RamCharger is an example of a Cold Air Intake.

Nitrous Oxide (N2O) provides a power increase by providing the engine with a massive short term increase in Oxygen, along with the cooling effects of Nitrogen which cools the air/fuel charge entering the engine.

Are you insane, a S/C isnt considered forced air induction like a T/C . A S/C moves air simply from the intake port to the discharge port. It really has no internal compression ration. The compression is done in the intake manifold. Thr reasoin that superchargers run hotter is because they tend to take some compressed air from the intake back to the supercharger which gets trapped in the rotating lobes, which are already exposed to the hotter air of the intake manifold. This in turn creates low to mid range power while a T/C creates mid to high range power, taking into account the spinning of the ball bearings. Bigger the ball bearings the longer the spin up, but once it gets going the faster it will be.

They are both forced induction. The main difference is where they draw their power from. A turbo's compressor is powered by the exhaust stream running through a turbine which is connected to the compressor. A supercharger gets it's power via a belt attached to the engine itself... that is what power's a S/C's compressor... they both compress air...

yea youre right, sorry reading blurry here. I musta mistook T/C for S/C , i knew one used exhaust stream , I forgot it was the T/C. But everything I explained about the S/C in my last post was correct.

 

[Journer]

wow there are a lot of dumbasses on here...

a CAI will NOT improve horsepower and the gas mileage gains would be extremely minimal (like... .3+ mpg)...
unless you have a car that can utilize a lot of air (turbo or supercharger) there is NO point...you will NOT notice a power increase..it will all be in your head...

however...a K&N will help, but only because you wont have to change it so often...yes it does offer superior flow, but unless you have a car that can utilize it, it doesnt help.

dont waste your $$...if you want mileage gains..tune your tranny, cpu, or rear/front end...if you want more power go with a supercharger or turbo setup, although in your case a supercharge will be much easier. there can be mileage gains from forced induction but its usually the opposite do to richer tuning and pedal to the metal