Has anyone installed a fireplace insert or blower?

[Joemonkey]

We have a wood fireplace and I just found out that there are inserts and blowers you can buy that help blow the heat generated into the room. I've seen some inserts that cost over a thousand dollars, but then I found this thing

http://www.tjernlund.com/retail/fireplace-blower.htm?gclid=CIzGr4-syaYCFRRg2godIg_6Gg

for $50 and wondered it if would be worth getting.

has anyone ever installed an insert or blower into their fireplace? If so can you recommend one?

 

[highland145]

That's just the fan. I have an insert that I got at a yard sale for around the same price, $50, iirc. Been using it for several years. Wife loves it. Keep in mind that I get my wood for next to nothing from bro in law.

I'd check re-sale stores/for sale/trades etc. You should be able to get one for a decent price.


Edit:Some will tell you that you need to connect the top of the insert to the damper via metal tubing for the smoke to get out. I didn't and mine draws great. There are 3 panels that surround the insert like this.

 

[Joemonkey]

wish I could find one like that for $50! sheesh

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...atalogId=10053

$1259!!!

 

[lxskllr]

My father got a cast iron insert years ago. It was fairly expensive(don't remember how much), but it changed the heat vacuum into a heater. You lose some of the ambiance of an open fire, but it's orders of magnitude more efficient. The only general suggestions I'd give, are get iron, and not steel, and get one with a converter(might be the only way they come now).

 

[highland145]

wish I could find one like that for $50! sheesh

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...atalogId=10053

$1259!!!

Just showing the panels I described. Mine is fairly plain and had some rust where it had been outside. Sandblasted it and painted with stove black. Looked like new.

 

[highland145]

My father got a cast iron insert years ago. It was fairly expensive(don't remember how much), but it changed the heat vacuum into a heater. You lose some of the ambiance of an open fire, but it's orders of magnitude more efficient. The only general suggestions I'd give, are get iron, and not steel, and get one with a converter(might be the only way they come now).

What's that?

 

[Joemonkey]

Craigslist has some old ones, apparently they're also called buck stoves, still $300ish

 

[lxskllr]

What's that?

Catalytic converter, just like a car. It's an afterburner that cleans the smoke, but in doing so, also keeps more of the heat in the house, rather than letting it go up the chimney.

 

[highland145]

Craigslist has some old ones, apparently they're also called buck stoves, still $300ish

Power bill for December was $174, $195 12/09. Wife has a fire if it's below 40. So I don't know how much it's helping on the bill but it will run you out of the room if you stoke it up.

Are you going to have to pay for your wood?

Catalytic converter, just like a car. It's an afterburner that cleans the smoke, but in doing so, also keeps more of the heat in the house, rather than letting it go up the chimney.

That cool Does it work off another heat source like natural gas or is the smoke piped through a separate chamber heated by the fire?

 

[lxskllr]

That cool Does it work off another heat source like natural gas or is the smoke piped through a separate chamber heated by the fire?

On mine, there's a flap that works like a flue damper. In one direction, it bypasses the converter, and works like an old stove. In the other direction, it goes through a chamber with a coated ceramic waffle thing, and then up the chimney. I assume the waffle thing has platinum like in cars, but I don't know.

 

[highland145]

On mine, there's a flap that works like a flue damper. In one direction, it bypasses the converter, and works like an old stove. In the other direction, it goes through a chamber with a coated ceramic waffle thing, and then up the chimney. I assume the waffle thing has platinum like in cars, but I don't know.

Thanks. I misunderstood. Thought it was re burning the exit gasses because they are flammable, iirc.

 

[lxskllr]

Thanks. I misunderstood. Thought it was re burning the exit gasses because they are flammable, iirc.

You didn't misunderstand(I don't think). I guess I should have been more detailed. The waffle thing sits over the fire(has a shield protecting it(asbestos?), and will glow red once it's been going for awhile. That reburns the smoke, and stray combustibles to purify it a bit before being released to the atmosphere. The thermometer broke long ago, but going from memory, it would get to ~1,000F right over the converter.

 

[highland145]

You didn't misunderstand(I don't think). I guess I should have been more detailed. The waffle thing sits over the fire(has a shield protecting it(asbestos?), and will glow red once it's been going for awhile. That reburns the smoke, and stray combustibles to purify it a bit before being released to the atmosphere. The thermometer broke long ago, but going from memory, it would get to ~1,000F right over the converter.

Thanks.

 

[Joemonkey]

Power bill for December was $174, $195 12/09. Wife has a fire if it's below 40. So I don't know how much it's helping on the bill but it will run you out of the room if you stoke it up.

Are you going to have to pay for your wood?

We have a ton of wood saved up from neighbors and friends and family and their neighbors cutting down trees and just giving us the wood, so I'm not too worried about the cost of the wood itself.

Our December gas bill was $150 more than our November, and when we called the utility to ask why the hell it went up so much when the temps didn't even really change much they said our running the fireplace may have actually caused the bill to go up, that our furnace was using more gas because the fireplace was drawing the warm air the furnace was producing out our chimney...

 

[lxskllr]

We have a ton of wood saved up from neighbors and friends and family and their neighbors cutting down trees and just giving us the wood, so I'm not too worried about the cost of the wood itself.

Our December gas bill was $150 more than our November, and when we called the utility to ask why the hell it went up so much when the temps didn't even really change much they said our running the fireplace may have actually caused the bill to go up, that our furnace was using more gas because the fireplace was drawing the warm air the furnace was producing out our chimney...

Yup. I don't know any official numbers, but I could believe that. For aesthetics, fireplaces are unbeatable, but they're a really crappy way to heat a house. They /can/ be good in some cases, but they aren't typically used in American houses. I can't remember exactly what they're called(masonry fireplaces?), but they're basically ginormous masonry heatsinks, that are fairly closed off. I don't think you get the hot blast of heat like an open fireplace, but it'll radiate heat for a long time, and not suck it all out the chimney.

Edit:
It's a masonry stove I was thinking of...

http://energybible.com/bio_energy/masonry_stoves.html

 

[iGas]

Converter doesn't work for gas, because NG or LPG burn extremely clean (stoichiometric burn is 100%, but in real world 98~99%).

Updraft fireplace is 10% efficient, insert raise the bar up to 30~35% efficiency, preheat combustion/converter add 10~15%, convection outlet 5~10%, outer casing insulation 5~10%, extra mass such as soap stone 5~15%, direct vent add 10~25%, ceramic glass 15~25%, blower 5~10%, and secondary heat exchanger can dramatically increase the efficiency pending design and size.

At best a gas fireplace insert would be around 70~75% max with all options. And, wood would be much less at (35~45%), wood pellet are between logs and NG/LPG efficiency.

PS. The manufacture efficiency ratting is base upon ideal testing environment with test methods that produce favorable result to their design. Best is to get the insert/stove that size correctly for the room/building with variable gas burner/s.

A ceiling fan would greatly increase the efficiency of the fireplace/insert/stove because it move the air around and prevent heat stratification. Open all doors to all rooms in the house also increase efficiency.

 

[iGas]

Yup. I don't know any official numbers, but I could believe that. For aesthetics, fireplaces are unbeatable, but they're a really crappy way to heat a house. They /can/ be good in some cases, but they aren't typically used in American houses. I can't remember exactly what they're called(masonry fireplaces?), but they're basically ginormous masonry heatsinks, that are fairly closed off. I don't think you get the hot blast of heat like an open fireplace, but it'll radiate heat for a long time, and not suck it all out the chimney.

Edit:
It's a masonry stove I was thinking of...

http://energybible.com/bio_energy/masonry_stoves.html

That is an updraft design with baffles to increase efficiency, however flue gas must have high enough temperature to over come pressure and length of stack, hence it is not as efficient as direct vent or double wall b-vent.

I prefer down draft with baffles design because it collect more ash and easier to clean out than updraft baffles. And, down draft is slightly more efficient than updraft because the heart temperature is much more even than that of updraft. Another advantage of down draft is that reburner/converter is easier to design than updraft. One problem with down draft is that the air intake is a bit more difficult to control than updraft.

PS. Fire place efficiency is 10%, increase mass and baffles with reburner/converters might bring it up to 30~35% efficiency (could be a bit higher efficiency if much larger mass/heat exchanger is employed, however flue gas temperature must be high enough to over come heavier cold stack air).

 

[highland145]

iGas, by direct vent do you mean a fresh air intake? Been thinking about running one to the intakes on the front of the insert so that air isn't being pulled from the rest of the house for combustion. Should make a difference, I would think. Thoughts?

 

[Number1]

Craigslist has some old ones, apparently they're also called buck stoves, still $300ish

If you intend to make any major modification to your fireplace make sure you consult with your insurance company first especially if you decide to install second hand stuff.

 

[mrrman]

I put a blower into my gas fireplace...I think it was close to $200 a while back...its was a bit of a pain but it worked

 

[SearchMaster]

We have one that came with the house. Our fireplace (and thus the insert) is small to begin with, and the bad thing is that the doors on ours are metal and not glass so you completely lose the feel of a fire. In addition, we have to use a big firestarter log because it takes a while for the fire to get going, and if we leave the doors open to get more oxygen in while it's getting started, it gets very smoky because the outlet opening is quite small.

However, once it gets going it pumps a TON of heat into the room.

 

[iGas]

iGas, by direct vent do you mean a fresh air intake? Been thinking about running one to the intakes on the front of the insert so that air isn't being pulled from the rest of the house for combustion. Should make a difference, I would think. Thoughts?

Direct vent is a vent that come out directly from the back or just above the insert and directly vented outside through the wall with intake & exhaust incorporate into 1 dual walls pipe (no chimney or stack).

There is no advantage over having combustion air from an outside vent opening or simply from your room/house. Unless the BTU rating/burn rate is higher than the recovery air that the room volume can supply, hence you will get unclean burn and fill the room with carbon mononxide/dioxide. Best practice is to leave all inside doors open so that combustion air can travel to the insert and increase efficiency.

 

[highland145]

Direct vent is a vent that come out directly from the back or just above the insert and directly vented outside through the wall with intake & exhaust incorporate into 1 dual walls pipe (no chimney or stack).

There is no advantage over having combustion air from an outside vent opening or simply from your room/house. Unless the BTU rating/burn rate is higher than the recovery air that the room volume can supply, hence you will get unclean burn and fill the room with carbon mononxide/dioxide. Best practice is to leave all inside doors open so that combustion air can travel to the insert and increase efficiency.

Thanks.

 

[Stifko]

wish I could find one like that for $50! sheesh

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...atalogId=10053

$1259!!!

now it is 1399, and that is cheap. Lopi inserts are supposed to be really well made and efficient. The cheapest Lopi I have found is around 2000.

 

[marvdmartian]

Some will tell you that you need to connect the top of the insert to the damper via metal tubing for the smoke to get out. I didn't and mine draws great.

Generally, you don't have to connect to the flue to draw well, but you will notice (when you go to clean it, or have it cleaned) that you're going to have a LOT of cleaning/brushing to do, on the back side of the insert and the inside of the smoke chamber and possibly the firebox.

Also, be aware that if you're burning regularly with an insert, it's a good idea to clean yearly (or more often, depending on how much wood you're going through.....generally, at least every 2 cords). This is because the inserts tend to cool the smoke more before sending it up the flue (where did you think the extra heat was coming from?), which condenses all the gasses more quickly as the smoke is exiting, and heading up the flue. That means more creosote in your smoke chamber, fire box and flue......and that's the shit that burns when someone has a chimney fire.