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Hardwick is added to the list.

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Younigue said:
Are you asking if a victim can thank their abuser and be otherwise mentally screwed up after being abused? Yes.

I still don't think that's the case with Hardwick.
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I wasn't asking your question, because I already believe it.

As for Hardwick, we'll see.
 
Younigue said:
I agree and just so you know I'm not so in to defending him that I'd never believe he isn't capable of being an abuser.
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I agree. I do not know this guy, and I don't know what he acts like. I can imagine situations where she could be a liar, and or he could be a liar, and or they could both be abusers. I don't see anything other than a claim from her at this point so I think it would be too soon to accept that he is a dirt bag that raped her.
 
realibrad said:
I agree. I do not know this guy, and I don't know what he acts like. I can imagine situations where she could be a liar, and or he could be a liar, and or they could both be abusers. I don't see anything other than a claim from her at this point so I think it would be too soon to accept that he is a dirt bag that raped her.
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I think he's a dirtbag regardless of whether he raped her. Her depiction of their relationship is damning to at least him and possibly both of them.

Also, there's more than her accusations. There's also his non-apology.
 
jackstar7 said:
I think he's a dirtbag regardless of whether he raped her. Her depiction of their relationship is damning to at least him and possibly both of them.

Also, there's more than her accusations. There's also his non-apology.
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Ok, not to get in to it again but if she was as bad as him within the relationship they both owe each other an apology. Preferably privately.
 
jackstar7 said:
I think he's a dirtbag regardless of whether he raped her. Her depiction of their relationship is damning to at least him and possibly both of them.

Also, there's more than her accusations. There's also his non-apology.
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How do you know what she described is accurate? How do you she was not worse than he was to her? How do you know anything beyond what she described?

You want an apology for something that may be 100% accurate, 50% accurate, 10% accurate.
 
jackstar7 said:
I think he's a dirtbag regardless of whether he raped her. Her depiction of their relationship is damning to at least him and possibly both of them.

Also, there's more than her accusations. There's also his non-apology.
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I was thinking more on this. I come from parents that got divorced and were quite angry with each other for years after. I remember situations where my parents had totally different views on situations. It was confusing for a long while because I never could understand as a child how my parents would both get things so wrong. It was a good learning experience because I learned that people are flawed and their ability to filter things was incredible. They were both very hurt by what happened, and carried that pain over for years and that paint acted as a filter.

I think its very reasonable to think that is happening here. Both appear to be quite hurt. Both seem to understand that both sides did something wrong. Both probably don't realize some of the things they did. But, her position seems to be far more extreme than his. Knowing that people can get things wrong, having seen it first hand, I hold skepticism. She may feel that she is being 100% honest, and still be very wrong. Her feelings might be right, but, that does not mean that he did all or none of what he has been accused of.

I'm also not saying that you take what he says as fact. That would be as silly as taking what she said as fact. I'm saying that both should be treated as imperfect people and that the truth probably is not clear.
 
I'm not sure if either of you are trying to convince me of something, but I'm not sure why you would.

I'll just wish you both a good day.
 
jackstar7 said:
I'm not sure if either of you are trying to convince me of something, but I'm not sure why you would.

I'll just wish you both a good day.
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No no, I'm just trying to add to your perspective. If you don't change your mind that's fine by me.
 
jackstar7 said:
You made me think about it some more, and based on the texts he made public, she did try to reconcile things privately a long time ago.
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You know you made me think about my position because I defended your stance. I (for me) felt this was a good exchange. We both know where the other one stands. We both considered the other's perspective. We both agree that extremism isn't the answer but no tolerance is a must even though we come at it from different directions.
 
Younigue said:
You know you made me think about my position because I defended your stance. I (for me) felt this was a good exchange. We both know where the other one stands. We both considered the other's perspective. We both agree that extremism isn't the answer but no tolerance is a must even though we come at it from different directions.
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No tolerance as we do not tolerate abuse?
 
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