[Hardware Unboxed]: It's Over, DLSS is Dead: New Nvidia Sharpening Filter Tested

[Stuka87]

Sustaining 60Hz is the new standard? So the 5700xt is now a 720p card? That where we're going, really?

First off, 60Hz has been the 'standard' for PC gaming for almost 2 decades. And what benchmarks have you been looking at?

5700XT, obviously no RT being used here, in order of 1080/1440/4k (Numbers came from TPU for top two, and Control's own site for that)
BF5: 158, 123, 70
Metro: 104, 82, 37
Control: 73, 47, 23

Control is a very demanding game, nothing runs it very well, even with out RT. However, as we can see, BF5 and Metro both run at 1440 without issue. And the 5700XT sustains over 60fps in both at that resolution. Now sure there may be some games where it drops below, I am not going to dig up every single game out there.

But seriously, stop with the hyperbole.

 

[BenSkywalker]

So you mean average?

Ok, sustain frequently implies minimum. The videos already linked and the Eurogamer article showed the 2080Ti hitting 60 Hz average at 4k. Yes, there were settings tweaked, yes the 2080Ti was doing 4k 60 with DXR on. So it is real world doable today, albeit with compromises.

 

[Hitman928]

So you mean average?

Ok, sustain frequently implies minimum. The videos already linked and the Eurogamer article showed the 2080Ti hitting 60 Hz average at 4k. Yes, there were settings tweaked, yes the 2080Ti was doing 4k 60 with DXR on. So it is real world doable today, albeit with compromises.

The average needs to be above 60 fps. I would say minimum the 3% lows need to be above 60 fps, ideally 1% lows. The 0.1% lows don't mean much in my opinion without detailed frame time analysis. If all you have is an average number, then a healthy 25% above 60 fps will probably get you there but having the actual data for lows is better.

I haven't seen any reviews/articles showing a 2080Ti hitting 4K 60 fps with RTX on but will take a look if you have a link to one.

 

[Stuka87]

So you mean average?

Ok, sustain frequently implies minimum. The videos already linked and the Eurogamer article showed the 2080Ti hitting 60 Hz average at 4k. Yes, there were settings tweaked, yes the 2080Ti was doing 4k 60 with DXR on. So it is real world doable today, albeit with compromises.

I listed averages, but you claimed the 5700XT cannot sustain 60fps minimum at 1080. If it getting 75+ fps average, then the minimums will typically be over 60 if you remove the 99th percentile (which is weird hiccups and such). You saying it is a 720 card was categorically wrong.

Can you post a link of the the eurogamer article? All the other sites I have looked at, show it having minimums (with 99th percentile removed) in the 35-45 range. And averages in the 55-65 area.

 

[psolord]

Do I have to sign in to use this filter? This is the first time I installed the stupid geforce experience.

 

[Ranulf]

Sustaining 60Hz is the new standard? So the 5700xt is now a 720p card? That where we're going, really?

Sigh. Sure, why not as people this gen have been selling the 1660ti as an entry level 1440p card (its a better 1070!) and even the 2060 (non super) as 1440p when they are barely 1080p Ultra 60+fps cards on new and 1 year old games.

 

[Muhammed]

The game will look better with everything maxed and NO RT, than it will with everything dropped down but with RT.

NOPE, that's crap and you know it.

Control with RTX destroys everything out there, playing the game at the dumb 4K resolution isn't even worth it.
Metro with RTX is a must have, and it's leaps and bounds better than playing the game @4K.

In all of these cases upscaling the image gets you close to 4K, so why bother?

 

[coercitiv]

dumb 4K resolution

holy smack this is getting surreal

 

[Elfear]

NOPE, that's crap and you know it.

Control with RTX destroys everything out there, playing the game at the dumb 4K resolution isn't even worth it.
Metro with RTX is a must have, and it's leaps and bounds better than playing the game @4K.

In all of these cases upscaling the image gets you close to 4K, so why bother?

Have you ever played on a 4k monitor per chance? Some older games don't show much of an IQ difference moving up to 4k but MANY games show a substantial increase in fidelity. I remember playing Skyrim after I bought a 4k monitor and being blown away by how gorgeous it was coming from the 1440p monitor I was using before that.

I don't doubt that in some games RTX makes a nice difference to IQ but is it worth the trade-off of running at a lower resolution and with other IQ settings turned down?

 

[Krteq]

Regarding DLSS implementation in Control... it has the a same flaws as usual - artefacts etc.

For example, if shadows appear frayed, the effect with DLSS usually increases significantly. And fence-like objects that are no longer displayed perfectly even without DLSS, then suddenly frayed with the feature or are sometimes no longer displayed. With DLSS, Control is showing even more graphics errors than it already does, which is not very conducive to graphics quality. The bottom line is that if the video card renders in the same resolution once with and once without DLSS, the result is different but not better.
....
Nvidia has integrated DLSS as a remedy. In principle this works quite well in Control and brings a big FPS boost. Sometimes even the blur is reduced, with some objects then appear overshadowed and flicker. However, DLSS is quite allergic to the game's graphics flaws, and they are made worse by AI upscaling. First of all, using ray tracing to make the graphics more realistic, but then to incorporate further errors with DLSS does not work.

ComputerBase.de - Control mit RTX & DLSS im Test: Raytracing, DLSS und das Fazit

 

[coercitiv]

I don't doubt that in some games RTX makes a nice difference to IQ but is it worth the trade-off of running at a lower resolution and with other IQ settings turned down?

This is the point where everything falls apart between the defenders and the naysayers: we hear the big talk about the (imho convincingly) revolutionary jump in image quality, but when it comes down to counting the beans and paying the price in $$$ for more powerful cards or weighing IQ loss compensation into the equation to keep a steady FPS it immediately becomes a confusing mess of "resolution is not important" and "the are other IQ settings than Ultra".

The simple reality is games, just like movies, are subject to artistic direction. They are not meant to be consumed *first* as an accurate reproduction of reality, but rather as a guided experience (through style, focus, interactions, scenario, controls, mechanics, etc), hence accurate lighting and reflections, while definitely desirable, are not in any shape or form *essential*. Surround sound systems, 3D television and to some extent VR headsets have failed for similar reasons (can be reduced to gain vs. cost, whether monetary or simple comfort).

 

[DiogoDX]

Only Nvidia can sell a degrading image quality as a "feature". Glad that some "tech tubers" are reporting this joke for what it is.

 

[linaaslt]

I love 4k, if you can't afford it don't say it's no good. I can't look at anything lower than 4k now. I tried many games, and what a difference. Just put Witcher 3, and then tell me about dumb 4k.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Why not just buy a gpu that has the power to give you the fps you need, for the resolution you use?
Is this filtering/downsampling stuff for people that bought 4k monitors
that cant afford a proper video card?

It seems that your questions have gotten lost in the conversation here. But basically. DLSS was there for people to run RT without taking a major hit in framerates. Now it looks like NV is kicking it to the curb since it's too much work to implement it properly.

 

[joesiv]

It seems that your questions have gotten lost in the conversation here. But basically. DLSS was there for people to run RT without taking a major hit in framerates. Now it looks like NV is kicking it to the curb since it's too much work to implement it properly.

I would also say that different games perform in different ways. Say you hit your 60 target on one game, but the next it can't... People generally play more than one game, I think... usually... maybe...?

 

[DrMrLordX]

I would also say that different games perform in different ways. Say you hit your 60 target on one game, but the next it can't... People generally play more than one game, I think... usually... maybe...?

That was one of the big problems. Never mind that only a few games use RT anyway . . . but even in those that did, it took NV a lot of profiling work to get DLSS functioning properly without being a blurry mess.