[Hardware Unboxed]: It's Over, DLSS is Dead: New Nvidia Sharpening Filter Tested

[Det0x]

In short, Nvidia's own sharpening filter is does a better job then their DLSS implementation cleaning up the image.

 

[NTMBK]

Urgh, video. Is there a text version available somewhere? I just want to look at comparison images, not sit through a 10 minute video.

 

[Dribble]

Competition is great - AMD forces Nvidia to do a higher quality image sharpening implementation. They now outdo AMD (it works in DX11, with all gpus, more games, and better configuration), now AMD has to respond and catch up/over take Nvidia.

 

[Det0x]

Urgh, video. Is there a text version available somewhere? I just want to look at comparison images, not sit through a 10 minute video.

I was also looking for a written version before i posted, but i could not find it.

 

[maddie]

I miss all the adamant DLSS promoters from a while aback. Where are they?


Quit trolling.

AT Moderator ElFenix

 

[nurturedhate]

I miss all the adamant DLSS promoters from a while aback. Where are they?

Adamantly defending Nvidia's implementation/timing/marketing of RT as RTX currently.

 

[BenSkywalker]

You won't find me championing DLSS ever, but it should get better over time because of the nature of what it is. That said, I don't like image scaling, it introduces too many artifacts or softens the image(when down sampling).

Maybe ten generations from now DLSS might be good, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[BFG10K]

So months/years of learning on super computers completely undone by a simple sharpening filter. Assuming there was ever any learning at all. We really have no way to verify what's actually going on in that driver black box that is DLSS.

Nobody should be surprised at this. The warning signs were there right from the start with only very specific combos of resolution / GPU / setting / game allowed. From a simple software engineering standpoint, this is unsustainable.

DLSS has been a scam right from the start, a fraud perpetuated on customers. nVidia's hand was simply forced by AMD's RIS, otherwise the DLSS charade would still be going on. That's why past comments in this forum "without AMD, nVidia will just compete with themselves!" are total nonsense.

I don't even like sharpening filters, never did. Some people use them for upscaling but I prefer to reduce IQ to maintain native. The only reason I even mention them is to show how bad DLSS is.

I miss all the adamant DLSS promoters from a while aback. Where are they?

They're still learning deeply.

But check the other thread - we're still getting DLSS games listed as a "feature", much like PhysX threads back in the day.

 

[happy medium]

Why not just buy a gpu that has the power to give you the fps you need, for the resolution you use?
Is this filtering/downsampling stuff for people that bought 4k monitors
that cant afford a proper video card?

 

[Qwertilot]

It's slightly complex that. AMD did their software one for the consoles.

Then NV developed Turing for AI purposes and wanted to use the tensor cores in gaming. Hence DLSS and why it's use is so restricted - to stop the use of the tensor cores bottle necking things.

Then AMD pushed their software thing from the consoles as a response & then NV back again.

Not quite sure when they mostly get used in practice.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

 

[maddie]

So months/years of learning on super computers completely undone by a simple sharpening filter. Assuming there was ever any learning at all. We really have no way to verify what's actually going on in that driver black box that is DLSS.

Nobody should be surprised at this. The warning signs were there right from the start with only very specific combos of resolution / GPU / setting / game allowed. From a simple software engineering standpoint, this is unsustainable.

DLSS has been a scam right from the start, a fraud perpetuated on customers. nVidia's hand was simply forced by AMD's RIS, otherwise the DLSS charade would still be going on. That's why past comments in this forum "without AMD, nVidia will just compete with themselves!" are total nonsense.

I don't even like sharpening filters, never did. Some people use them for upscaling but I prefer to reduce IQ to maintain native. The only reason I even mention them is to show how bad DLSS is.


They're still learning deeply.

But check the other thread - we're still getting DLSS games listed as a "feature", much like PhysX threads back in the day.

Not only that, but we probably have AMD to thank for this more directly, as Nvidia probably poached the software from the open source code.

 

[maddie]

Why not just buy a gpu that has the power to give you the fps you need, for the resolution you use?
Is this filtering/downsampling stuff for people that bought 4k monitors
that cant afford a proper video card?

I'm going to be getting a large 4K display for serious work, but still want to play games. What exactly is a proper video card for me?

Upscaling, if it looks great, is perfect for what I want.

My, my, how far we've come from those old "GTX960 is the greatest" days.

 

[happy medium]

I'm going to be getting a large 4K display for serious work, but still want to play games. What exactly is a proper video card for me?

Upscaling, if it looks great, is perfect for what I want.

My, my, how far we've come from those old "GTX960 is the greatest" days.

I find it hard to believe you don't know what video card "you" need.
9 years on this forum...….

 

[Stuka87]

Why not just buy a gpu that has the power to give you the fps you need, for the resolution you use?
Is this filtering/downsampling stuff for people that bought 4k monitors
that cant afford a proper video card?

You have been championing Ray Tracing to death. You should be well aware that there is no GPU made that can run RT at 4K, and some of them won't even run at 1440.

As for this sharpening filter, its nearly identical to AMD's Radeon Image Sharpening, but the driver support DX11, AMD's DX11 support is coming in a future update. But both setups are great for consumers. Work in any game, unlike DLSS where it tends to look bad and you need a spreadsheet to find out when it can and cannot be used.

 

[maddie]

I find it hard to believe you don't know what video card "you" need.
9 years on this forum...….

As I've made mistakes in the past assuming the poster meant something different, so I'll expand as I really didn't ask for advice.

1) I'm getting a 4K display for non-recreational use.
2) I'll be playing games sometimes for FUN

According to your advice:
"Why not just buy a gpu that has the power to give you the fps you need, for the resolution you use?
Is this filtering/downsampling stuff for people that bought 4k monitors
that cant afford a proper video card?"

I can get by easily here with a mid-range card that with upscaling, allows me to have the best of both worlds.

Your advice tells me to spend a lot more on a native 4K card because. ???????

 

[Roger Wilco]

Are the tensor cores just going to be dead space now? Or could they be repurposed?

 

[VirtualLarry]

Are the tensor cores just going to be dead space now? Or could they be repurposed?

Would be neat if you could use them for "mining", without using much of the rest of the GPU's power.

 

[DamZe]

The only thing I don't like about it is having to fiddle with freestyle, would have been nice if it came with a universal toggle switch like the Radeon variant.

 

[Qwertilot]

Are the tensor cores just going to be dead space now? Or could they be repurposed?

Well, the tensor cores are likely going nowhere unless/until they decide the AI market is enough to develop fully dedicated cards for, and they'll want to use them if they're there.

They probably could be repurposed in principle - let people use deep learnt AI to control opponents in games or other such rather nice things - but I suspect they'll just keep using DLSS where it makes sense in terms of not bottlenecking the cards elsewhere. If nothing else it'll be the very fastest option available then.

I'd be very cautious about any of these IQ videos. Its very tempting & easy to produce dramatic click bait videos in various directions.

 

[happy medium]

As I've made mistakes in the past assuming the poster meant something different, so I'll expand as I really didn't ask for advice.

1) I'm getting a 4K display for non-recreational use.
2) I'll be playing games sometimes for FUN

According to your advice:
"Why not just buy a gpu that has the power to give you the fps you need, for the resolution you use?
Is this filtering/downsampling stuff for people that bought 4k monitors
that cant afford a proper video card?"

I can get by easily here with a mid-range card that with upscaling, allows me to have the best of both worlds.

Your advice tells me to spend a lot more on a native 4K card because. ???????

Because you can,and why use filtering when you don't need to. Simple as that.

 

[happy medium]

You have been championing Ray Tracing to death. You should be well aware that there is no GPU made that can run RT at 4K, and some of them won't even run at 1440.

As for this sharpening filter, its nearly identical to AMD's Radeon Image Sharpening, but the driver support DX11, AMD's DX11 support is coming in a future update. But both setups are great for consumers. Work in any game, unlike DLSS where it tends to look bad and you need a spreadsheet to find out when it can and cannot be used.

I suggest you watch some youtube videos at 4k 60fps ray Tracing enabled
https://www.google.com/search?q=4k+...=vid&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiO6MnY_KPkAhUKheAKHcVxBk

 

[Blockheadfan]

I find it hard to believe you don't know what video card "you" need.
9 years on this forum...….

How many forum-years do you need to recognise a rhetorical question?

Because you can,and why use filtering when you don't need to. Simple as that.

I'm in the same boat as the person you quoted, 4K pro display mainly used for Resolve, DarkTable and maybe 2% gaming if that.
So because I can (waste money) and why use filtering (when it improves image quality). Sound logic.

 

[Stuka87]

I suggest you watch some youtube videos at 4k 60fps ray Tracing enabled
https://www.google.com/search?q=4k+...=vid&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiO6MnY_KPkAhUKheAKHcVxBk

I am not sure how your response proves me wrong?

2080Ti in BF5 won't sustain 60fps with RTX at 1440, but it does get close. But no where close at 4K
2080Ti in Metro won't sustain 60fps with RTX on at 1440, much less 4K
2080Ti in Control won't sustain 60fps with RTX on at 1440, much less 4K

So if you like running at low frame rates, then yes you can run native 4K. Or if you drop lots of other settings down, then you can. But why drop every other setting just to run ray tracing? The game will look better with everything maxed and NO RT, than it will with everything dropped down but with RT.

 

[maddie]

I am not sure how your response proves me wrong?

2080Ti in BF5 won't sustain 60fps with RTX at 1440, but it does get close. But no where close at 4K
2080Ti in Metro won't sustain 60fps with RTX on at 1440, much less 4K
2080Ti in Control won't sustain 60fps with RTX on at 1440, much less 4K

So if you like running at low frame rates, then yes you can run native 4K. Or if you drop lots of other settings down, then you can. But why drop every other setting just to run ray tracing? The game will look better with everything maxed and NO RT, than it will with everything dropped down but with RT.

But, but, then you don't get to subsidize Nvidia high stock price.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Sustaining 60Hz is the new standard? So the 5700xt is now a 720p card? That where we're going, really?