HardOCP reviews X1800XT

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M0RPH

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
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Originally posted by: Rollo


Nonetheless, 30% louder with an annoying high pitched whine isn't exactly "admirable"?

So now it's "annoying high pitched whine." Funny how you keep exaggerating more and more. Next time you'll be saying "ear-piercing sonic squeal!" Lol.

BTW, saying that someting whines is a subjective thing. I haven't heard any other reviewers talk about a whine, so I'll take it with a grain of salt until I hear one myself. I wonder why they didn't post sound files in their review so we could all hear what the cards sounded like?
 

nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
10,460
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Originally posted by: Alexstarfire
Ok, does the sound actually matter.
Not so much to me, but if its annoying reviewers, and whines like a little hair dryer, I think we can all remember a card with a similar problem? (5800U)

Anyone who can afford to buy one isn't going to use the stock heatsink anyways.
Do you have some proof that all, or even most, X1800XTs buyers are going to void their warranties and go to the work to add Silencers? I doubt this VERY much.

Not to mentin that in the HardOCP article they say that the sound levels are going to vary based on what HSF combinations the card manufacturers put on them.
That remains to be seen. Thus far we've only seen these reference designs.

I hate HardOCP video card reviews, always have and always will, because they don't bench them at the same settings with varying quality.
Well, everyone else does cookie cutter 4X8X reviews so you have plenty of other choices. A lot of people think Hs reviews are the MOST useful because they actually play levels of games and show the performance graph all the way through. It's been shown many times that timedemos can provide a different result than actual gameplay, for a variety of reasons.

Pretty much every other reviewer does it that way.
I do too, because it's easier. Doesn't invalidate his results.

Another things is that playable has a different meanign for everyone. I would hardly have considered a lot of there stuff playable, but that's just me.
That's your opinion, many don't share it. Perhaps you should get a website and make your opinion well known?

I've seen other, better, reviews.
Like I said, your opinion only. What are your credentials to question theirs?

I also don't believe that the HardOCP review takes into accoutn the new Catalyst drivers that make use of the programmable memory controller.


Because of that I believe the X1800XT isn't winning by that much in some reviews, and losing in a select few. Taking both of those things into account makes the X1800XT a far superior card for the moment.
You're wrong about that and should misrepresent this fact to the public if you haven't read the review.
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=ODc1
ATI sent us a beta version of this driver to use for this review, which contains the same OpenGL fix that will be in Catalyst 5.11. The version we are using is the 8.183 ?OpenGL Fix.? Basically, these drivers are Catalyst 5.11 betas.

I have heard some rather interesting news about the new nVidia card, the 512MB 7800GTX.
Really? What is it and what is your source?

Either way I don't think getting either card is going to be worth it. While the new nVidia card may be better than the X1800XT I still don't think it's worth paying like $600+ for it.
Some people either have more money than you, or choose to spend it differently. It's your opinion only it's "not worth it". You'd be surprised what computer gaming is worht to someone like me.

You can get a brand new 7800 GT for half that price, about $300 after rebates and it's definitely more than half the performance of even the new nVidia card should the rumors be true.
1. The best you can buy is never the best bang for buck, so this isn't exactly news.
2. Some people have the budget and/or inclination to want more than a 7800GT can give them.
3. You don't know what performance the 512 will offer.


EDIT: Wow, after posting on Guru3D so much I forgot my post count here is like nill. Though I don't think it's matters much since a lot of people's posts are probably just bumps for selling stuff anyways, like mine.

Care to elaborate? Are you a nVidia or ATI employee?

In any case, I doubt a "lot of people are". Most of us aren't lucky enough to work at our hobby?

 

nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
10,460
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Originally posted by: M0RPH
Originally posted by: Rollo


Nonetheless, 30% louder with an annoying high pitched whine isn't exactly "admirable"?

So now it's "annoying high pitched whine." Funny how you keep exaggerating more and more. Next time you'll be saying "ear-piercing sonic squeal!" Lol.

BTW, saying that someting whines is a subjective thing. I haven't heard any other reviewers talk about a whine, so I'll take it with a grain of salt until I hear one myself. I wonder why they didn't post sound files in their review so we could all hear what the cards sounded like?

MORPH!

For the LAST time- I'm just quoting HardOCP!

However, the second fan speed level was very noticeable; as the GPU?s temperature rose, this second level kicked in and we noticed a constant whine coming from the fan. In fact, it got pretty distracting after a long while of gaming since our test system sits right beside us as we play. We only noticed the third level during when the system was booting up; once Windows loaded, it went away and we never heard this third level engage during gaming. Certainly, if the temperature warranted it, this this level could engage, and if it does, make sure to wear your headphones while gaming because this sound level cannot be ignored.

With the BFGTech GeForce 7800 GTX OC, we noticed only two fan speed levels. The first level was equal to the volume of the ATI Radeon X1800 XT, which is very quiet. The second level only went up 2 dBs, and it was still quieter than the Radeon X1800 XT?s second level -- and without the annoying whine. It is easy to tell from all of this which video card was easier on our ears.

There's NO WAY you can spin this, especially when you haven't even HEARD it! How many people want to spend $600 and break down their case only to hear a little dustbuster wind up?!

(got news for you- I'm one of VERY few!)

 

Matthias99

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2003
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A few quotes from the article's 'Conclusions' page:

The Radeon X1800 XT is a louder video card so this is something to keep in mind if you wish to maintain a quieter running system. However, each manufacturer can implement their own heat sink and fan so the final sound results may vary. We have also determined that heat does not seem to be a big determining factor between the video cards. The Radeon X1800 XT seems to be slightly warmer, but it is nothing major.

It seems like the cooler (at least the one on this particular card) was louder than the one on the 7800GTX. However, AT's X1800XT review didn't seem to find it very loud at all, so maybe it's a little early to decide this one way or the other.

The MSRP for the 512MB Radeon X1800 XT is $549; this is no small amount of change. We have seen retail GeForce 7800 GTX-based video cards online for $100 cheaper than the X1800 XT?s MSRP. As of yesterday, the X1800 XT was selling for approximately $50 over MSRP. If money is no object, the Radeon X1800 XT keeps a steady pace with GeForce 7800 GTX 256MB video card; furthermore, in some cases, it offers a faster gaming experience than NVIDIA?s current top-of-the-line card.

The Radeon X1800 XT does have an interesting new feature ? which is unavailable on the GeForce 7800 GTX ? as it has the ability to do AA with all methods of HDR. Therefore, if this is important for you, the X1800 XT might be the better choice. There also seems to be a lot of performance headroom with the Radeon X1000 series, which we have seen with the recent OpenGL Fix drivers. I sincerely hope that ATI can keep making the X1000 series more efficient through driver updates. Whichever card you chose, you won?t be disappointed as each allows a very high level of game play performance and image quality.

The performance of the Radeon X1800 XT isn't an issue as there is plenty of it. As we saw in the past with ATI's top-of-the-line cards, pricing and availability are the big questions facing ATI's flagship cards.

No great surprises in performance; the X1800XT matched or beat the 460/1300 7800GTX in every test except The Sims 2. Overall, it was better in two tests, worse in one, and equal in the other five. They did mention that there seemed to be a bug with HDR in Serious Sam 2 that prevented it from working properly on the X1800XT.

As for pricing, keep in mind that they are comparing in this review against a factory overclocked 7800GTX; those cards are still near $500. The exact one they're comparing against is $510 on Newegg. A stock (430/1200) GTX would be somewhat slower, and the X1800XT might have edged out more tests against such a card. Certainly the card is no bargain at $600, but it shouldn't stay there long.
 

M0RPH

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,302
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Originally posted by: Rollo
Originally posted by: M0RPH
Originally posted by: Rollo


Nonetheless, 30% louder with an annoying high pitched whine isn't exactly "admirable"?

So now it's "annoying high pitched whine." Funny how you keep exaggerating more and more. Next time you'll be saying "ear-piercing sonic squeal!" Lol.

BTW, saying that someting whines is a subjective thing. I haven't heard any other reviewers talk about a whine, so I'll take it with a grain of salt until I hear one myself. I wonder why they didn't post sound files in their review so we could all hear what the cards sounded like?

MORPH!

For the LAST time- I'm just quoting HardOCP!

However, the second fan speed level was very noticeable; as the GPU?s temperature rose, this second level kicked in and we noticed a constant whine coming from the fan. In fact, it got pretty distracting after a long while of gaming since our test system sits right beside us as we play. We only noticed the third level during when the system was booting up; once Windows loaded, it went away and we never heard this third level engage during gaming. Certainly, if the temperature warranted it, this this level could engage, and if it does, make sure to wear your headphones while gaming because this sound level cannot be ignored.

With the BFGTech GeForce 7800 GTX OC, we noticed only two fan speed levels. The first level was equal to the volume of the ATI Radeon X1800 XT, which is very quiet. The second level only went up 2 dBs, and it was still quieter than the Radeon X1800 XT?s second level -- and without the annoying whine. It is easy to tell from all of this which video card was easier on our ears.

There's NO WAY you can spin this, especially when you haven't even HEARD it! How many people want to spend $600 and break down their case only to hear a little dustbuster wind up?!

(got news for you- I'm one of VERY few!)

I don't see "annoying high pitched whine" in there. Close, but you've exaggerated it a little, haven't you? And that's typical of what you do.
 

nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
10,460
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Originally posted by: M0RPH
I don't see "annoying high pitched whine" in there. Close, but you've exaggerated it a little, haven't you? And that's typical of what you do.

LOL and this is typical of what YOU do. When faced with incontrovertible evidence you are wrong you say "They did not say those exact words in that exact order! You are exaggerating!"

The rest of the world who can read can see:

annoying whine
constant whine
third level cannot be ignored, you'll have to wear headphones if it kicks in
pretty distracting
easy to tell which card was easier on our ears

and draw their own conclusions.

BTW- are you buying a X1800XT Morph, or just defending them? Just curious.

 

nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
10,460
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Originally posted by: Matthias99

No great surprises in performance; the X1800XT matched or beat the 460/1300 7800GTX in every test except The Sims 2. Overall, it was better in two tests, worse in one, and equal in the other five. They did mention that there seemed to be a bug with HDR in Serious Sam 2 that prevented it from working properly on the X1800XT.

As for pricing, keep in mind that they are comparing in this review against a factory overclocked 7800GTX; those cards are still near $500. The exact one they're comparing against is $510 on Newegg. A stock (430/1200) GTX would be somewhat slower, and the X1800XT might have edged out more tests against such a card. Certainly the card is no bargain at $600, but it shouldn't stay there long.

This is a very good post Mathias, very fair and takes the article into consideration, rather than just yelling "I like brand X!"

However, I'd note that the BFG they reviewed is clocked LOWER than an EVGA KO, Asus Top, XFX, and Leadtek. All cards that are currently cheaper than a X1800XT, have way better warranties, and run quieter by far in the case of the Asus and Leadtek?

FIXED

BTW I've seen the XFX and Leadtek at $499 and $509 respectively.
 

Matthias99

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2003
8,808
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Originally posted by: Rollo
Originally posted by: Matthias99

No great surprises in performance; the X1800XT matched or beat the 460/1300 7800GTX in every test except The Sims 2. Overall, it was better in two tests, worse in one, and equal in the other five. They did mention that there seemed to be a bug with HDR in Serious Sam 2 that prevented it from working properly on the X1800XT.

As for pricing, keep in mind that they are comparing in this review against a factory overclocked 7800GTX; those cards are still near $500. The exact one they're comparing against is $510 on Newegg. A stock (430/1200) GTX would be somewhat slower, and the X1800XT might have edged out more tests against such a card. Certainly the card is no bargain at $600, but it shouldn't stay there long.

This is a very good post Mathias, very fair and takes the article into consideration, rather than just yelling "I like brand X!"

However, I'd note that the BFG they reviewed is clocked LOWER than an EVGA KO, Asus Top, XFX, and Leadtek. All cards that are currently almost $100 cheaper than a X1800XT, have way better warranties, and run quieter by far in the case of the Asus and Leadtek?

Those (490/1300) cards are (generally) all in the $500-600 range right now, so the price difference is not that great. But you're right; if you have to buy a card at the high end today, a 7800GTX is a better deal. The situation could change considerably in the next few weeks, as prices on the X1800XT drop, and ones on the 7800GTXs start to adjust from the competition.

Like I said, I don't think the X1800XT is a good deal at $600 (that is, if any $500+ video card can be called a "good deal"). At ~$500, it starts to look competitive with an OCed 7800GTX. Hopefully we'll see some 256MB models soon with lower prices as well.

I think it's too early to make a call on the noise levels, since AT found the card to be fine in that regard. And it could vary considerably based on which card model you buy.
 

RobertR1

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2004
1,113
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Originally posted by: Rollo
Originally posted by: Matthias99
However, I'd note that the BFG they reviewed is clocked LOWER than an EVGA KO, Asus Top, XFX, and Leadtek. All cards that are currently almost $100 cheaper than a X1800XT, have way better warranties, and run quieter by far in the case of the Asus and Leadtek?

Show me where you can find a KO or Asus TOP card for $499?
http://labs.anandtech.com/search.php?q=evga+7800gtx+ko
http://labs.anandtech.com/search.php?q=asus+TOP

The x1800xt prices aren't a $100 above those cards:
http://labs.anandtech.com/search.php?q=x1800xt

Personally, I'm getting the 7800GTX 512MB because I play at 1920x1200 so every little bit helps but if that card was NOT coming out and I wanted maximum performance with AA/AF enabled in FPS games (which are what I play) the x1800xt would be the best fit for me. Instead of looking at every benchmark on the planet a smart consumer would only concern themselves with benchmarks that are relevant to games that they play majority of the time.

Someone who's willing to pay $579 for a KO or TOP card shouldn't really bitch about another $20 for a x1800xt. That's just nitpicking. I excpect the x1800xt's street price to match it's MSRP or below as soon the 7800GTX 512MB card is released. Once that occurs the x1800xt will clearly be a better buy than a 7800GTX 256MB OC'd card.

I have no favorite company because neither company cares about me. They only care about getting my money. They'll have to earn it. A year ago, Ati earned it with their x800xtpe and this year nvidia will earn it with their 7800GTX 512MB card.
 

deadseasquirrel

Golden Member
Nov 20, 2001
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Originally posted by: Matthias99
Like I said, I don't think the X1800XT is a good deal at $600 (that is, if any $500+ video card can be called a "good deal").

:thumbsup:

At a $600 price range, the best performance is from SLI 7800GTs. Granted, I haven't seen this new 7800Ultra bench, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it will still not match the performance of SLI 7800GTs. We already know the SLI 7800GTs will beat the XT and GTX, sometimes by a wide margin.
 

nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
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Originally posted by: RobertR1
Originally posted by: Rollo
Originally posted by: Matthias99
However, I'd note that the BFG they reviewed is clocked LOWER than an EVGA KO, Asus Top, XFX, and Leadtek. All cards that are currently almost $100 cheaper than a X1800XT, have way better warranties, and run quieter by far in the case of the Asus and Leadtek?

Show me where you can find a KO or Asus TOP card for $499?
http://labs.anandtech.com/search.php?q=evga+7800gtx+ko
http://labs.anandtech.com/search.php?q=asus+TOP

The x1800xt prices aren't a $100 above those cards:
http://labs.anandtech.com/search.php?q=x1800xt

Personally, I'm getting the 7800GTX 512MB because I play at 1920x1200 so every little bit helps but if that card was NOT coming out and I wanted maximum performance with AA/AF enabled in FPS games (which are what I play) the x1800xt would be the best fit for me. Instead of looking at every benchmark on the planet a smart consumer would only concern themselves with benchmarks that are relevant to games that they play majority of the time.

Someone who's willing to pay $579 for a KO or TOP card shouldn't really bitch about another $20 for a x1800xt. That's just nitpicking. I excpect the x1800xt's street price to match it's MSRP or below as soon the 7800GTX 512MB card is released. Once that occurs the x1800xt will clearly be a better buy than a 7800GTX 256MB OC'd card.

I have no favorite company because neither company cares about me. They only care about getting my money. They'll have to earn it. A year ago, Ati earned it with their x800xtpe and this year nvidia will earn it with their 7800GTX 512MB card.


Fixed the pricing. 2/4 are around $100 cheaper. I've seen the XFX for $499 many places, and the Leadtek is $509 at an etailer you can find in my thread about that card.
 

Alexstarfire

Senior member
Jul 25, 2004
385
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Wow, I didn't think I'd be attcked so much for posting in here. I don't have proof that anyone is going to get an aftermarket heatsink, but if you're already going to spend something like $600 I don't think another $20 to get less noise and better cooling is really going to affect them.

About the 512MB 7800 GTX. I'm not going to place any direct links in here, mainly cause I'm lazy. But you can check out some posts over at Guru3D under the nVidia section. They have links to other sites in there. I know The Inquirer is a source for sure and I believe Xbit and Drivers Heaven are there too. If you really want me to I'll go post some sources. I'm sure many of them have already been posted in here but I haven't read every single post, and don't plan on it. You're right in that I don't know what the performance of the new nVidia card will be, but if it's even close to the specs I've seen it's going to beat the X1800XT quite soundly.

I am not an employee to anyone, I don't even have a job, so I don't know why you asked/suggested that. As for the post count. I may be wrong, I think on a smaller scale since I'm used to posting on Guru3D. There aren't as many people on there so when I see a ton of people bumping in the For Sale forum I generalize it to everyone on here. I'm sorry about that, if I'm wrong, just need to get used to bigger forums.

Not sure what else you want me to elaborate on. I also don't appreciate it that you decided to attack my opinions.


@RobertR1, I wouldn't expect the prices of the ATI cards to fall that fast, just based on their previous card releases. Doesn't mean that it won't or can't happen, but just not likely. BTW, the 512MB 7800 GTX is supposedly coming out this month. For some reason I doubt that, but that's just what I've read. Just another rason why I wouldn't expect the X1800XTs to fall below MSRP before it coems out.
 

Gamingphreek

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
11,679
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Wow, I didn't think I'd be attcked so much for posting in here. I don't have proof that anyone is going to get an aftermarket heatsink, but if you're already going to spend something like $600 I don't think another $20 to get less noise and better cooling is really going to affect them.

BUt for most cards it voids the warranty. 600 once is ok for them, but most probably dont want to drop another 600 if something gets screwed up and their warranty isn't there to fall back on.

-Kevin
 

deadseasquirrel

Golden Member
Nov 20, 2001
1,736
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Originally posted by: KeepItRed
Notice most of those games run in OpenGL? Try comparing some D3D, that would be accurate.:)

The XT is doing quite well in OpenGL games now. See here.

The XT is a very good card. It may have some noise issues that matter to some, as a couple of reviews have pointed out. Some people are just more sensitive to that sort of thing than others. Doesn't bother me a bit. I have 2 6800GTs going in my system and can't hear how loud the fans are because it's either at night and I'm using headphones or during the day and the kids are banging away on their systems making much more noise than I ever could. But I could see how it could bother someone else.

There is only 1 thing hurting the XT right now. Price. Its direct competitor has been out for over 4 months and has already come down in price some since then. Once availability grows, I'm sure the XT price will come down, but, by that time, the GTX may have also come down to make room for the new 512mb GTX.

If the 512mb GTX comes out around $550, I see them dropping the price of their 256mb GTX to around $400 (since many are in the $450 range right now). What's the XT right now-- $600? That means they need to drop AT LEAST another $150 within the next couple of weeks to be price-competitive. nV will have had about 5 months to make that happen with their GTX.... how is ATI gonna do it in just a couple of weeks as supply begins to just trickle out there?
 

KeepItRed

Senior member
Jul 19, 2005
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Originally posted by: deadseasquirrel
how is ATI gonna do it in just a couple of weeks as supply begins to just trickle out there?

It's possible they have a PE up their sleeve. :p
 
Sep 6, 2005
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Originally posted by: KeepItRed
Originally posted by: deadseasquirrel
how is ATI gonna do it in just a couple of weeks as supply begins to just trickle out there?

It's possible they have a PE up their sleeve. :p

And it's possible that that's why nVidia is naming the 512mb version a GTX, so they can counter a possible PE from ATI with an Ultra...

 

Pete

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
4,953
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Just to clarify, fan/cooler noise has two somewhat distinct components: pitch and intensity. Cooler A may be technically louder than cooler B in that its sound intensity (dB level) is higher, but ppl may find it less annoying if the sound it produces is lower in pitch (deeper, less whiny). So, while the XT may be "just" 3dB (I think it's dBA, though, isn't it?) louder, its tone is apparently much more grating to the human ear, so it's perceived as much more annoying.

But I wouldn't pass judgement from a single review sample alone. Did other reviews note the whine in addition to the noise?