Harder to hit a MLB fastball or pitch one?

[HopJokey]

But does 'make contact' count as 'hitting'? I would say no. And why do people keep mentioning 95mph? It's not in the poll or the OP. Tim Wakefield averaged 76MPH on his fastball in 2004 (courtecy of wiki). He's an MLB pitcher too.

You can get lucky and get a ball through the strike zone. You can't get lucky and hit a ball 300ft for a home run.

The average MLB fastball is 88-89 MPH.

http://www.webball.com/cms/page1330.cfm

 

[bteeter]

Throwing 90mph isn't something you "develop". You either have it or you don't, just like the reflexes to react to a pitch in .1 seconds. I need some of those good drugs you're on.

BTW there are more than a few pitchers who are in MLB and throwing at your velocity (low 80s). For example, look up how hard Jamie Moyer and Livan Hernandez top out at (80~mph). It's all about location (think Cliff Lee) and spin (think Mariano Rivera/Tim Wakefield for lack thereof), velocity is sexy but not the be all end all to becoming a major league pitcher. Most starters don't even consistently hit over 95, and anyone who can for 6 innings or more is going to get a big league deal regardless of their other pitches since it's so moldable (think split finger, circle change). We're talking less than .5% of the population here.

You are absolutely wrong on both counts.

First, I am not on drugs, thanks. Absolutely you have to develop the ability to throw that hard. NO ONE has it in them with no training to throw a 90mph fastball. Take any powerlifter out there right now, give them a ball and see how hard they throw. None of them will hit 90 mph.

Yet.

A 150 lb scrawny kid named Lincecum through years of training his body, mechanics, timing, etc was able to train himself to do so.


Second, velocity is not everything, but it is the ticket in the door.

Wakefield is an anomoly. How many knuckleballers make it to the MLB? How many are there active now? I think he's the only 1. His unreal control of his knuckle and his years of experience is the only reason he is still playing. Take any other 40+ knuckleballer, no matter how good he is, no scout is ever going to look at him. Why? To old, too slow.

Jamie Moyer is 48 years old. The only reason he's still playing is that he has 20+ years of experience proving he can play. He used to have some gas, but not anymore. His sub par fast ball is not keeping them there. No one who is 40+ playing ball and throwing 80 mph is going to get a second look at by any pro baseball scout. None.

The bottom line is unless you are:

1) Young
2) Have the ability to throw 90+
3) Have command of that 90+ pitch

no scout is going to look at you in baseball. Trust me. I've done a ton of research on this.

What I did not mention in my post above is that when I pitched against the Na Koa Ikaika pros - I pitched 2 innings of hitless ball. It gave me a short lived time where I thought I had a shot at competing with these guys and trying out to make the team.

What did their scout tell me:

Over 30? Have you played AAA ball or better? Oh, you haven't then no thanks.

Can't hit 90? Why are we even talking to you?

So, think what you want, I've been there and seen what gets you in and what doesn't.

Edit: Check out this artcile on Wakefield and this quote:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/23525-the-future-of-the-knuckleball


"While many teams continue to ignore younger pitchers who cant light up 90+ on a radar gun..."

 

[zinfamous]

Seriously? You can get lucky and make contact with a fastball. You can't get lucky and throw 95 mph heaters.

making contact is not hitting.

an All Star hits balls ~30% of the time.


...and when is the last time Tim Wakefield threw a fastball?

I thought he only had one pitch.

:hmm:

 

[DayLaPaul]

making contact is not hitting.

an All Star hits balls ~30% of the time.


...and when is the last time Tim Wakefield threw a fastball?

I thought he only had one pitch.

:hmm:

OP didn't say anything about batting .300. In fact, he was talking about batting .001 against MLB fastballs or being able to throw an MLB fastball. My point stands.

 

[SP33Demon]

You are absolutely wrong on both counts.

First, I am not on drugs, thanks. Absolutely you have to develop the ability to throw that hard. NO ONE has it in them with no training to throw a 90mph fastball. Take any powerlifter out there right now, give them a ball and see how hard they throw. None of them will hit 90 mph.

Yet.

A 150 lb scrawny kid named Lincecum through years of training his body, mechanics, timing, etc was able to train himself to do so.


Second, velocity is not everything, but it is the ticket in the door.

Wakefield is an anomoly. How many knuckleballers make it to the MLB? How many are there active now? I think he's the only 1. His unreal control of his knuckle and his years of experience is the only reason he is still playing. Take any other 40+ knuckleballer, no matter how good he is, no scout is ever going to look at him. Why? To old, too slow.

Jamie Moyer is 48 years old. The only reason he's still playing is that he has 20+ years of experience proving he can play. He used to have some gas, but not anymore. His sub par fast ball is not keeping them there. No one who is 40+ playing ball and throwing 80 mph is going to get a second look at by any pro baseball scout. None.

The bottom line is unless you are:

1) Young
2) Have the ability to throw 90+
3) Have command of that 90+ pitch

no scout is going to look at you in baseball. Trust me. I've done a ton of research on this.

What I did not mention in my post above is that when I pitched against the Na Koa Ikaika pros - I pitched 2 innings of hitless ball. It gave me a short lived time where I thought I had a shot at competing with these guys and trying out to make the team.

What did their scout tell me:

Over 30? Have you played AAA ball or better? Oh, you haven't then no thanks.

Can't hit 90? Why are we even talking to you?

So, think what you want, I've been there and seen what gets you in and what doesn't.

Edit: Check out this artcile on Wakefield and this quote:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/23525-the-future-of-the-knuckleball


"While many teams continue to ignore younger pitchers who cant light up 90+ on a radar gun..."

Lincecum was born with the god given gift to throw 90mph. Have you seen his flexibility? It's superhuman and is what allows him to whip it, and with his durable arm he can throw 90+. You will never be able to achieve it because you weren't born with that flexiblity, period. To suggest someone could spend even 20 years trying to turn their natural 70mph fastball into 90 will never happen. Everyone would do this if it were possible.

Wakefield the only knuckler? Lol. There are more, Dickey on the Mets is the first guy that pops in my mind - he tops out at mid to low 80's. I'm sure there are more, at least if not the majors in the minors.

So every young kid has to throw 90 to get drafted? What are you smoking? A list from 2008 of MLB average fastball speed:

Chad Bradford, Orioles-Rays 79.6
Jamie Moyer, Phillies 81.2
Tom Glavine, Braves 82.1
Livan Hernandez, Twins-Rockies83.7
Greg Maddux, Padres-Dodgers 83.7
Doug Davis, Diamondbacks 84.6
Barry Zito, Giants84.9
Cla Meredith, Padres 85.1
R.A. Dickey, Mariners 85.1
Kenny Rogers, Tigers85.2

Half of them are still pitching (Moyer, Hernandez, Davis, Zito, Dickey, and I think Meredith), the rest were old and hung it up. You don't even need to throw 86mph to be a MLB pitcher. Hell Bradford could barely throw 85 in his prime but was semi-effective because of his funky release point (submarine style).

 

[zinfamous]

OP didn't say anything about batting .300. In fact, he was talking about batting .001 against MLB fastballs or being able to throw an MLB fastball. My point stands.

no. you argued about making contact. contact /= hitting, and the OP is talking about hitting.

I didn't say he had to bat .300, it's just used to show how hard it is to make an actual hit, if the absolute best players can do it only 30% of the time. I honestly don't think he would simply get lucky and make a hit against an MLB pitcher in 1k tries. make contact, sure...but there is tons of skill involved.

that is not to say that I think pitching is easy, either--and certainly not maintaining the control of someone like Maddux. overall, to reach those comparable levels (All Star hitter, all star pitcher), I'd saying pitching is much more difficult.

And in a game situation, the mental stress on the pitcher is much, much heavier in any given situation.

 

[Drako]

Since I've never been able to throw a ball over 70 mph, I would not be able to throw a MLB fastball.

I could probably hit one though, given enough at bats.

 

[lyssword]

Lincecum was born with the god given gift to throw 90mph. Have you seen his flexibility? It's superhuman and is what allows him to whip it, and with his durable arm he can throw 90+. You will never be able to achieve it because you weren't born with that flexiblity, period. To suggest someone could spend even 20 years trying to turn their natural 70mph fastball into 90 will never happen. Everyone would do this if it were possible.

Wakefield the only knuckler? Lol. There are more, Dickey on the Mets is the first guy that pops in my mind - he tops out at mid to low 80's. I'm sure there are more, at least if not the majors in the minors.

So every young kid has to throw 90 to get drafted? What are you smoking? A list from 2008 of MLB average fastball speed:

Chad Bradford, Orioles-Rays 79.6
Jamie Moyer, Phillies 81.2
Tom Glavine, Braves 82.1
Livan Hernandez, Twins-Rockies83.7
Greg Maddux, Padres-Dodgers 83.7
Doug Davis, Diamondbacks 84.6
Barry Zito, Giants84.9
Cla Meredith, Padres 85.1
R.A. Dickey, Mariners 85.1
Kenny Rogers, Tigers85.2

Half of them are still pitching (Moyer, Hernandez, Davis, Zito, Dickey, and I think Meredith), the rest were old and hung it up. You don't even need to throw 86mph to be a MLB pitcher. Hell Bradford could barely throw 85 in his prime but was semi-effective because of his funky release point (submarine style).

Funny how everybody thinks Lincecum is just a regular joe who's just "flexible". The guy is probably olympic-lifter strong and been hitting some serious weights for 10+ years. He also set UW pullup record (with 40).
He's a workaholic.

 

[paperfist]

Since I've never been able to throw a ball over 70 mph, I would not be able to throw a MLB fastball.

I could probably hit one though, given enough at bats.

I doubt it if we are talking in one session. Swinging that many times your arms are going to fall off and you'll grow more tired as time goes on.

I think if there were a training scenario where you could practice you'd be able to hit a ball way before you could build the arm strength to pitch one that fast.

 

[SP33Demon]

Funny how everybody thinks Lincecum is just a regular joe who's just "flexible". The guy is probably olympic-lifter strong and been hitting some serious weights for 10+ years. He also set UW pullup record (with 40).
He's a workaholic.

Of course he's strong. I mentioned his durable arm, only a freak would be able to absorb that much force that he creates with his flexibility. Olympic lifter strong? Yeah right. Have you seen his current diet?
http://content.usatoday.com/communi...011/03/tim-lincecum-in-n-out-burgers-weight/1

His traditional fare?

Three Double-Doubles. Two fries. A chocolate-strawberry shake. Ketchup please, but hold the lettuce and tomatoes.

"I'm not a big vegetable guy,'' he says.

Let's see, three burgers at 590 calories. Two fries at 395 calories. A shake at 590 calories.

The grand total: 3,150 calories.

Show me any Olympic lifter that eats that everyday and I'll show you pigs that fly.

 

[KK]

Anybody can pitch a fast ball, it may not be fast to other standards, but to the thrower it is. also, given enough at bats, you could smack the ball.

 

[brblx]

this seemed pretty simple on the first page, now it's getting complicated...

when i last played baseball in a league (14 maybe?) the pitches were probably at least 50-60. maybe 70 with your best pitcher. i sucked but could get hits. 70 in a batting cage isn't too bad.

probably never thrown harder than 60 or so. i would imagine it would be a lot easier to kind of 'luck into' hitting an MLB fastball than throwing one...

 

[Drako]

I doubt it if we are talking in one session. Swinging that many times your arms are going to fall off and you'll grow more tired as time goes on.

I think if there were a training scenario where you could practice you'd be able to hit a ball way before you could build the arm strength to pitch one that fast.

Also depends on what type of fastball I'm trying to hit. I guessing I could hit a 4-seamer a lot more often than a 2-seamer, if I got the timing down right

 

[zinfamous]

So every young kid has to throw 90 to get drafted? What are you smoking? A list from 2008 of MLB average fastball speed:

Chad Bradford, Orioles-Rays 79.6
Jamie Moyer, Phillies 81.2
Tom Glavine, Braves 82.1
Livan Hernandez, Twins-Rockies83.7
Greg Maddux, Padres-Dodgers 83.7
Doug Davis, Diamondbacks 84.6
Barry Zito, Giants84.9
Cla Meredith, Padres 85.1
R.A. Dickey, Mariners 85.1
Kenny Rogers, Tigers85.2

Half of them are still pitching (Moyer, Hernandez, Davis, Zito, Dickey, and I think Meredith), the rest were old and hung it up. You don't even need to throw 86mph to be a MLB pitcher. Hell Bradford could barely throw 85 in his prime but was semi-effective because of his funky release point (submarine style).

what the what? 2008? that is the tail-end of all of these guys' career, and they have certainly declined in velocity.

A guy like Maddux was never blazing fast, but I do believe his fastball once topped out at 92, maybe 94? in his prime?

I'm pretty sure these guys were all hurling in the 90s when they were drafted, which was that poster's point.

 

[lyssword]

Of course he's strong. I mentioned his durable arm, only a freak would be able to absorb that much force that he creates with his flexibility. Olympic lifter strong? Yeah right. Have you seen his current diet?
http://content.usatoday.com/communi...011/03/tim-lincecum-in-n-out-burgers-weight/1



Show me any Olympic lifter that eats that everyday and I'll show you pigs that fly.

If those lifters don't care about making a weight class:

..
Yeah, I'm sure Lincecum sits on the couch all day to look like this:

 

[davmat787]

Yeah, I'm sure Lincecum sits on the couch all day to look like this:

It takes muscles to lift a bong all day. :awe:

 

[DayLaPaul]

no. you argued about making contact. contact /= hitting, and the OP is talking about hitting.

I didn't say he had to bat .300, it's just used to show how hard it is to make an actual hit, if the absolute best players can do it only 30% of the time. I honestly don't think he would simply get lucky and make a hit against an MLB pitcher in 1k tries. make contact, sure...but there is tons of skill involved.

that is not to say that I think pitching is easy, either--and certainly not maintaining the control of someone like Maddux. overall, to reach those comparable levels (All Star hitter, all star pitcher), I'd saying pitching is much more difficult.

And in a game situation, the mental stress on the pitcher is much, much heavier in any given situation.

That's a pretty bold statement.

I realize full well that contact /= hitting, but putting the bat on the ball is half the battle.

Also, I think any person with moderate speed can bunt for a base hit 1 time out of 1000.

As for pitching, unless you actually have god given ability, you aren't ever going to sniff 90 on a radar gun.

 

[actuarial]

That's a pretty bold statement.

I realize full well that contact /= hitting, but putting the bat on the ball is half the battle.

Also, I think any person with moderate speed can bunt for a base hit 1 time out of 1000.

As for pitching, unless you actually have god given ability, you aren't ever going to sniff 90 on a radar gun.

How many people are going to continue this double standard. A bunt is BARE MINIMUM. 90 is ABOVE AVERAGE. Bare minimum is Tim Wakefield. In the 70s (still very hard).

Here's another way to look at it. Put an average MLB pitcher on the mound and ask him to throw 30 fastballs. How many of those do you think go in for strikes? Probably 80-90%.

Put an average MLB hitter in the box and tell him the pitchers going to go all fastballs all the time. Do you think the same % drops in for hits?

And part of this is stupid because no one mentions 'fastballs' when using the phrase. It's hitting an MLB pitch, which is infinitely harder. And statistics don't lie - the percentages are monumentally in favour of the pitcher since they get out 75% of batters.

Here's some more stats - Adrian Gonzalez has 192 hits so far this year. He's been thrown 1,480 strikes so far. Someone needs to tell him how easy it is to hit a major league pitch.

 

[TallBill]

Watch this: some random joe was able to hit professional league baseball. (Jake Peavy one of the best pitchers at that time) Of course not a base hit, but to make contact isn't that hard. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0rhMM1IUCA

Lol, the 3rd strike of the first out was fucking naaaassttyyy

 

[SP33Demon]

what the what? 2008? that is the tail-end of all of these guys' career, and they have certainly declined in velocity.

A guy like Maddux was never blazing fast, but I do believe his fastball once topped out at 92, maybe 94? in his prime?

I'm pretty sure these guys were all hurling in the 90s when they were drafted, which was that poster's point.

The point is that the average speed in MLB isn't even 90mph. And you're wrong, look up how hard Chad Bradford or RA Dickey threw when they were drafted. Hell even I topped out at 80mph as a closer in high school. Again, velocity is secondary to location and spin and you don't need to throw 90 to pitch in baseball. It's just like idiots used to say in the 1990's that you needed to be at least 6 foot or taller to make it.

Lincecum eats like absolute sht as shown above. But he doesn't need to be musclebound to succeed, only flexibility and a durable rotator to withstand that force. And not get fat to interfere with his mechanics!

 

[pcgeek11]

Baseball fans always tell me hitting a MLB fastball is one of the hardest things in sports. I never bought it since I thought just pitching a MLB fastball had to be harder. Give me 1000 chances to hit a MLB fastball and I would get lucky somewhere along the way. Give me 1000 chances to throw a MLB fastball and I would fail pretty soon I think. I think a person can throw a MLB fastball or they can't

No you probably wouldn't " luck out " and hit one.

Obvious you have never been on the receiving end of a fastball.

 

[lyssword]

Here's another way to look at it. Put an average MLB pitcher on the mound and ask him to throw 30 fastballs. How many of those do you think go in for strikes? Probably 80-90%.

Put an average MLB hitter in the box and tell him the pitchers going to go all fastballs all the time. Do you think the same % drops in for hits?

Actual pitching vs hitting fastball in same location/same speed batting practice is totally different.

If you give a pro batter pitching machine set at 90mph that throws in exact location, after a few swings he will adjust and start hitting 9/10 baseballs that are pitched.

It's the inconsistency and trick pitches that a pitcher throws that makes batters miss/get bad contact.

 

[bhanson]

When I played baseball in high school our Ace could throw 78. Most were a bit slower than this.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

You can hit a major league fastball on a random swing... You'll never randomly throw a ball 98mph.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

what the what? 2008? that is the tail-end of all of these guys' career, and they have certainly declined in velocity.

A guy like Maddux was never blazing fast, but I do believe his fastball once topped out at 92, maybe 94? in his prime?

I'm pretty sure these guys were all hurling in the 90s when they were drafted, which was that poster's point.

Maddox was never a 90+ fastball guy. He made his living by nibbling the corners. He's the paradigm of a location/motion pitcher. I'm sure he could occasionally pull a 90+ out of his ass when he needed it but nobody drafted him for his fastball.