Harder to hit a MLB fastball or pitch one?

[dank69]

ability != skill

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Which is harder: Killing Bin Laden or hitting a MLB fast ball?

 

[flvinny521]

I agree that throwing a MLB-quality fastball is harder for an average Joe, no argument there. However, that statement is suggesting that the hardest task for an athlete, who is specifically trained to perform this task, is hitting a MLB pitch. I don't know if I completely agree with that statement but I do think it's much harder for a hitter to hit a pitch than a pitcher to throw one, especially a fastball.

This. They're not talking about whether or not 100 average Joes could successfully complete a specfic task. They are talking about professionals at the highest level of their specific sport.

Are there any other sports tasks where a professional could fail 70% of the time and still be considered elite at that particular task?

 

[dank69]

This. They're not talking about whether or not 100 average Joes could successfully complete a specfic task. They are talking about professionals at the highest level of their specific sport.

Are there any other sports tasks where a professional could fail 70% of the time and still be considered elite at that particular task?

Not to mention, the claim isn't 'hitting a MLB fastball,' it's 'hitting a MLB pitch.' The two are worlds apart.

 

[BudAshes]

hitting a fastball is easy, go to the batting cage turn it up to 90 and i gaurantee you will hit them. Problem is those cut fast balls and sliders. Mix those in and it becomes impossible for 99.9% of the population.

 

[LordMorpheus]

I know guys in great shape that have played baseball most of their lives that throwing all out are hitting low 80s.

Basically 0% of the population can throw major league speeds. You can teach anyone how to swing a bat (it's unlikely they'll be any good, but you can teach them how to swing and here and there they'll put the bat on the ball), but you can't teach velocity.

 

[rcpratt]

I guess the problem here is that there are two fundamentally different ways to approach this question.

 

[actuarial]

I know guys in great shape that have played baseball most of their lives that throwing all out are hitting low 80s.

Basically 0% of the population can throw major league speeds. You can teach anyone how to swing a bat (it's unlikely they'll be any good, but you can teach them how to swing and here and there they'll put the bat on the ball), but you can't teach velocity.

That assumes that 'hitting' simply means making contact.

You're applying completely different standards to what you're talking about. In one case you're talking about doing a skill at an above average major league level (there are more than a few MLB pitchers who don't throw 90+), and in the other you're talking about a executing the skill at a sub major league level (making simple contact with a straight pitch that you know what pitch it is).

Far more people could throw a strike than could hit a home run against MLB pitching. Does that standard accurately answer the question?

 

[finglobes]

I know guys in great shape that have played baseball most of their lives that throwing all out are hitting low 80s.

Basically 0% of the population can throw major league speeds. You can teach anyone how to swing a bat (it's unlikely they'll be any good, but you can teach them how to swing and here and there they'll put the bat on the ball), but you can't teach velocity.

That's what I was thinking basically. From what I understand throwing overhand isn't even a natural movement in that the shoulder is geared more for throwing underhand. Great pitchers are often anatomical outliers. I recall Pedro Martinez on TV once when he was showing how his fingers bent in ways that were eccentric and gave him unique leverage upon release. Pitching well is a bit freaky imo

 

[torpid]

Since you didn't define hitting, I am not sure how to vote. I would like to assume you mean, "getting the bat to connect with the ball" but you might mean "achieve an MLB hit." The latter is certainly a billion times harder than the former, and the former is not a useful measure.

 

[aldamon]

Doesn't Rick Ankiel's story basically end this debate? He had major league pitching talent, developed a catastrophic case of the yips, came back as an outfielder, and then hit 25 HRs. Pitching is harder.

 

[gorcorps]

I value pitching more since great pitching will beat out great hitting 8 out of 10 times. Hence why great hitters are paid more, it's rarer. The money says hitting is more valuable regarding difficulty.

:hmm:


Am I not reading this right? How can you value pitchers more, and then describe how good hitters are rarer and make more?

 

[torpid]

Doesn't Rick Ankiel's story basically end this debate? He had major league pitching talent, developed a catastrophic case of the yips, came back as an outfielder, and then hit 25 HRs. Pitching is harder.

Half of the pitchers basically have to know how to bat decently. Very few batters have to know how to pitch decently. Therefore I'm not sure Rick Ankiel or other pitchers-turned-outfielders offer evidence one way or another.

 

[davmat787]

How many times have we seen athletes from other sports throw out the ceremonial first pitch and have it go no where near home plate?

Exhibit A: John Wall
Exhibit B: Carl Lewis

 

[ElFenix]

you're comparing apples and oranges. and it's "hitting a major league pitch" is the among the hardest things. if you do it 3 out of 10 times over your career, you go to the hall of fame.

3 out of 10 is batting average. plate appearances is higher than at bats due to sacrifices and walks. and average pitches per at bat is somewhere between 3 and 4.

so, per strike and hittable ball, the average is probably 5% even for a .300 hitter.

 

[lyssword]

Watch this: some random joe was able to hit professional league baseball. (Jake Peavy one of the best pitchers at that time) Of course not a base hit, but to make contact isn't that hard. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0rhMM1IUCA

 

[darkxshade]

I thought a fastball was a type of pitch and not directly determined by speed? Thus you can have a 70mph fastball in the MLB. If true, you could make the argument that it's easier to throw one than to hit one. More likely you will find it's fairly even since you could counter by saying you get more lucky with a 70mph fastball. In the end, you're just grasping at straws.

 

[bteeter]

Pitching a MLB quality fastball is infinitely harder. Hitting one not so much and I'm not talking out of my ass here.

I play in the Maui Adult Baseball and Maui Open Baseball leagues, on a weekly basis I see and pretty easily hit pitching in the range of 60-80 mph. That is pretty easy to be honest. I don't reach base every time of course, but putting the bat on the ball is not hard.

I've also played in a scrimmage game with our local pro team the Na Koa Ikaika from the North American Baseball League (an independent league). Their pitchers throw high 80's to low 90's and have sick breaking pitches. In 2 at bats in the scrimmage I hit the ball both times. Mind you they were both ground outs, but I did hit it. In fact, most of the guys on our team were able to hit it. Again, not well, but they didn't strike out.

So based on my experience, I'd say the hitting part is not so hard.

As it turns out I'm also a starting pitcher in our leagues. I'm 35, 6'2" 200 lbs and in good shape and on a good day, I'm toping out in the low 70s. I have good breaking stuff and change speed a lot which makes me effective. I'm not blowing the ball by anyone unless I set them up really well.

It would take me probably a year of working out, specifically with the aim of increasing velocity, to make it consistently to the low-mid 80s.

Even then, I'm not sure I could ever at this point in my life develop a 90 mph fastball. Maybe if that was my sole focus in training and I had infinite time and resources to get there.

So, I'd say based on my experience the task of throwing a MLB quality fastball is infinitely harder.

 

[SP33Demon]

:hmm:


Am I not reading this right? How can you value pitchers more, and then describe how good hitters are rarer and make more?

If building a championship team, great pitching is more valuable because it's statistically going to win you the most games.

Great hitters are rarer which is why they are paid the most, aside from the fact they will individually add the most value to a team because they play every game. Watch how much Pujols will get on his new contract, no pitcher is even close to getting 30 mil a year - but he will surpass that. Halladay signed for 20mil a year but was valued in the 23-25 range. CC got 21~.

In summary, getting a hit is harder than locating a pitch at the MLB level. Hence why good hitters are paid more than good pitchers. However, great pitching is still the #1 necessity to win a championship because the odds favor pitchers in getting an out.

If hitting was so easy, how come the last time anyone batted .400+ was in 1941? And we may never even see that again.

 

[zinfamous]

statistically speaking, I believe that hitting an MLB pitch is second only to defending a penalty shot in soccer, as far as "most difficult thing to do in sports" goes.

It's pretty close. I think successful defense of penalty shots for the previous season is around 28%? While, as you know, a very good MLB hitter will be in the 30%, though most are ~27%

ESPN popped this up back during the World Cup.

 

[actuarial]

Half of the pitchers basically have to know how to bat decently. Very few batters have to know how to pitch decently. Therefore I'm not sure Rick Ankiel or other pitchers-turned-outfielders offer evidence one way or another.

Mike McCoy of the Blue Jays came out of the outfield this year to pitch a 1-2-3 inning.

 

[SP33Demon]

Even then, I'm not sure I could ever at this point in my life develop a 90 mph fastball. Maybe if that was my sole focus in training and I had infinite time and resources to get there.

So, I'd say based on my experience the task of throwing a MLB quality fastball is infinitely harder.

Throwing 90mph isn't something you "develop". You either have it or you don't, just like the reflexes to react to a pitch in .1 seconds. I need some of those good drugs you're on.

BTW there are more than a few pitchers who are in MLB and throwing at your velocity (low 80s). For example, look up how hard Jamie Moyer and Livan Hernandez top out at (80~mph). It's all about location (think Cliff Lee) and spin (think Mariano Rivera/Tim Wakefield for lack thereof), velocity is sexy but not the be all end all to becoming a major league pitcher. Most starters don't even consistently hit over 95, and anyone who can for 6 innings or more is going to get a big league deal regardless of their other pitches since it's so moldable (think split finger, circle change). We're talking less than .5% of the population here.

 

[DayLaPaul]

Seriously? You can get lucky and make contact with a fastball. You can't get lucky and throw 95 mph heaters.

 

[actuarial]

Seriously? You can get lucky and make contact with a fastball. You can't get lucky and throw 95 mph heaters.

But does 'make contact' count as 'hitting'? I would say no. And why do people keep mentioning 95mph? It's not in the poll or the OP. Tim Wakefield averaged 76MPH on his fastball in 2004 (courtecy of wiki). He's an MLB pitcher too.

You can get lucky and get a ball through the strike zone. You can't get lucky and hit a ball 300ft for a home run.

 

[NeoV]

As someone who played college baseball, I'd like to think I know what I'm talking about here.

That said - the question posed is really kind of silly. You can either throw a ball really hard or you can't - yes, with good training and proper mechanics you can add a few MPH to your fastball - but you can't just take someone off the street and make them or develop them into someone who can throw an MLB-caliber fastball (90mph+).

It isn't like working out - where you could technically take someone off the street, have them train, and they get in much better shape - you aren't going to 'make' major league pitchers.

As for the discussion with position players pitching - these guys have been playing baseball since they were little kids - yes, pitchers don't bat as often any longer, but many of them, in fact most of them, were star players in HS and college both pitching and hitting.

Also -Tim Wakefield is a knuckle-ball pitcher - how hard his fastball is outside the discussion.

Ankiel, in particular - could have been a center fielder or a pitcher - he chose, and the Cardinals chose, to start him on the mound - Josh Hamilton was a great pitching prospect as well - going back a bit - John Olerud - the guy who had to wear a batting helmet in the field (precaution), was one of the dominant pitchers in the NCAA when he was at Wash St.

Finally - hitting a major league pitching - the comment is often made that it's the hardest thing to do in professional sports - that is really impossible to quantify, but in terms of reaction time and hand-eye coordination needed, it's got to be up there - returning serves in tennis, goalies stopping shots in hockey, I'd imagine there are a few others with similar reaction requirements - and none of them are easy.

Finally - as for the guy talking about Independent league pitching - there are very few guys in those leagues throwing over 90 mph, and I'm talking about all the Independent leagues, combined, across the country. If you can throw a baseball 90+ mph and have some idea of where it is going, major league teams are going to find you and give you a chance in the low minors. The Independent leagues are mostly made up of guys not quite good enough to play minor league ball - and for pitchers that mostly means they don't throw hard enough.