HANS BLIX: A war of utter folly

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: chucky2
The UN is basically one big clusterf*ck...

:beer: I'll drink to that...

I like how the US runs to the UN 150 times a month with complaints and then discards it when it doesn't jump when the US says jump.

The UN is the sum of the nations involved, the US under GW has behaved like a kid in kindergarten who got his way because of who he is.

I applaud the UN for taking a stand against Somalia, something the US doesn't dare to do because China supports them and the US is basically becoming the puppet of China.

China says jump, so JUMP palehorse.

You are a child right Highschooler? Is this what your teacher said?

No, wise and beautiful woman, i am a captain in the SAS, stationed in Afghanistan.

And you forgot to jump.

(Edited to add moderator response)

That is a completely unacceptable personal attack, and you've been warned about that before. We'll see you in a week.

Rainsford
AnandTech Politics and News Moderator

Time for bed Junior right after you wash that mouth out!

Anyways the U.N. = SCUM of the nations involved.

Ok, that wordplay may impress the guys in your logcabin but to me, you are still just stupid.

You're boring the living daylights out of me, at the fucking least you could try to be original, just once in your pathetic existance as a "big man" who never did anything but thinks he can float on true patriots accomplishments. There are great men turning in their graves every time you speak.

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Before the US invaded Iraq Islamic terrorism was not the main terrorism activity, it has blossomed since then, i've been to Iraq too and i've seen the "progress" that is non-existent.

You're damn right i am PO'd for the removal of troops from the WoT to go fight a personal vendetta that Cheney and Wolfowitz had planned for more than ten years, don't tell me that isn't the reason, that WAS the reason and you can bet your arse that they were delighted when 9/11 happened, giggling like schoolgirls, but let's deny reality and lets say that the UN wasn't right, that Hans wasn't right and that the US actually believed the bullshit spewed... Where the fuck is the easter bunny, i mean he is MORE real than that crock of shit.

Iraq is a bullshit war and the ONLY reason people don't like the UN is because they don't jump when the US says jump, because the US made fools of themselves with "evidence" that the experts could just dismiss and non experts were sceptical of, the UN could be great but not as a US puppet organisation as many would like it to be.

I'm sick of this and when i go home in June i will quit, i get no support from home either, Iraq is more important for England too, prestige, bullshit and candy arses is the fucking problem, it's changed even more since February and if you'd ask anyone who knows his head from his arse they'd know why.

You've more than earned the right to rant, so I'm not going to rant against you especially never having left my area to even go serve somewhere...

...but you want me to believe the UN actually does anything??? You must have thrown back one too many pints or something. JoS, the UN did nothing for the people in Darfur for years. Then, when the slaughter dies down (because it's hard to find more to butcher), then they go in. But, they don't really go in, they just pay lip service to it. Then, to start really going in, they need 24 - say that number again, it's not a typo with 0's missing at the end - helicopters. 24. Does anything more need to really be said than that?

Face it: Unless the US, the UK, maybe France, maybe China (I laughed a little when I said that), and/or maybe Russia (again another laugh) actually take a stand to get something accomplished, the UN is a nothing entity. It's like some goodie goodie kid yelling at a schoolyard not to run because the teacher said not to...meanwhile there's running, fighting, drug dealing, etc. going on.

They should just deliver to all the countries a telecomm package that allows every country with comm access to every other country, then just disband the UN. Let legit international groups in each area of concern take up causes, it will do just as much good.

Chuck

 

[EXman]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: chucky2
The UN is basically one big clusterf*ck...

:beer: I'll drink to that...

I like how the US runs to the UN 150 times a month with complaints and then discards it when it doesn't jump when the US says jump.

The UN is the sum of the nations involved, the US under GW has behaved like a kid in kindergarten who got his way because of who he is.

I applaud the UN for taking a stand against Somalia, something the US doesn't dare to do because China supports them and the US is basically becoming the puppet of China.

China says jump, so JUMP palehorse.

You are a child right Highschooler? Is this what your teacher said?

No, wise and beautiful woman, i am a captain in the SAS, stationed in Afghanistan.

And you forgot to jump.

(Edited to add moderator response)

That is a completely unacceptable personal attack, and you've been warned about that before. We'll see you in a week.

Rainsford
AnandTech Politics and News Moderator

Time for bed Junior right after you wash that mouth out!

Anyways the U.N. = SCUM of the nations involved.

Ok, that wordplay may impress the guys in your logcabin but to me, you are still just stupid.

You're boring the living daylights out of me, at the fucking least you could try to be original, just once in your pathetic existance as a "big man" who never did anything but thinks he can float on true patriots accomplishments. There are great men turning in their graves every time you speak.

<yawn>

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: chucky2
This is in response to basically everyone who replied to me above, I'll try and clear up where I'm coming from:

First, I could care less about what the UN thinks, or Hans Blix.

Chuck

Well see, there's your problem right there. Whether you respect them or not, they were right. So continue to dismiss them at your own peril.

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: chucky2
This is in response to basically everyone who replied to me above, I'll try and clear up where I'm coming from:

First, I could care less about what the UN thinks, or Hans Blix.

Chuck

Well see, there's your problem right there. Whether you respect them or not, they were right. So continue to dismiss them at your own peril.

Anyone, from brain dead idiot to smartest person on the Earth, can take positions on every topic imaginable - whether they know anything about it or not, whether they have any way of knowing what they think they know is right - and by chance, be right.

That means nothing.

Chuck

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: chucky2
This is in response to basically everyone who replied to me above, I'll try and clear up where I'm coming from:

First, I could care less about what the UN thinks, or Hans Blix.

Chuck

Well see, there's your problem right there. Whether you respect them or not, they were right. So continue to dismiss them at your own peril.

Anyone, from brain dead idiot to smartest person on the Earth, can take positions on every topic imaginable - whether they know anything about it or not, whether they have any way of knowing what they think they know is right - and by chance, be right.

That means nothing.

Chuck

Ahh, but you see, they did know what they were talking about. It seems you should direct your comments to yourself.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: chucky2
The UN is basically one big clusterf*ck...

:beer: I'll drink to that...

I like how the US runs to the UN 150 times a month with complaints and then discards it when it doesn't jump when the US says jump.

The UN is the sum of the nations involved, the US under GW has behaved like a kid in kindergarten who got his way because of who he is.

I applaud the UN for taking a stand against Somalia, something the US doesn't dare to do because China supports them and the US is basically becoming the puppet of China.

China says jump, so JUMP palehorse.

You are a child right Highschooler? Is this what your teacher said?

No, wise and beautiful woman, i am a captain in the SAS, stationed in Afghanistan.

And you forgot to jump.

(Edited to add moderator response)

That is a completely unacceptable personal attack, and you've been warned about that before. We'll see you in a week.

Rainsford
AnandTech Politics and News Moderator

That is one word that seems to get people in trouble, even in P&N.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: chucky2
When Hans can explain why he thinks UN weapons inspections matter at all in the long run when he couldn't find something the size of an industrial centrifuge buried in a rose garden, then he can go shoot his mouth off. Until then, his views are basically irrelevant.

Chuck

Ignoramus, the entire US invasion was justified based on the 'threat' of those WMD's; the use of force authorization bill was based on giving Bush leverage *to get Blix's team in Iraq*.

You don't know the most basic history of the US-Iraq war, and you are happy to come here and spout nonsense.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: chucky2
This is in response to basically everyone who replied to me above, I'll try and clear up where I'm coming from:

First, I could care less about what the UN thinks, or Hans Blix. The UN is basically one big clusterf*ck...it can't get out of its own way, let alone accomplish anything unless the US or smaller big nations actually step and and do what 100's of countries are supposed to be doing cooperatively - the F'ing UN can't even get 24 motherF'ing helicopters for Sudan...the state of IL could do that if it needed to. The UN has no problems wanting the US to do its bidding, yet when the US wants to act in its interests, the UN/other certain nations can't wait to shoot their mouths off. In short, F the UN. The US should withdraw from it and let the whiny @ss EU nations stand on their own, it's well past WWII and far past the time to do so.

Second, with #1 out of the way, if I'm the POTUS, shortly after 9/11, I'm not going to show the rest of the sh1tpot Leadership in the rest of the world that I'm going to F around with Saddam playing the World yet again with yet another meaningless unenforced UN resolution. The message to them was essentially start cleaning or helping us clean up your act, or the hammer will drop on you. Having Saddam make fools of the World yet once again basically tells every sht1tpot dictator out there that it's just the blabbering US/West again...that'd be a F-tard message to send post 9/11.

Moreover, the job of the weapons inspectors is so overwhelmingly stacked against finding programs in the long term, that it's basically a feel good measure for the World that we're "trying our best" and "doing something". This is why I gave the industrial centrifuge example...that was buried there for years. Years Blix/the UN had to find it, yet they didn't even know it existed, and that's just a F'ing centrifuge, a throwaway piece of equipment. What other stuff did they miss? Where did it go? What was it? Did it even exist? Who might have it now if it did exist? Did the talent that made it survive past creation (if it even existed) or are they dead?

In short: Do I ever want the POTUS to assume that nothing exists becaues the elite Hans says it doesn't??? Uh, F no thanks, I don't think so. I'll take proactive over reactive anyday.

The real reality is that it doesn't matter that then SuperHans wasn't finding any weapons. It doesn't F'ing matter. What matters is that Saddam's long term intent is to get WMD, and as soon as the World relaxes and gets complacent (which it absolutely will, we can already see none of the other countries other than UK wanted the status quo to change, they were making way too much money), he - or his even less stable sons once he was gone - would have sought them again. This is not drinking the "Bush&Co" koolaid, this is using common sense and past intent/actions. Lets see, we already have Iran going the nuke route, with Saddam having WMD, that'd basically mean the ME would be a whole lot harder to exert influence over. Want to send a carrier task force to project power? Well, that's sorta hard when two nations over there can nuke it. Stage forces in SA, Kuwait, or even UAE? Not a great proposition when they can be turned into ashes with one strike. Saddam/Iran having WMD is like us playing poker with them and having half our cards face up on the table...why would we ever take that route given the stakes?

To JoS specifically:

I know you're PO'd at how going into Iraq made the resources that should have been available in Afghanistan/Pakistan go bye bye - I don't argue that one bit. Bush and many others all down the chain of command have misF'd many things, no arguement there at all. We should have been pressing building Afghanistan/destroying the Taliban more than we are now all along. Along with helping the Afghani's rebuild their country to way more degree than we have done.

That doesn't take away from getting rid of Saddam, or the long term ME benefits that may happen as long as we make Iraq work.

I await the flames, time for a tan it's Spring Break season...

Chuck

I skimmed this, is the conclusion that you support the war? I wonder how much hope there is for people like you. You will do anything you can to not admit fault. The fault here lies squarely on the US. I thought the war seemed like a good idea in 03. Despite being lied to, I was still complicit in supporting what, even with the active deception by the US gov, was still a stupid and weak case. I was a moron and so was most of the US, but many of us have since awoken from the lethargy in which we lay. Why haven't you?

The war can be picked apart from various angles. One just for fun is that a country the US is still technically at war with--North Korea--had an active program and finished and tested a nuclear weapon while the US was fvcking around in Iraq. Irony, isn't it? Morover, Kim is far worse to his people and a much larger sponsor of terrorism within his own country. What a clusterfvck.

 

[Jhhnn]

I'm never really surprised when the Bushfans stoop to hyperbole-

When Hans can explain why he thinks UN weapons inspections matter at all in the long run when he couldn't find something the size of an industrial centrifuge buried in a rose garden, then he can go shoot his mouth off. Until then, his views are basically irrelevant.

It was pieces of a centrifuge, not any bigger than a bushel basket. And what else the UN and Everybody else never found were any significant stocks of WMD's, or any evidence of production post-GW1. Very straightforward.

Blix' remarks just weeks prior to the invasion would have indicated to anybody not hell-bent on invasion that the pressure was working, and that the Iraqis were cooperating, and that nothing had been found up to that point. His request for "months" of time to finish his task fell on deaf ears.

Like most people in a position of responsibility, he tempered his remarks at the time, preferring not to make any false positive statements. I rather suspect he realized that it was extremely unlikely that such weapons existed, but he needed to be sure.

The Bush Admin operated under no such constraints- they lie and then believe it themselves, their fanbois along with 'em...

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: Deleted member 4644

Originally posted by: chucky2
When Hans can explain why he thinks UN weapons inspections matter at all in the long run when he couldn't find something the size of an industrial centrifuge buried in a rose garden, then he can go shoot his mouth off. Until then, his views are basically irrelevant.

Chuck

um.. er.. are you suggesting that there *were* WMD in Iraq?

They ALREADY USED WMDs goober is your history book broken?

Why would that matter? He obviously meant at the time of the invasion, not in the 1980's.

 

[Moonbeam]

The important thing is to pretend it was a good idea. If you can get enough people to pretend long enough and hard enough you can change the fact it was a disaster into a stunning triumph of American vision. Perception is reality.

Of course, it is a bit harder this way. You can more effectively pretend that the way things are is how they really are. You won't look like such a delusional fuck-head to people who can see.

 

[theeedude]

Bottom line Bush and fellow idiots who were bashing Hans Blix were wrong, he was right, and now America is paying the price for its folly.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: chucky2
The UN is basically one big clusterf*ck...

:beer: I'll drink to that...

I like how the US runs to the UN 150 times a month with complaints and then discards it when it doesn't jump when the US says jump.

The UN is the sum of the nations involved, the US under GW has behaved like a kid in kindergarten who got his way because of who he is.

I applaud the UN for taking a stand against Somalia, something the US doesn't dare to do because China supports them and the US is basically becoming the puppet of China.

China says jump, so JUMP palehorse.

You are a child right Highschooler? Is this what your teacher said?

No, wise and beautiful woman, i am a captain in the SAS, stationed in Afghanistan.

And you forgot to jump.

That is a completely unacceptable personal attack, and you've been warned about that before. We'll see you in a week.

Rainsford
AnandTech Politics and News Moderator

JoS wasn't the first to make a personal attack. He was responding to one from EXman.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

All I see in this thread is a lot of ignorant American chest-beating.

 

[EXman]

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: Deleted member 4644

Originally posted by: chucky2
When Hans can explain why he thinks UN weapons inspections matter at all in the long run when he couldn't find something the size of an industrial centrifuge buried in a rose garden, then he can go shoot his mouth off. Until then, his views are basically irrelevant.

Chuck

um.. er.. are you suggesting that there *were* WMD in Iraq?

They ALREADY USED WMDs goober is your history book broken?

You mean the ones given to them by the USA?

What the FUCK does that have to do with the situation at the time of the invasion? NOTHING and you know that you stupid twat.

Calm down junior he was wrong wrong wrong. He got owned by himself and you are making yourself look like an ASS.

GodlessAstronomer why don't you read the whole thread bubba. that was the second personal attack. Which he started. I was calm. Please read before owning yourself too.

Anyways let the Mods Moderate. And actually I thought he sounded like a child calling me names like that. I guess he got what he deserved. It's too bad it had to come to that I don't mind arguing but he came on like a school yard bully.

 

[EXman]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: Deleted member 4644

Originally posted by: chucky2
When Hans can explain why he thinks UN weapons inspections matter at all in the long run when he couldn't find something the size of an industrial centrifuge buried in a rose garden, then he can go shoot his mouth off. Until then, his views are basically irrelevant.

Chuck

um.. er.. are you suggesting that there *were* WMD in Iraq?

They ALREADY USED WMDs goober is your history book broken?

Why would that matter? He obviously meant at the time of the invasion, not in the 1980's.

I'm glad you said that. This is where many Democrats that are Bush haters lose their reasoning skills. When a ruthless Dictator gets WMD's and uses them then is told dismantle them and does not show anyone anything to the contrary and defies the rest of the world because:

A) He's got something he does not want to give up.
or
B) He might not have better ones than he originally used 20 years ago. And doesn't want to look weak to his neighbors.
or
C) He dropped all his WMD's and any intellectual property purchased in a big hole in the desert. On top of that he gives up all aspirations of being the dominate force in the region.

What does that tell you?



I'm a old school Conservative, and as such I do not think Getting into the war was a good idea BUT now that we are there we need to guard our investment and not leave these people to destroy itself and hate America that much more. Regan would not have gone to war I am convinced of that. But if he would have inherited the war he would do the right thing.

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: chucky2
This is in response to basically everyone who replied to me above, I'll try and clear up where I'm coming from:

First, I could care less about what the UN thinks, or Hans Blix.

Chuck

Well see, there's your problem right there. Whether you respect them or not, they were right. So continue to dismiss them at your own peril.

Anyone, from brain dead idiot to smartest person on the Earth, can take positions on every topic imaginable - whether they know anything about it or not, whether they have any way of knowing what they think they know is right - and by chance, be right.

That means nothing.

Chuck

Ahh, but you see, they did know what they were talking about. It seems you should direct your comments to yourself.

No, they knew what they knew, that's all. It just turned out that what they knew is what we know...and since that's all we know, that's what we know.

That doesn't mean at the time they knew, that they knew in certainty enough to pronounce knowing.

Chuck

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: chucky2
When Hans can explain why he thinks UN weapons inspections matter at all in the long run when he couldn't find something the size of an industrial centrifuge buried in a rose garden, then he can go shoot his mouth off. Until then, his views are basically irrelevant.

Chuck

Ignoramus, the entire US invasion was justified based on the 'threat' of those WMD's; the use of force authorization bill was based on giving Bush leverage *to get Blix's team in Iraq*.

You don't know the most basic history of the US-Iraq war, and you are happy to come here and spout nonsense.

Ignoramus, I don't care what Hans Blix or any other person in the UN has to say. The UN is not - nor ever - will protect the US from anything. Period.

Unless Hans has some god-like vision into what is and what isn't, I'm not going to take Hans's word over what our own intelligence is telling the POTUS. We depend on the US Fed. to make decisions on the information (unclassified and classified, the classified even Hans isn't going to see much of, even then, it'll be sanitized) we have to protect us, not F'ing Hans Blix.

Chuck

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

I skimmed this, is the conclusion that you support the war?

Yes, but not because I was worried about Saddam dropping a nuke on the US in two years. I support it because 1.) the most important thing is to bring real change to the ME, and 2.) waiting around for one of these sh1tpot dictators to finally get their hands on The Bomb is a lose, lose, lose, and lose some more proposition. It in no way is in our short tem, medium term, long term, or any term interests. A look at the N. Korea F up and what it's going to mean for the next however many decades should be proof positive of that.

I wonder how much hope there is for people like you. You will do anything you can to not admit fault. The fault here lies squarely on the US. I thought the war seemed like a good idea in 03. Despite being lied to, I was still complicit in supporting what, even with the active deception by the US gov, was still a stupid and weak case. I was a moron and so was most of the US, but many of us have since awoken from the lethargy in which we lay. Why haven't you?

See above. It's not about did we find WMD in Iraq. Get this straight: The rest of the world doesn't care because all they like to do is b1tch. Period. They're big talkers, that's it. They whine and moan, but when something needs to get done, instead of taking the lead and volunteering to go first, they wait in line until the US steps forward. Almost (not always, but almost) the only exception to this is UK, and that's only because they are so closely allied with us. That the rest of the world doesn't like that the US did - and is doing - the dirty work in Iraq to the benefit of the rest of the World doesn't rate two sh1ts flushed down the toilet last week from me. Do you seriously care that <insert some country here> doesn't like we went into Iraq? Do you really think they give a F about the Iraqi's??? No, they don't. They care about shooting their mouths off so they can look around at their brethern countries and in the mirror and feel good because the took "the high road". Never mind someone sooner or later needs to take the low road to keep the rotting garbage from wafting up on high stinking up the place. I'll respect Iran and N. Korea before the whiny countries...at least Iran and N. Korea have the balls to just be straight out loony and take a stand.

The war can be picked apart from various angles. One just for fun is that a country the US is still technically at war with--North Korea--had an active program and finished and tested a nuclear weapon while the US was fvcking around in Iraq. Irony, isn't it? Morover, Kim is far worse to his people and a much larger sponsor of terrorism within his own country. What a clusterfvck.

I don't disagree with you at all over N. Korea...not a bit. If anything it should serve as a perfect example as to why going into Iraq then instead of waiting waiting and waiting some more - you know, waiting the appropriate time the EU-type countries would wait, since they don't do jack sh1t until it's far to late - is smarter than going the lets let Hans find nothing - again - and pass yet another resolution that won't be enforced (unless of course the US enforces it, because, well, we're such imperialists), and then in 5, 10, 20 years, Surprise!!! Saddam/Saddam's sons have nukes!

Now what?

Chuck

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: JS80
I thought Hans Brix got eaten by a shark.

Graphic Reenactment, possibly NSFW:

http://www.spike.com/video/2650934/movie/12839

 

[Ldir]

Originally posted by: chucky2
lets let Hans find nothing - again - and pass yet another resolution that won't be enforced (unless of course the US enforces it, because, well, we're such imperialists), and then in 5, 10, 20 years, Surprise!!! Saddam/Saddam's sons have nukes!

Now what?

Nothing. They bark a lot and do not do anything else because they know we will vaporize them if they do. We always hold the trump card. Unless we piss off the rest of the world so much they stop supporting us.

 

[cliftonite]

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: Skoorb

I skimmed this, is the conclusion that you support the war?

Yes, but not because I was worried about Saddam dropping a nuke on the US in two years. I support it because 1.) the most important thing is to bring real change to the ME, and 2.) waiting around for one of these sh1tpot dictators to finally get their hands on The Bomb is a lose, lose, lose, and lose some more proposition. It in no way is in our short tem, medium term, long term, or any term interests. A look at the N. Korea F up and what it's going to mean for the next however many decades should be proof positive of that.


What a load of shit. Yes invading a country, causing tens of thousands of their deaths is a great way to bring about change :roll:

See above. It's not about did we find WMD in Iraq. Get this straight: The rest of the world doesn't care because all they like to do is b1tch. Period. They're big talkers, that's it. They whine and moan, but when something needs to get done, instead of taking the lead and volunteering to go first, they wait in line until the US steps forward. Almost (not always, but almost) the only exception to this is UK, and that's only because they are so closely allied with us. That the rest of the world doesn't like that the US did - and is doing - the dirty work in Iraq to the benefit of the rest of the World doesn't rate two sh1ts flushed down the toilet last week from me. Do you seriously care that <insert some country here> doesn't like we went into Iraq? Do you really think they give a F about the Iraqi's??? No, they don't. They care about shooting their mouths off so they can look around at their brethern countries and in the mirror and feel good because the took "the high road". Never mind someone sooner or later needs to take the low road to keep the rotting garbage from wafting up on high stinking up the place. I'll respect Iran and N. Korea before the whiny countries...at least Iran and N. Korea have the balls to just be straight out loony and take a stand.

War wasnt what needed to be done. Iraq posed NO threat to the US and we have wasted trillions fixing a problem that didnt exist. What benefit is this? Dont give me the "safer" Iraq BS as there are more terrorits there now than 5 years ago.

I don't disagree with you at all over N. Korea...not a bit. If anything it should serve as a perfect example as to why going into Iraq then instead of waiting waiting and waiting some more - you know, waiting the appropriate time the EU-type countries would wait, since they don't do jack sh1t until it's far to late - is smarter than going the lets let Hans find nothing - again - and pass yet another resolution that won't be enforced (unless of course the US enforces it, because, well, we're such imperialists), and then in 5, 10, 20 years, Surprise!!! Saddam/Saddam's sons have nukes!

Now what?

Are we going into all countries without democratic governments/governments that we dont support?
Chuck

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: chucky2
When Hans can explain why he thinks UN weapons inspections matter at all in the long run when he couldn't find something the size of an industrial centrifuge buried in a rose garden, then he can go shoot his mouth off. Until then, his views are basically irrelevant.

Chuck

Ignoramus, the entire US invasion was justified based on the 'threat' of those WMD's; the use of force authorization bill was based on giving Bush leverage *to get Blix's team in Iraq*.

You don't know the most basic history of the US-Iraq war, and you are happy to come here and spout nonsense.

Ignoramus, I don't care what Hans Blix or any other person in the UN has to say. The UN is not - nor ever - will protect the US from anything. Period.

Unless Hans has some god-like vision into what is and what isn't, I'm not going to take Hans's word over what our own intelligence is telling the POTUS. We depend on the US Fed. to make decisions on the information (unclassified and classified, the classified even Hans isn't going to see much of, even then, it'll be sanitized) we have to protect us, not F'ing Hans Blix.

Chuck

You know, it's bad enough that you're so ignorant - but that's ok if you are willing to listen. But when you're instead obnoxious about it, it's about as attractive as a nasty drunk.

The word ignoramus isn't a name to throw around at random, it applies to you and not to me. You make a fool of yourself when you respond as you did.

You clearly lack any understanding of the issue of the Iraq War, the UN and the US. You mix up unrelated issues when trying to discuss it and fail to show any awareness of the relevant issues. Are you aware of the concept of International Law, of the fact that the US has signed the UN's Charter which places restrictions on our use of our military to invade other nations (whether you like it or not), of the role of the UN in Bush's justification for invading Iraq, of the issue of the precedents we're setting for 'preventive war' by any nation?

Let someone who had a little idea about the military, the US's politics, and war say something that may give you a clue there's a little something wrong with Bush policy:

Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly, I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked about such a thing.

Dwight D. Eisenhower

 

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Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: LordSegan

Originally posted by: chucky2
When Hans can explain why he thinks UN weapons inspections matter at all in the long run when he couldn't find something the size of an industrial centrifuge buried in a rose garden, then he can go shoot his mouth off. Until then, his views are basically irrelevant.

Chuck

um.. er.. are you suggesting that there *were* WMD in Iraq?

They ALREADY USED WMDs goober is your history book broken?

Why would that matter? He obviously meant at the time of the invasion, not in the 1980's.

Now you're just getting caught in the minutiae of time. The war was about WMD. His active WMD program. He was actively making WMD on a grand scale.

Oh, sorry, you thought it was about an active program in 2003? Silly boy, we meant 1988.

into the war was a good idea BUT now that we are there we need to guard our investment

You sound like somebody who just bought an ounce of fool's gold at $1000, now knows it's fool's gold, but by God will guard that investment as if it wasn't. Sorry, you screwed up, time to avoid the Sunk Cost Fallacy and stop throwing good money after bad.

around for one of these sh1tpot dictators to finally get their hands on The Bomb is a lose, lose, lose, and lose some more proposition.

Well good job, you just beat up a kid who didn't have any lunch money anyway. Meanwhile the kid who did have money just ran off while you were busy and spent it, so no food for you. You know I'm talking about a man for more devilish than Saddam ever was. A man who oppresses on a greater scale. A man the US is still at war with. A man who has tested nuclear weapons. Why, none other than Kim Jong IL! Great fvcking job!

In regards to the other countries, other countries did talk sh*t and they were right. The war was indeed about WMD. The US said it had a WMD program and posed a threat. It clearly didn't have one and did not pose a threat. It was sterile and easily contained in its borders. It was not working on a bomb at all, so in this case other countries got it right, the US got it wrong.

If anything it should serve as a perfect example as to why going into Iraq then instead of waiting waiting and waiting some more - you know, waiting the appropriate time the EU-type countries would wait

Well then why not attack Iran now, too? If Iraq was working on an extensive WMD program AND was going to sell it to terrorists (which it wouldn't have done, certainly), the war would have been justified. Neither condition existed.

At a glance, the war was predicated on these conditions:

1) Quick win
2) Low cost
3) Iraqis greeting with open arms
4) Extensive, secretive WMD program in effect

All of these have been completely and utterly wrong. Therefore, the war is wrong. The means would have justified the end if the US lucked into something better than it had anticipated, say for example some crazy democratic groundswell combined with oil deposits a million times bigger than ever known and virgins for everyone, but in reality the US now has an unending war of attrition, sucking down staggering dollars, a lot of American lives, a great deal more innocent Iraqi lives (and unlike some, I don't see one as valued at more than another) and with limited at best political progress absolutely no end in sight. Mission Accomplished.