Handguns - Suggestions or tips

[lxskllr]

They can be effective enough for home defense I suppose, but beyond that IMHO I see the revolver as obsolete unless you need absolute reliability. Even for home defense I'd only settle for a 6-8 shot handgun if I could reload it quickly, and to get anywhere close to pistol speed of reload is nigh impossible on a revolver even with extensive training.

People get too wrapped up in technology. A revolver's more than enough for EVERY use, whether home, police, or military. If you need more than 6 shots, you have the wrong weapon for the job.

 

[thepd7]

Ya'Know, the OP plainly said he was new to firearms. Having someone point out the correct terminology should not be viewed as a bad thing. The guy didn't criticize or insult the OP, he simply offered information. What exactly is the problem?

I'd say at least 25 if not 50% of seasoned gun owners call it a clip. No one cares, everyone knows exactly what you are talking about, and the OP did not ask for criticism or nitpicky bull shit, he asked for suggestions on quality guns.

Always buy sig anything else is complete trash.

Sig is like an A

next closest is H&K but only warrants a C there are no B's only D&F after that. That how big gap is in quality.

Try yourself, feel, mechanics, trigger, machining, attention to detail, options. Nothing is close.

Plastic guns recommended is this thread = Hyundai , Sig = S class. Sure they all shoot fine just like all cars drive but one feels a lot better doing it.

*my bias excludes 1911s which run gambit from A-F

It's good to see you're not just a sig whore you're an "anything which cost better is better" whore.

Typical ATOT opinion....

Not at all. I have never seen anyone else on this forum ever say a Glock or a Springfield is trash. I have seen people prefer Sig's or otherwise but at least acknowledge the fact that those are quality firearms.

 

[Zebo]

Revolvers can break too but yeah in general by eliminating feeding and extracting it's inherently more reliable. But I've never seen any controlled testing to make me shoot a S&W revolver. Fine weapons though. Keep in mind there are tests of Glocks shooting 30,000 rounds in salt mud wet without fail. Basically I've never been worried about fail with a auto loader. I have had FTF when extractor or spring went bad/worn...something you need to keep eye on. 99% of shooters will never experience this because they don't shoot enough.

 

[boomerang]

Maybe we need a sub forum for this???

I highly doubt that will happen here. But I do think it's a great suggestion.

 

[irishScott]

Scott You just don't get it all other pistols are commoditized and take short cuts to fire just fine. Sig does not. You ever heard expression you get what you pay for? You think it's an accident Sigs cost $1000+ and the big name plastic pistols are $500? I would not buy a $500 Sig either they make junk to compete in that range as well.

To start, I think you need to get better informed about your chosen brand. There are plenty of sigs that are sub $1000 (usually $700+) that are extremely high quality.

Second, I fail to see how any of what you mentioned makes other brands "trash". It's not your assertion that Sigs are an A-grade brand I disagree with, it's your assertion that all others are C-grade and lower that you defend this point with all the tenacity of an Apple fanboi.

If you consider a Glock, Beretta, Smith and Wesson, Springfield, H&K, CZ, Kel-Tec, Walther, or other mainstream brand firearm to be "junk" you better have the data points to back it up. I'm talking failures to fire, accuracy, ergos that affect the function and fireability of the weapon, weight, carryability, all the important stuff that makes a weapon a good weapon.

Yes, if you shell out for a Sig you're probably going to get a top-notch gun across the board. If you shell out for one of the non-luxury brands, you can get almost negligibly close to Sig quality in terms of the factors that count for significantly less $$$.

 

[Zebo]

I'd say at least 25 if not 50% of seasoned gun owners call it a clip. No one cares, everyone knows exactly what you are talking about, and the OP did not ask for criticism or nitpicky bull shit, he asked for suggestions on quality guns.




It's good to see you're not just a sig whore you're an "anything which cost better is better" whore.



Not at all. I have never seen anyone else on this forum ever say a Glock or a Springfield is trash. I have seen people prefer Sig's or otherwise but at least acknowledge the fact that those are quality firearms.

I've owned XD45 and still have FNP45. Timex watches compared to omega in sig.

 

[Vic Vega]

I'd say at least 25 if not 50% of seasoned gun owners call it a clip. No one cares, everyone knows exactly what you are talking about, and the OP did not ask for criticism or nitpicky bull shit, he asked for suggestions on quality guns.

He was not nitpicked or criticized. Go back and read the comment again if you need to. I think you just want to argue and be on the defensive over nothing really.

There is nothing wrong with using the correct terminology, even if 25-50% of people (your made up numbers) don't. The passing of knowledge should not be looked down on.

 

[irishScott]

People get too wrapped up in technology. A revolver's more than enough for EVERY use, whether home, police, or military. If you need more than 6 shots, you have the wrong weapon for the job.

Maybe maybe not. We could armchair situations all night.

And if the revolver's enough for every use, I guess that explains why the military and almost every law enforcement agency has switched to autos for their service guns.

And if you think that a soldier on the front line only needs 6 shots in his sidearm and if not he's doing it wrong... yeah I don't really know what to say to that.

 

[Zebo]

To start, I think you need to get better informed about your chosen brand. There are plenty of sigs that are sub $1000 (usually $700+) that are extremely high quality.

Second, I fail to see how any of what you mentioned makes other brands "trash". It's not your assertion that Sigs are the an A-grade brand I disagree with, it's your assertion that all others are C-grade and lower that you defend with all the tenacity of an Apple fanboi.

If you consider a Glock, Beretta, Smith and Wesson, Springfield, H&K, CZ, Kel-Tec, Walther, or other mainstream brand firearm to be "junk" you better have the data points to back it up. I'm talking failures to fire, accuracy, ergos that affect the function and fireability of the weapon, weight, carryability, all the important stuff that makes a weapon a good weapon.

Yes, if you shell out for a Sig you're probably going to get a top-notch gun across the board. If you shell out for one of the non-luxury brands, you can get almost negligibly close to Sig quality in terms of the factors that count for significantly less $$$.

Never made a comment about reliability. A Amscor or hipoint is reliable or they would out of business. That's what you should have bought if you don't care about fit finish noise slop options ergos trigger balance resale etc that make sig the finest firearm made. You'da saved another $250.

 

[lxskllr]

And if the revolver's enough for every use, I guess that explains why the military and almost every law enforcement agency has switched to autos for their service guns.

And if you think that a soldier on the front line only needs 6 shots in his sidearm and if not he's doing it wrong... yeah I don't really know what to say to that.

Where's the rifle or shotgun? A handgun is just a notch over your knife for effective use. It's for very close encounters in tight areas, and it's portable. Cops carry them because they seldom need a weapon, and portability is king. The military carries them "just in case". They're seldom appropriate to the job.

Edit:
Military is the one group that /may/ have use for a quick reloading pistol. They actually might be repelling Chinese hordes, and even a worthless handgun beats a blank when that's all you have.

 

[olds]

Home defense = shotgun.
Plinking = handgun.

 

[irishScott]

Never made a comment about reliability. A Amscor or hipoint is reliable or they would out of business. That's what you should have bought if you don't care about fit finish noise slop options ergos trigger balance resale etc that make sig the finest firearm made. You'da saved another $250.

Actually from what I've read Hipoints have one of the spottiest track records on the planet for reliability and doubly so for durability. They're reliable enough to get people to buy them, and they're cheap. Beyond that they don't have much going for them, and I sure as hell wouldn't trust my life to one unless I'd extensively tested it myself. Never heard of Armscor until now, so won't comment.

And for that matter, all you seem to know about is fit-and-finish if you think that everything less than a Sig is on par with Hipoint.

 

[Zebo]

Another weapon to check out is the H&K P7's coming in used @ A grade from Germany/Switzerland. Fine firearm easy A. Very accurate 9mm as barrel is fixed up there with 1911's. H&K stopped making them because Americans to too cheap and they cost a lot to make but today you can get what used to be a $1500 gun at CDNN for $500!

Get one and I guarantee you make $500 in couple years once they disappear if you chose to resell..

 

[HybridSquirrel]

I plan on buying a handgun in the next 2-3 months and am wondering what I should be looking for. I know some of the big names like S&W, Glock, Ruger, Baretta, & Colt. What should I look at first?

This will be my first gun.

Looking at 9mm, .40, or .45
Clip based / non revolver
Under $1000
Comfortable, possible to be used for home protection, and will not cost $100 every time I want to go burn a couple of clips at a piece of paper.

Hell for under 1000 get a Sig or H&K even a Kimber. Just pick up your casing you leave at the crime scene =D.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Clip/Magazine...who gives a rat's ass.

Next person who brings it up, Ima pop a cap in they ass.

 

[irishScott]

Where's the rifle or shotgun? A handgun is just a notch over your knife for effective use. It's for very close encounters in tight areas, and it's portable. Cops carry them because they seldom need a weapon, and portability is king. The military carries them "just in case". They're seldom appropriate to the job.

Edit:
Military is the one group that /may/ have use for a quick reloading pistol. They actually might be repelling Chinese hordes, and even a worthless handgun beats a blank when that's all you have.

lol wut? You trolling?

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, let's see. Good solid handgun can reach out and touch something accurately at 30 yards at the range with training. Take away half of that under stress, 15 yards range. For the sake of argument, take over half of that away just to be safe. 7 yards effective kill zone. My knife (assuming combat knife) has an effective range of arms length + 6" or so, and requires martial skill and luck to get through my opponent's defense.

Yeah... handguns just one notch over the knife. Riiiiiight....

Yes handguns are a backup to the primary weapon for the military, but they are far and above the knife in terms of effectiveness. If you think otherwise, you are welcome to close to within 10 feet and charge me with a knife, while I have a gun pointed at you. We'll see who wins.

 

[HybridSquirrel]

Clip/Magazine...who gives a rat's ass.

Next person who brings it up, Ima pop a cap in they ass.

GUN LINGO IS SRSBIZNESS. dont you dare mix up the terminology again!

 

[lxskllr]

lol wut? You trolling?

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, let's see. Good solid handgun can reach out and touch something accurately at 30 yards at the range with training. Take away half of that under stress, 15 yards range. For the sake of argument, take over half of that away just to be safe. 7 yards effective kill zone. My knife (assuming combat knife) has an effective range of arms length + 6" or so, and requires martial skill and luck to get through my opponent's defense.

Yeah... handguns just one notch over the knife. Riiiiiight....

Yes handguns are a backup to the primary weapon for the military, but they are far and above the knife in terms of effectiveness. If you think otherwise, you are welcome to close to within 10 feet and charge me with a knife, while I have a gun pointed at you. We'll see who wins.

I'm talking about professional use. A knife is worthless, and a handgun pretty much is too. The military's rich though, so even highly marginal use items get happily purchased. This is all getting away from my primary point, which is no one needs more than 6 shots. Which defensive scenario requires 9+ shots? Maybe a one in million, but that hardly relegates the revolver to being obsolete. If you expect more than 3 armed people to be coming after you, and engage in an extended gun battle, you're really living life wrong ;^)

 

[KDOG]

Lots of good info here so I'll throw my 2 cents worth in here too...

In *MY* view you got to have a weapon that you can HIT THE TARGET WITH. You gotta be comfortable with the weapon. DON'T listen to the macho wannabe tough guy bullshitters who tell ya that you got to have to largest caliber available to have a real gun. These fools act like 9mm bounce off bad guys chest or something.... Trust me you'll run into those. You have to try out different rounds and styles of guns to determine which one you can comfortably put ROUNDS ON TARGET. A bigger caliber round is WORTHLESS if the muzzle is all over the place cuz you can't keep it steady. Someone recommend the Sig P226 and the Sprinfield XD 9s'. I would give them a serious look. Remember the smaller the gun per any given caliber, the more recoil its going to have so weigh that "ratio" carefully.

I would also get some good training. Find a *VERY* reputable dealer/range and try out a variety of weapons and when you finally settle on one you are comfortable with, train, train again and TRAIN SOME MORE. Good luck.

Its funny this subject came up though, I have my Firearms Purchaser Renewal form sitting right here, just gotta turn it in....

 

[HybridSquirrel]

I'm talking about professional use. A knife is worthless, and a handgun pretty much is too. The military's rich though, so even highly marginal use items get happily purchased. This is all getting away from my primary point, which is no one needs more than 6 shots. Which defensive scenario requires 9+ shots? Maybe a one in million, but that hardly relegates the revolver to being obsolete. If you expect more than 3 armed people to be coming after you, and engage in an extended gun battle, you're really living life wrong ;^)

Which defense scenario are you going to get 100% of those 6 shots on target?

 

[JulesMaximus]

lol wut? You trolling?

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, let's see. Good solid handgun can reach out and touch something accurately at 30 yards at the range with training. Take away half of that under stress, 15 yards range. For the sake of argument, take over half of that away just to be safe. 7 yards effective kill zone. My knife (assuming combat knife) has an effective range of arms length + 6" or so, and requires martial skill and luck to get through my opponent's defense.

Yeah... handguns just one notch over the knife. Riiiiiight....

Yes handguns are a backup to the primary weapon for the military, but they are far and above the knife in terms of effectiveness. If you think otherwise, you are welcome to close to within 10 feet and charge me with a knife, while I have a gun pointed at you. We'll see who wins.

I like to put the target out about 10 feet and just draw and empty an entire clip into the target as fast as possible. I call this, "Intruder at the foot of the bed" training...and I almost never get a flier.

 

[Zebo]

Fine a good range. rent as many guns as you can afford. Fire 50rds ea. You'll choose sig or a 1911 in the end but it's worth the experience.

 

[lxskllr]

Which defense scenario are you going to get 100% of those 6 shots on target?

I allowed 2 shots per target, and the fact is this isn't the movies. You're not likely to be gun fighting in the street. As soon as you pull a weapon the aggressor will probably just take off since you're no longer a soft target. If there's more than one aggressor, it's unlikely all will stick around.

 

[nick1985]

XD-9 or XD-40

 

[KDOG]

Another thing in all seriousness, If you find you aren't comfortable with handguns then don't get one.