Handguns - Suggestions or tips

[HybridSquirrel]

I allowed 2 shots per target, and the fact is this isn't the movies. You're not likely to be gun fighting in the street. As soon as you pull a weapon the aggressor will probably just take off since you're no longer a soft target. If there's more than one aggressor, it's unlikely all will stick around.

That still doesn't mean you will land all shots 100% because you can do it in practice. And you can't also assume the bg wil run away, that is another misconception people have. Some might, some might not, depends how motivated they were, and how motivated they know youare. You might puss out and not shoot at them.

edit: hasnt this been discussed recently on these forums?

 

[Zebo]

I'm talking about professional use. A knife is worthless, and a handgun pretty much is too. The military's rich though, so even highly marginal use items get happily purchased. This is all getting away from my primary point, which is no one needs more than 6 shots. Which defensive scenario requires 9+ shots? Maybe a one in million, but that hardly relegates the revolver to being obsolete. If you expect more than 3 armed people to be coming after you, and engage in an extended gun battle, you're really living life wrong ;^)

Good points. But shooting is more than self defense. I don't use my ccw save when muzzle hunting just in case so animal does not suffer but like to ease of reloading with 12 mags at range, mass, trigger, slim profile, less recoil, of an auto loader. Sure 99% of self defense situations is only 1-3 shots but there are plenty of good reasons besides gang land warfare to get into an auto loader.

 

[alkemyst]

Zebo's a Sig whore, just let him be.

Sigs are awesome, but if you put H&K at a C level and say "there are no Bs" because of the little perks that don't really matter when it comes to function or feel of the weapon, you're just being a fanboy.

To use his own car analogy, he basically thinks if it doesn't have leather seats, seat warmers and TVs in the headrests, it's "trash." 🙄

I like sigs, but I wouldn't put them as my top choice. I don't like the feel of Glocks at all.

I did like a .45 that was the one the special ops/forces carry...I can't remember the name off the top of my head now, it was an expensive gun. The sharkskin type grip was great in my hand.

My brothers .380 p232 sig is one of the best feeling, but it doesn't have much of an impact.

 

[Phanuel]

If you think otherwise, you are welcome to close to within 10 feet and charge me with a knife, while I have a gun pointed at you. We'll see who wins. 🙂

Is it a full size k-bar equivalent knife I'm wielding?

I'll win, everytime at 10 feet. Sure you might hit me, but chances of it being a critical wound area in time to shut me down before I close the gap and can slice you up with the blade? Pretty much none.

 

[lxskllr]

Good points. But shooting is more than self defense. I don't use my ccw save when muzzle hunting just in case so animal does not suffer but like to ease of reloading with 12 mags at range, mass, trigger, slim profile, less recoil, of an auto loader. Sure 99% of self defense situations is only 1-3 shots but there are plenty of good reasons besides gang land warfare to get into an auto loader.

Sure, my main complaint was the outright dismissal of revolvers. They may not be sleek and sexy, but they're still highly functional, and attractive in their own way. They also get points for almost erm... bulletproof reliability :^D

 

[Zebo]

Sure, my main complaint was the outright dismissal of revolvers. They may not be sleek and sexy, but they're still highly functional, and attractive in their own way. They also get points for almost erm... bulletproof reliability :^D

LOL bad just bad..

No doubt about reliably. I'll never dis some of those fine S&Ws. But autos have more going for them almost everywhere else.

 

[irishScott]

Is it a full size k-bar equivalent knife I'm wielding?

I'll win, everytime at 10 feet. Sure you might hit me, but chances of it being a critical wound area in time to shut me down before I close the gap and can slice you up with the blade? Pretty much none.

Yes, because I'm just going to stand there and let you kill me. I'm going to be moving, backpedaling, otherwise putting as much distance between you and me as possible while firing. And worst case scenario actively blocking your knife (I have some training in this area).

Try knife fighting with multiple 9mm+ hollowpoints lodged inside your torso cutting you up as you move. You'd have to be on some good shit to not at least be partially incapacitated by pain.

 

[irishScott]

Sure, my main complaint was the outright dismissal of revolvers. They may not be sleek and sexy, but they're still highly functional, and attractive in their own way. They also get points for almost erm... bulletproof reliability :^D

I didn't dismiss them, and I said they could be effective enough for home defense. My point was that pistols are, aside from reliability and max muzzle velocity, pretty much all-around equivalent or superior. Even discounting the other advantages, the pistol is at the very least easier to carry.

 

[KDOG]

All this handgun talk motivated me to fire up my long lost XDTalk forum account. I hadn't logged in there since April of "07! Dang....

 

[Phanuel]

Yes, because I'm just going to stand there and let you kill me. I'm going to be moving, backpedaling, otherwise putting as much distance between you and me as possible while firing. And worst case scenario actively blocking your knife (I have some training in this area).

You have 100% accuracy while moving and dodging?

And blocking with what? You have only a gun, and at that point if you're blocking with the gun, you've lost.

Try knife fighting with multiple 9mm+ hollowpoints lodged inside your torso cutting you up as you move. You'd have to be on some good shit to not at least be partially incapacitated by pain.

Again, 10 feet, you'll get 1, maybe 2 somewhat aimed (point shooting) shots off in that time span. And adrenaline is a hell of a drug if you've never been injured in a sport to experience it.


Look, I own at least one handgun (among other things I'd probably rather clear my house with, AR15) but I'm under no pretenses that if a bad guy gets into 5 yards or so with a knife and isn't retreating that my outcome is rather poor at that point.

 

[Nintendesert]

If the guy isn't comfortable using a weapon his odds of using it effectively against a home intruder are pretty close to 0. He might get lucky and hit the intruder but he'd probably have better luck using a baseball bat.

That being said, unless the intruder has a gun too, the odds of him wanting to engage an armed home owner are even lower and he's most likely to run away. Even a few non effective shots directed at you are enough to trigger all those flight and fight responses.

 

[irishScott]

You have 100% accuracy while moving and dodging?

And blocking with what? You have only a gun, and at that point if you're blocking with the gun, you've lost.



Again, 10 feet, you'll get 1, maybe 2 somewhat aimed (point shooting) shots off in that time span. And adrenaline is a hell of a drug if you've never been injured in a sport to experience it.


Look, I own at least one handgun (among other things I'd probably rather clear my house with, AR15) but I'm under no pretenses that if a bad guy gets into 5 yards or so with a knife and isn't retreating that my outcome is rather poor at that point.

No, if I'm blocking with the gun it means I'm going hand-to-hand, which is risky as hell but aided by the fact that I've got some training and you'll have 2 hollowpoints swimming around. And I don't have to block the knife blade directly, which if you had any h2h combat training you'd know. Assuming you're unskilled (ie: the average thug) my training would probably work pretty well.

Point is, I can hit you with a lethal wound from 10'+ away. You have to get within ~3.5' and through my own defense to lethally wound me. So long as I keep you outside your kill zone, I have the advantage.

Edit: And just to armchair, with a good single action pistol I would get off more than 2 shots. And the closer you get, the less I have to aim. I can also run and dodge without firing while those hollowpoints do their work. And a full-sized gun is a decent hand-club.

 

[spidey07]

I'm talking about professional use. A knife is worthless, and a handgun pretty much is too. The military's rich though, so even highly marginal use items get happily purchased. This is all getting away from my primary point, which is no one needs more than 6 shots. Which defensive scenario requires 9+ shots? Maybe a one in million, but that hardly relegates the revolver to being obsolete. If you expect more than 3 armed people to be coming after you, and engage in an extended gun battle, you're really living life wrong ;^)

I seriously hope your kidding. Most defensive use of a hand gun most of the bullets don't hit their target. Under stress it's actually difficult to get most of them center mass. Paper doesn't move and doesn't fight back, people do.

 

[alkemyst]

I seriously hope your kidding. Most defensive use of a hand gun most of the bullets don't hit their target. Under stress it's actually difficult to get most of them center mass. Paper doesn't move and doesn't fight back, people do.

Most bodyguards out there would rather face a gun than a knife up close. Most people aren't mugged from across the street or even more than an arm's distance.

 

[irishScott]

Most bodyguards out there would rather face a gun than a knife up close. Most people aren't mugged from across the street or even more than an arm's distance.

Which is where situational awareness comes in. If someone mugs you with a knife drawn inside arm's length, doesn't matter what you're carrying. Have fun getting to it with a knife at your throat.

 

[alkemyst]

also most aren't going to continue fighting with those 2 hollowpoints in them already.

 

[Zebo]

I seriously hope your kidding. Most defensive use of a hand gun most of the bullets don't hit their target. Under stress it's actually difficult to get most of them center mass. Paper doesn't move and doesn't fight back, people do.

Then we go back to Olds suggestion about 12 pump full of #1 buck🙂 One shot one kill. Hard to live with 16 38 special slugs in ya. Plus people were born knowing what the uniquely menacing sound of chambering a shell sounds like and GTFO on audibles.:biggrin:

Seriously I'm a good shot can shoot apples at 25 yards with pistol but the only reason to own one is to fight my way to shotgun or rifle.

 

[alkemyst]

A bit hard to carry one of those around outside one's home.

 

[spidey07]

Then we go back to Olds suggestion about 12 pump full of #1 buck🙂 One shot one kill. Hard to live with 16 38 special slugs in ya. Plus people were born knowing what the uniquely menacing sound of chambering a shell sounds like and GTFO on audibles.:biggrin:

Don't you start! I'm not biting.

And there's already a shell chambered, ready to fire, safety on, next to the bed. If they can hear the super quiet click of the safety they're way too close anyway.

 

[pontifex]

Scott You just don't get it all other pistols are commoditized and take short cuts to fire just fine. Sig does not. You ever heard expression you get what you pay for? You think it's an accident Sigs cost $1000+ and the big name plastic pistols are $500? I would not buy a $500 Sig either they make junk to compete in that range as well.

A sig 226, which you are suggesting he buy, is less than $1000 you can get them between $7-800 generally.

 

[pontifex]

They can be effective enough for home defense I suppose, but beyond that IMHO I see the revolver as obsolete unless you need absolute reliability. Even for home defense I'd only settle for a 6-8 shot handgun if I could reload it quickly, and to get anywhere close to pistol speed of reload is nigh impossible on a revolver even with extensive training.

Another point to note is that you will go through ammo faster at the range with a revolver. Lot easier than to hand-load a cylinder as opposed to a spring-loaded mag.

Not to knock revolvers, they are fun to shoot, are impossible to jam and a good one will last forever, but their time is coming to a close in terms of practical use.

your life doesn't require absolute reliability? If it doesn't then i'm not sure what would?

I can blow through ammo in a semi-auto way faster than a revolver. most people have more than 1 mag and its much easier to switch out mags then reload a revolver. I can reload a mag pretty quickly too.

I don't see how the revolver is becoming obsolete. if it was, they wouldn't be making new ones and innovating them, like the LCR and the Bodyguard.

 

[Zebo]

A sig 226, which you are suggesting he buy, is less than $1000 you can get them between $7-800 generally.

I have not checked prices in awhile. But i just did pay $1150 for a 220 stainless carry version with rosewood grips. My 226 was over $1000. Actually set which came with 556 all desert digital was $3200 I think. Generally you will pay $1000 for a decent sig not bare bones.

My first sig a 220 back in 1992 was only $600!

 

[pontifex]

i'm not even going to bother to argue with a troll any more.

 

[Zebo]

i'm not even going to bother to argue with a troll any more.

Troll is yapping about less than a $1000 to try and acting like you;re one upping someone when half the 226s fall above $1000. Average 226 is a $1000.

 

[nick1985]

Troll is yapping about less than a $1000 to try and acting like you;re one upping someone when half the 226s fall above $1000. Average 226 is a $1000.

aimsurplus.com had quality used p226's for 400-500