Hamas and Fatah agree to reunite.

[Lemon law]

In what I consider rather major news, an Egyptian brokered deal reconciles and reunites the Palestinian people in Gaza and the West bank under one future leadership with elections slated in eight months. And largely catches everyone by surprise.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...oric-palestinian-reconciliation-deal-1.358445

Of course the one big thing that is unsaid, will this new reunified Palestinian Government renounce the use of violence or not? Since that is likely to be question one, I expect we shall soon get an answer. And I am somewhat surprised that no such answer was in the announcement.

 

[jonks]

That's awesome! I saw them in '94 at the Palladium and it was off the chain yo! Man, I hope they go on tour and play their greatest hits.


Ed: last line removed at mod's request though I dispute the necessity. As it's quoted below I can't do anything about that.

 

[Kadarin]

That's awesome! I saw them in '94 at the Palladium and it was off the chain yo! Man, I hope they go on tour and play their greatest hits. Shit, I'd kill a jew for tickets to that show.

/thread

 

[Freshgeardude]

YALLT


while this may seem like good news, it is far from it.

if the new palestinian government with hamas doesn't follow the three rules of the Quartet, it wont be accepted by the US, the Quartet, and most importantly Israel.

Those 3 being:
-Renounce violence
-recognizing Israel
-Accepting previous Israel-Palestinian agreements

Seeing that in the charter for hamas it calls for violence and to never negotiate with israel, i dont see this turning out well

also, part of the agreement between fatah and hamas stated they will release each others prisoners.

i dont see israel being too happy to see a bunch of hamas operatives being released. I do imagine israel will get in the middle of that and possibly sweep up those hamas prisoners.

also, from that link

"We are proud that we now possess the national will to end our divisions so we can end the occupation of Palestine ... the last occupation in history."
Abu Marzouk added: "Our rift gave the occupation a chance. Today we turn a new page."

oh yes! Israel is definitly happy about that.

I highly doubt hamas is going to renounce violence against israel.

and if so,

Israel, the U.S. and the EU consider Hamas a terror group because of its rocket attacks and suicide bombings aimed at Israeli civilians.


The U.S. administration, the largest single donor to the Palestinians, withheld funds when Hamas was a part of a short-lived Palestinian unity government. The Palestinian Authority is heavily reliant on foreign aid and forgoing the funds could easily spark its own crisis.

let see how long the PA is going to last without US money

 

[Fear No Evil]

We now officially have more Israel threads than threads on the U.S. Congrats!

 

[JEDIYoda]

Those 3 being:
-Renounce violence
-recognizing Israel
-Accepting previous Israel-Palestinian agreements

They cannot renounce violence mainly because the Hamas Charter is very clear when it talks about the violence against Israel and never negotiating with Israel......
People should read the charter sometimes and ask one question -- http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm
If the palestinians truly want a state of their own why did they elect Hamas knowing that Hamas will never negotiate with the Jews??

 

[lupi]

That's awesome! I saw them in '94 at the Palladium and it was off the chain yo! Man, I hope they go on tour and play their greatest hits. Shit, I'd kill a jew for tickets to that show.

And it goes over the fences!

 

[wuliheron]

That's awesome! I saw them in '94 at the Palladium and it was off the chain yo! Man, I hope they go on tour and play their greatest hits. Shit, I'd kill a jew for tickets to that show.

ROFLMAO!

 

[Lemon law]

Earth to JediY, under any reunification agreement, the Hamas charter is no longer the issue.
The new policies of the Palestinian unification government is the issue.

As for me, I think I will wait to see them defined before rushing off to judgment.

Of course the other thing to mention is that its the reaction of the rest of the world and not just Israel that matters. But at least the Palestinian people will now have a united voice, as Israel loses the use of the argument of who speaks for the Palestinians.

And at the rate Netanyuhu is going, we also have to ask, will Netanyuhu be still speaking for Israel or will his government soon fall?

 

[D1gger]

This cannot end well. Hamas are not a political organization, they are an acknowledged and widely recognized terrorist organization. Unless they are willing to put down their arms and tear up their charter, they will not be a part of any negotiated agreement with Israel.

 

[JEDIYoda]

In what I consider rather major news, an Egyptian brokered deal reconciles and reunites the Palestinian people in Gaza and the West bank under one future leadership with elections slated in eight months. And largely catches everyone by surprise.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...-deal-1.358445

Of course the one big thing that is unsaid, will this new reunified Palestinian Government renounce the use of violence or not? Since that is likely to be question one, I expect we shall soon get an answer. And I am somewhat surprised that no such answer was in the announcement.

Things are not as rosy as lemon would have you believe--

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has warned that reconciliation between the Palestinian Authority and Hamas could spell the end of the peace process. "You can't have peace with both Israel and Hamas," Netanyahu said, in remarks directed at Abbas. "Choose peace with Israel."

Israel, the U.S. and the EU consider Hamas a terror group because of its rocket attacks and suicide bombings aimed at Israeli civilians.

The U.S. administration, the largest single donor to the Palestinians, withheld funds when Hamas was a part of a short-lived Palestinian unity government. The Palestinian Authority is heavily reliant on foreign aid and forgoing the funds could easily spark its own crisis.

Since the bloody coup in 2007, the Palestinians have been divided between rival governments in the West Bank and Gaza, the two territories they hope to turn into an independent state.

With peace talks stalled since September, Abbas has begun an effort to win international recognition of Palestine, with or without an agreement with Israel. That effort is to culminate at the United Nations in September.

Palestinian officials have acknowledged the need solve their differences with Hamas before they can go to the United Nations. Abbas has made repeated overtures toward Hamas in recent months - including an offer to visit Gaza to lay the groundwork for national elections.

Hamas leaders had said they want a full power-sharing deal before meeting with the Palestinian president - including a deal on how to divide security responsibilities.

Hamas had also demanded further gestures from Abbas before considering unity, such as a release of hundreds of Hamas prisoners locked up in the West Bank, re-opening closed Hamas charities and the removal of a ban on Hamas activities in the West Bank.

The Palestinians receive more than $470 million a year in direct financial assistance from the U.S. The U.S. hasn't said what it will do if Hamas returns to power in the West Bank, but it will likely cut off the funds unless Hamas agrees to renounce violence and recognize Israel. Hamas has given no indication it is prepared to do either.

 

[RedChief]

One man, one vote, one time.

Thats how democracy is to arabs/palestinians.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Earth to JediY, under any reunification agreement, the Hamas charter is no longer the issue.-- I am sorry to inform you nut as long as Hamas is involved the charter is a huge issue!! Did you even bother to read the link to the article......
The article says otherwise...

The new policies of the Palestinian unification government is the issue. -- you really did not read the link to that article did you...if you did you did not comprehend very well...

As for me, I think I will wait to see them defined before rushing off to judgment. -- as the aticle states and I quote -- The Palestinians receive more than $470 million a year in direct financial assistance from the U.S. The U.S. hasn't said what it will do if Hamas returns to power in the West Bank, but it will likely cut off the funds unless Hamas agrees to renounce violence and recognize Israel. Hamas has given no indication it is prepared to do either.

Of course the other thing to mention is that its the reaction of the rest of the world and not just Israel that matters. But at least the Palestinian people will now have a united voice, as Israel loses the use of the argument of who speaks for the Palestinians. -- as long as hamas is involved the argument remains valid...unless hamas tears up the charter and recognizes Israel!!

And at the rate Netanyuhu is going, we also have to ask, will Netanyuhu be still speaking for Israel or will his government soon fall?-- it does not matter at all who is speaking for israel they will not over look the Hamas charter or Hamas...

 

[Lemon law]

What a ridiculous JEDIY position, even the USA talked to the North Vietnamese in Vietnam.
And while Reagan swore he would never negotiate with terrorists, he later had to admit on national Television that he was making secret deals with Iran.

Then it gets doubly laughable when Netanyuhu runs to Abbas in the West Bank, and says we were ready to make peace deals with the West Bank, but now can't deal deal if you reunify with Hamas, when Israel never treated the West Bank any better than it treated Gaza.

If the New reunified Palestinian Government renounces violence, and follows up by greatly reducing anti-Israeli terrorism, its panic time for only Netanyuhu and other Israeli extremists.

Times change, people change, and prior to 1948 illegal Zionist terrorists were the greatest threat to the mid-east region.

 

[Fern]

See the below:

Hamas leaders had said they want a full power-sharing deal before meeting with the Palestinian president - including a deal on how to divide security responsibilities.

Hamas had also demanded further gestures from Abbas before considering unity, such as a release of hundreds of Hamas prisoners locked up in the West Bank, re-opening closed Hamas charities and the removal of a ban on Hamas activities in the West Bank.

So do they have a deal or not?

The begining of the article says so, but the above paragraphs at the end leads me to believe the deal is not yet done.

The kind of things discussed above, e.g. "full power sharing", strike me as pretty significant and as possible stumbling blocks in actually concluding a deal.

Fern

 

[nick1985]

Long Live Hamas!!!

 

[Fear No Evil]

Long Live Hamas!!!

Indeed!

 

[Freshgeardude]

Then it gets doubly laughable when Netanyuhu runs to Abbas in the West Bank, and says we were ready to make peace deals with the West Bank, but now can't deal deal if you reunify with Hamas, when Israel never treated the West Bank any better than it treated Gaza.

what a load of crap. the west bank doesnt launch missiles into israel, so israel doesnt isolate its economy, it doesnt make a blockade or have an air blockade either.

also, there are hundreds, if not thousands of arabs living in the west bank that travel into israel every day for work.

if you want to have an article that PROVES beyond resonable doubt that gaza= west bank in the form of treatment by israel, go for it.

put up or shut up.

If the New reunified Palestinian Government renounces violence, and follows up by greatly reducing anti-Israeli terrorism, its panic time for only Netanyuhu and other Israeli extremists.

its never going to happen. Israel already stated that any government which includes hamas is not going to be negotiated with.

Times change, people change, and prior to 1948 illegal Zionist terrorists were the greatest threat to the mid-east region.


wait... you honestly believe the middle east was peaceful until the jews showed up?

lmao

:thumbsdown:

 

[Lemon law]

Well all I can say, is that surprise surprise, a Gaza West bank reunification is a new development that changes current classic conventional mid-east assumptions. Once again, at every move, the mid-east chess board changes.

As for various pro Israeli fan clubbers who seem to say, this new development can only benefit Israel, I can only say, its far too soon to rush to any judgment.

Its an event that happened just today, get over it, because only the future matters.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Well all I can say, is that surprise surprise, a Gaza West bank reunification is a new development that changes current classic conventional mid-east assumptions. Once again, at every move, the mid-east chess board changes.

As for various pro Israeli fan clubbers who seem to say, this new development can only benefit Israel, I can only say, its far too soon to rush to any judgment.

Its an event that happened just today, get over it, because only the future matters.

no one that supports israel on the forum has stated this new development can only benefit israel, this is a disaster


the last thing israel wants is a complete breakdown of negotiations with the PA and push back the peace talks another decade until hamas dissolves away from the political spectrum.



you are the one lauding on and on about how great this is for the Palestinians and how it will back israel into an economic embargo.

 

[Freshgeardude]

If the New reunified Palestinian Government renounces violence, and follows up by greatly reducing anti-Israeli terrorism, its panic time for only Netanyuhu and other Israeli extremists.

the problem with this assumtion in my opinion goes as followed:

Israel has always wanted peace with its neighbors, they even want it today (even if you dont think so)

but after 62 years of

from 48 to 67- "minor" clashes, nothing significant

67- the point where the arab nations realize they couldnt take israel out

67- 73

73- truely the last attempt to get rid of israel

73- 2000- years of minor clashes, some suicide bombing, rocket attacks, etc

2000-present- lebanon war, operation cast lead, lots of suicide bombs and rocket attacks.


(the above was quickly written)

israelis are sick and tired of dealing with the palestinians.

they (palestianis) have been acting like idiots since 1948 when they could have announced their own state, instead they let egypt and jordan take over their land, without bickering, but when israel took over that land, they complained.


now, they "seem" ready for statehood, but history has shown they just play games ("Palestinian papers")


so now, the israelis who have been trying for peace for 62 years dont want to try anymore, hence the magically coined term "settlers" who are sick of the BS the palestinians have played.



I cant blame them. the Jordan valley is hugely fertile land. Israel, who took control of the land in 1967, has been hugely waiting for the opportunity to make peace or use the land.

its like sitting on an oil field worth billions of dollars and not tapping into it because you are offending the people that live over it, even though those people themselves want the oil but wont drill for it.



so in summation, I dont see Israel really expecting that this new government will renounce violence, and completely end all anti-israel terrorism.

Hamas clearly states in its charter to use violence against israel and to never negotiate with them. why would they all of a sudden change?

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

In what I consider rather major news, an Egyptian brokered deal reconciles and reunites the Palestinian people in Gaza and the West bank under one future leadership with elections slated in eight months. And largely catches everyone by surprise.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...oric-palestinian-reconciliation-deal-1.358445

Of course the one big thing that is unsaid, will this new reunified Palestinian Government renounce the use of violence or not? Since that is likely to be question one, I expect we shall soon get an answer. And I am somewhat surprised that no such answer was in the announcement.

Wtf? How dumb are you? Fatah and Hamas are terrorist organizations.

 

[JSt0rm]

That's awesome! I saw them in '94 at the Palladium and it was off the chain yo! Man, I hope they go on tour and play their greatest hits. Shit, I'd kill a jew for tickets to that show.

hahahaha

 

[Lemon law]

The FGD Israeli history goes as follows in a direct quote.

"the problem with this assumtion in my opinion goes as followed:

Israel has always wanted peace with its neighbors, they even want it today (even if you dont think so)

but after 62 years of

from 48 to 67- "minor" clashes, nothing significant

67- the point where the arab nations realize they couldnt take israel out

67- 73

73- truely the last attempt to get rid of israel

73- 2000- years of minor clashes, some suicide bombing, rocket attacks, etc

2000-present- lebanon war, operation cast lead, lots of suicide bombs and rocket attacks."

But two or three significant FGD omissions.

1. Between 1948 to 1949, Palestinians owned the bulk of the Land in Israel. By 1953, Israel in a series of Palestinian land thefts had swindled away all Palestinian land and had imprisoned all Palestinians in refugee camps. Until the Palestinians can again be made whole, Israel can never have any moral legitimacy.

2. We can debate all the day long on who caused the 1967&73 wars, but two cogent facts are basically not in dispute. (a) Israel gained significant land by right of no longer legitimate conquest. (b) By the end of 1973, it was apparent to all that Israeli could not be defeated by the combined might of all Arab armies.

3. Now we come back to that other original FGD contention, that "Israel has always wanted peace with its neighbors, they even want it today (even if you dont think so)"
But the problem with that FGD contention, is that early on, it was apparent to all after 1973, that the way to make the Palestinians whole, and secure a just peace, was to grant them the land Israel conquered in the 1967&73 wars.

Now here we are in 2011, and still Israeli refuses to give up those lands as the price of the peace Israeli claims it desires. As Israel talks and talks and settles settles on land it cannot ever own, and still Israel refuses to leave, says it wants a Palestinian State and then does nothing but act to torpedo it.

But now the world asks, in 2011, isn't time to force a final settlement?

So the real question to ask, is Israel running out of cards to play or not to prevent the formation of a Palestinians State by 9/2011.

 

[nick1985]

from 48 to 67- "minor" clashes, nothing significant

LOL!!!!

Those wars where several Arab nations ganged up on Israel were "minor clashes"?

HAHA, you really must be a member of Hamas. Are you a holocaust denier as well?