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Hacking Batman:AA to get ATI video cards AA functionality

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Schmide

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2002
5,367
284
126
Originally posted by: Ben90
Or use search? Cuz there are multiple threads about this; including my own.... the consensus is you cant do it
Then maybe we should have a thread to discuss it, stubborn to the end aren't ya?

Edit: I did the search and could only find a topic you started that you couldn't OC your 4890 as far as you would like. Point it out, post it up, or stop spreading FUD!
 

Wreckage

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
5,529
0
0
Originally posted by: solofly
Originally posted by: BFG10K
Another example of vendor-lock at it?s finest. :disgust:
Why don't you vote with your wallet rather than your mouth...;)
In other words, don't buy ATI cards until they start working with game developers.

Support companies that support games.
 

Schmide

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2002
5,367
284
126
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: solofly
Originally posted by: BFG10K
Another example of vendor-lock at it?s finest. :disgust:
Why don't you vote with your wallet rather than your mouth...;)
In other words, don't buy ATI cards until they start working with game developers.

Support companies that support games.
Or translated for the reality challenged, don't support companies that game the gamer with kickback eye-candy.
 

akugami

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2005
4,635
70
91
Originally posted by: Schmide
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: solofly
Originally posted by: BFG10K
Another example of vendor-lock at it?s finest. :disgust:
Why don't you vote with your wallet rather than your mouth...;)
In other words, don't buy ATI cards until they start working with game developers.

Support companies that support games.
Or translated for the reality challenged, don't support companies that game the gamer with kickback eye-candy.
You forgot to mention that contrary to what Wreckage says, ATI does work with game developers. This has been pointed out to Wreckage in previous threads.

They (unlike nVidia) don't work with developers to put in features and specifically lock them out from working with perfectly capable cards from any competitors. This type of behavior by nVidia actually hurts consumers in the long run. We've seen games that have an ATI splash screen meaning ATI worked closely with the developers but the games work well and are fully featured on both ATI and nVidia cards. There are no artificial lockouts on features as shown when nVidia works with a developer.

If someone really wants to promote one company vs another, ATI has had better value and IMHO has been far more pro-consumer in its recent business dealings and decisions than nVidia. Not that ATI hasn't done many things that would turn off consumers in the past. At best, they are no better than nVidia. It's one corporation vs another after all.

And if you really want to translate Wreckage's message, it's "Buy nVidia because I love nVidia and hate ATI/AMD."
 

MrK6

Diamond Member
Aug 9, 2004
4,458
3
81
Originally posted by: akugamiThey (unlike nVidia) don't work with developers to put in features and specifically lock them out from working with perfectly capable cards from any competitors. This type of behavior by nVidia actually hurts consumers in the long run. We've seen games that have an ATI splash screen meaning ATI worked closely with the developers but the games work well and are fully featured on both ATI and nVidia cards. There are no artificial lockouts on features as shown when nVidia works with a developer.
If someone really wants to promote one company vs another, ATI has had better value and IMHO has been far more pro-consumer in its recent business dealings and decisions than nVidia. Not that ATI hasn't done many things that would turn off consumers in the past. At best, they are no better than nVidia. It's one corporation vs another after all.
I agree, and I think you hit the nail on the head. The way ATI has been working to promote DX11, especially with Windows 7 just around the corner, I'm glad they have my dollar. Like always, I'll keep track and see how things unfold, but I like their business model and their business relations.

Originally posted by: akugamiYou forgot to mention that contrary to what Wreckage says, ATI does work with game developers. This has been pointed out to Wreckage in previous threads.

And if you really want to translate Wreckage's message, it's "Buy nVidia because I love nVidia and hate ATI/AMD."
Yeah, good thing is NVIDIA is taking such a PR beating right now you don't even need to post a rebuttal, it's already there :p.

 

evolucion8

Platinum Member
Jun 17, 2005
2,867
3
61
Originally posted by: akugami
You forgot to mention that contrary to what Wreckage says, ATI does work with game developers. This has been pointed out to Wreckage in previous threads.

They (unlike nVidia) don't work with developers to put in features and specifically lock them out from working with perfectly capable cards from any competitors. This type of behavior by nVidia actually hurts consumers in the long run. We've seen games that have an ATI splash screen meaning ATI worked closely with the developers but the games work well and are fully featured on both ATI and nVidia cards. There are no artificial lockouts on features as shown when nVidia works with a developer.

If someone really wants to promote one company vs another, ATI has had better value and IMHO has been far more pro-consumer in its recent business dealings and decisions than nVidia. Not that ATI hasn't done many things that would turn off consumers in the past. At best, they are no better than nVidia. It's one corporation vs another after all.

And if you really want to translate Wreckage's message, it's "Buy nVidia because I love nVidia and hate ATI/AMD."
I second that, look at this link and read the following conclusion;

http://www.hardocp.com/article...play_performance_iq/10

Developer Relations


Once again, we feel compelled to talk about developer relations with AMD and NVIDIA. In this case, however, the situation is reversed from our last evaluation of Cryostasis. In the short collection of splash screens in Demigod?s startup routine is a great big AMD logo, stating "The future is fusion." So, it seems that AMD was on top of this release for once.


On the first page of this article, we asked the question: Will NVIDIA video cards suffer for AMD?s involvement in Demigod?s development. No, they do not suffer. AMD?s video cards do outperform NVIDIA?s offerings consistently in Demigod, but it is nowhere near as one-sided as we saw in Cryostasis. This is a part of AMD that is not flexed enough. If Demigod is any indicator, it appears that GPU manufacturers can actually work with game developers to make their games actually run better, not just more exclusive.

So in plain english, TWIMTBP program makes the game to run more exclusively in nVidia hardware, handicapping the performance of ATi hardware like it first happened with Lost Planet and Deadspace which ran almost twice slower on the HD 4870 vs GTX 260+ when first launched, fortunately enough, ATi had made great strides in driver development and both games runs great on ATi hardware. Games developed under ATi's program are optimized to run efficiently by DirectX standards and to perform faster, regardless of the GPU used, that's a healthy developer relationship. We just need more involvement of ATi with developers.
 

Wreckage

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
5,529
0
0
Originally posted by: evolucion8


On the first page of this article, we asked the question: Will NVIDIA video cards suffer for AMD?s involvement in Demigod?s development. No, they do not suffer. AMD?s video cards do outperform NVIDIA?s offerings consistently in Demigod, but it is nowhere near as one-sided as we saw in Cryostasis. This is a part of AMD that is not flexed enough. If Demigod is any indicator, it appears that GPU manufacturers can actually work with game developers to make their games actually run better, not just more exclusive.
That's because NVIDIA also worked with the developer (note it has PhysX).

Besides AA works on ATI cards with Batman, so they are not "locked out". They just have to use a different method, because they did not work with developers to get it implemented.

You guys are trying really hard to turn bad news about ATI against NVIDIA and it's not working.
 

Schmide

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2002
5,367
284
126
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: evolucion8


On the first page of this article, we asked the question: Will NVIDIA video cards suffer for AMD?s involvement in Demigod?s development. No, they do not suffer. AMD?s video cards do outperform NVIDIA?s offerings consistently in Demigod, but it is nowhere near as one-sided as we saw in Cryostasis. This is a part of AMD that is not flexed enough. If Demigod is any indicator, it appears that GPU manufacturers can actually work with game developers to make their games actually run better, not just more exclusive.
That's because NVIDIA also worked with the developer (note it has PhysX).

Besides AA works on ATI cards with Batman, so they are not "locked out". They just have to use a different method, because they did not work with developers to get it implemented.

You guys are trying really hard to turn bad news about ATI against NVIDIA and it's not working.
Way to rephrase the issue in a biased way. Kudos to the FUD.
 

GaiaHunter

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2008
3,606
134
106
Originally posted by: Wreckage

That's because NVIDIA also worked with the developer (note it has PhysX).

Besides AA works on ATI cards with Batman, so they are not "locked out". They just have to use a different method, because they did not work with developers to get it implemented.

You guys are trying really hard to turn bad news about ATI against NVIDIA and it's not working.
So basically you are saying that since AMD didn't work with the devs, the devs chose to not allow the standard AA to run on ATI cards?

Yes, that is true. Despite the AA path that NVIDIA cards use work for ATI cards too, since AA use DX standards, that path isn't allowed by the devs.

But alas, by changing the vendor in the Batman:AA Demo you can use the in-game AA with ATI cards.

http://translate.google.com.br...tl=en&hl=pt-BR&ie=UTF-
 

Wreckage

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
5,529
0
0
Originally posted by: GaiaHunter


So basically you are saying that since AMD didn't work with the devs, the devs chose to not allow the standard AA to run on ATI cards?
It's not standard.

If it was then all games would have in-game AA. They don't. Please look up the word "standard" before making an inaccurate statement again.
 

lavaheadache

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2005
6,893
14
81
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: GaiaHunter


So basically you are saying that since AMD didn't work with the devs, the devs chose to not allow the standard AA to run on ATI cards?
It's not standard.

If it was then all games would have in-game AA. They don't. Please look up the word "standard" before making an inaccurate statement again.

you can try to sugar coat this shitty situation nvidia got themselves into but we all know it stinks
 

GaiaHunter

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2008
3,606
134
106
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: GaiaHunter


So basically you are saying that since AMD didn't work with the devs, the devs chose to not allow the standard AA to run on ATI cards?
It's not standard.

If it was then all games would have in-game AA. They don't. Please look up the word "standard" before making an inaccurate statement again.
Batman:AA on the other hand is the first(? or at least recently) to have AA for one vendor while leaving the other one off, when both vendors comply to DX standards which includes AA.

Additionally you didn't explain me how is the AA used by Batman:AA special that only works for NVIDIA cards but if you fool the game it runs just fine on ATI cards.

EDIT: added a qualifier.
 

Beanie46

Senior member
Feb 16, 2009
527
0
0
Originally posted by: Schmide


Way to rephrase the issue in a biased way. Kudos to the FUD.

You'll never convince Wreckage or any other nvidia apologist of nvidia's hypocrisy in this issue with Batman and the way AA is implemented in the game.

Consider nvidia's stance.....we're not sure how the way we have AA implemented in the game will work with other cards (yeah, right) so we disable it if anything other than an nvidia card is in use.

What nvidia really means......we fully know the way we implemented AA in this game will function perfectly on ATi cards, but since we put untold sums of money into the game, we want the suckers out there to believe we're doing ATi card uses a favor and keeping them from a less-than-stellar experience while playing the game, so we disable it completely for ATi users. So, instead of having ATi card users actually see how horrible the AA implementation operates on their cards, we'll do the favor of not letting AA operate natively within the game. Just as a favor, you know.

Personally, I think it's ludicrous to think the game was never tested on ATi cards with the AA functioning properly and natively. What is more likely is that nvidia was surprised to see the AA working better on ATi cards than nvidia cards, even after nvidia spent truckloads of development money on the game. So, next best option is to lock out the function from the competitor's product.

Almost like if a luxury sports car brand's engine only operates at full capacity with one specific brand of premium gasoline.....like Chevron. If any other brand of premium is sensed in the tank, the engine immediately detunes.....you know, for the protection of the consumer as the car wasn't tested with every brand of premium gas, don't you know, so we just want to make sure you don't suffer when you buy Exxon or Mobil or Shell or anything other than Chevron gas. Happy motoring!

Or imagine the outrage that would ensue if Windows 7 only operated on Intel i7 cpus....and ran crippled on AMD cpus. Same type of scenario....but nvidia apologists like Wreckage just cannot see the forest for the trees. No talking sense to them....just let them foam at the mouth like the little rabid 2 year olds having temper tantrums they are, and as are most nvidia/ati/intel/amd/et al fanbois.
 

GaiaHunter

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2008
3,606
134
106
Originally posted by: Beanie46
Originally posted by: Schmide


Way to rephrase the issue in a biased way. Kudos to the FUD.

You'll never convince Wreckage or any other nvidia apologist of nvidia's hypocrisy in this issue with Batman and the way AA is implemented in the game.

Consider nvidia's stance.....we're not sure how the way we have AA implemented in the game will work with other cards (yeah, right) so we disable it if anything other than an nvidia card is in use.

What nvidia really means......we fully know the way we implemented AA in this game will function perfectly on ATi cards, but since we put untold sums of money into the game, we want the suckers out there to believe we're doing ATi card uses a favor and keeping them from a less-than-stellar experience while playing the game, so we disable it completely for ATi users. So, instead of having ATi card users actually see how horrible the AA implementation operates on their cards, we'll do the favor of not letting AA operate natively within the game. Just as a favor, you know.

Personally, I think it's ludicrous to think the game was never tested on ATi cards with the AA functioning properly and natively. What is more likely is that nvidia was surprised to see the AA working better on ATi cards than nvidia cards, even after nvidia spent truckloads of development money on the game. So, next best option is to lock out the function from the competitor's product.

Almost like if a luxury sports car brand's engine only operates at full capacity with one specific brand of premium gasoline.....like Chevron. If any other brand of premium is sensed in the tank, the engine immediately detunes.....you know, for the protection of the consumer as the car wasn't tested with every brand of premium gas, don't you know, so we just want to make sure you don't suffer when you buy Exxon or Mobil or Shell or anything other than Chevron gas. Happy motoring!

Or imagine the outrage that would ensue if Windows 7 only operated on Intel i7 cpus....and ran crippled on AMD cpus. Same type of scenario....but nvidia apologists like Wreckage just cannot see the forest for the trees. No talking sense to them....just let them foam at the mouth like the little rabid 2 year olds having temper tantrums they are, and as are most nvidia/ati/intel/amd/et al fanbois.
I think it is more the case of turning this game the flagship for physX - but since the effects that are actually in game aren't earth shaking and, most likely, won't convince anyone to buy an nvidia card over an ati card, if the ati performance is the same or better and cheaper to boot (if nvidia cards were the same performance and the same price and then added extra features basically "free", yes I would buy nvidia over ati), they need to make the game look worse in amd hardware.

Then, some video showing the game running in ATI and in NVIDIA hardware would show a huge difference and to someone not informed would appear as if physX really is the thing.

Now I end my conspiracy theory post.
 

evolucion8

Platinum Member
Jun 17, 2005
2,867
3
61
Originally posted by: Wreckage
That's because NVIDIA also worked with the developer (note it has PhysX).

Besides AA works on ATI cards with Batman, so they are not "locked out". They just have to use a different method, because they did not work with developers to get it implemented.

You guys are trying really hard to turn bad news about ATI against NVIDIA and it's not working.
Bad news? The only bad news here that I can see is that Fermi is late, the GT220 is even more late, the fact that nVidia is officially out of chipset bussiness, rehashing of old GPU's, PhysX lock out, GPU's that burn out in less than a year in laptops and desktops, unfair competition removing standard features like Anti Aliasing on Batman. I'm not happy with that, but unlike you I'm fairer.

(PS) I can run Batman maxed with 8xFSAA and it runs like a champ, unlike your card which has a higher impact in the 8x FSAA mode, turn PhysX on and your FPS will dip further :p
 

ShadowOfMyself

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2006
4,230
1
0
Originally posted by: evolucion8
Originally posted by: Wreckage
That's because NVIDIA also worked with the developer (note it has PhysX).

Besides AA works on ATI cards with Batman, so they are not "locked out". They just have to use a different method, because they did not work with developers to get it implemented.

You guys are trying really hard to turn bad news about ATI against NVIDIA and it's not working.
Bad news? The only bad news here that I can see is that Fermi is late, the GT220 is even more late, the fact that nVidia is officially out of chipset bussiness, rehashing of old GPU's, PhysX lock out, GPU's that burn out in less than a year in laptops and desktops, unfair competition removing standard features like Anti Aliasing on Batman. I'm not happy with that, but unlike you I'm fairer.

(PS) I can run Batman maxed with 8xFSAA and it runs like a champ, unlike your card which has a higher impact in the 8x FSAA mode, turn PhysX on and your FPS will dip further :p
Tchh, but you dont have PissX or 3Dvision! Shame on you for using 3rd world video cards ;)
 

Beanie46

Senior member
Feb 16, 2009
527
0
0
I think the proof is when the game is hacked to fool it into thinking an nvidia card is present, although it's really an ATi card in use, that the AA that supposedly runs only properly on the nvidia hardware mysteriously runs at least as well on the ATi hardware. You'd think, given nvidia's comments, that running the AA the way it's natively written in the game, you know....to run on "properly" an nvidia card, it wouldn't run for crap on an ATi card. But it does.......strange, that.
 

Wreckage

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
5,529
0
0
Originally posted by: lavaheadache


you can try to sugar coat this shitty situation nvidia got themselves into but we all know it stinks
They are in a great situation. A game many are calling "Game of the Year" works best on their video card. They worked with the developer to not only get superior image quality but to showcase PhysX.

 

lavaheadache

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2005
6,893
14
81
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: lavaheadache


you can try to sugar coat this shitty situation nvidia got themselves into but we all know it stinks
They are in a great situation. A game many are calling "Game of the Year" works best on their video card. They worked with the developer to not only get superior image quality but to showcase PhysX.
IT ONLY WORKS BEST ON THEIR HARDWARE BECAUSE THEY FUBARED THE FRIGGIN SOFTWARE ON PURPOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IT ONLY WORKS BEST ON THIER HARDWARE BECAUSE THEY FUBARED THE FRIGGIN SOFTWARE ON PURPOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IT ONLY WORKS BEST ON THIER HARDWARE BECAUSE THEY FUBARED THE FRIGGIN SOFTWARE ON PURPOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IT ONLY WORKS BEST ON THIER HARDWARE BECAUSE THEY FUBARED THE FRIGGIN SOFTWARE ON PURPOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IT ONLY WORKS BEST ON THIER HARDWARE BECAUSE THEY FUBARED THE FRIGGIN SOFTWARE ON PURPOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IT ONLY WORKS BEST ON THIER HARDWARE BECAUSE THEY FUBARED THE FRIGGIN SOFTWARE ON PURPOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IT ONLY WORKS BEST ON THIER HARDWARE BECAUSE THEY FUBARED THE FRIGGIN SOFTWARE ON PURPOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IT ONLY WORKS BEST ON THIER HARDWARE BECAUSE THEY FUBARED THE FRIGGIN SOFTWARE ON PURPOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IT ONLY WORKS BEST ON THIER HARDWARE BECAUSE THEY FUBARED THE FRIGGIN SOFTWARE ON PURPOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry my caps got stuck and some how got repeated a bunch of times. Oh wait, no it didn't. I'm screaming at you and feel the need to repeat it a few times incase you missed what I was trying to tell you.

In fact i believe this may be the best way to talk to you.
 

waffleironhead

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
6,549
80
101
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: lavaheadache


you can try to sugar coat this shitty situation nvidia got themselves into but we all know it stinks
They are in a great situation. A game many are calling "Game of the Year" works best on their video card. They worked with the developer to not only get superior image quality but to showcase PhysX.
I'm concerned about how they are going to account for a loss of 1/3 of their profits(chipset business). Is it going to affect my share price, I damn well think so.
 

RubberJohnny

Junior Member
Sep 19, 2006
1
0
0
Hey this guy needs some tearing in his games, someone show him how!

Oh sorry you mean you wanted to get 100fps on your 60hz LCD?

What a tosser...
 

akugami

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2005
4,635
70
91
What's funny is that Intel did the same thing to nVidia in a way by locking them out of the Intel motherboard chipset business (I own a 780i mobo in my gaming rig). Wreckage accuses Intel of taking the low road in another thread. In other words, he's implying Intel engaging in unfair or at least anti-competitive behavior. When nVidia has done almost the exact same thing in getting a developer to lock out standard features that ATI is perfectly capable of producing, he praises nVidia for it. Hypocrisy at its best.

And for the record, Batman: AA was not a great game because of nVidia. Batman: AA was already a good game before nVidia pulled some strings and paid the developer to disable features when it recognizes that the user has an ATI card in their system.
 

MrK6

Diamond Member
Aug 9, 2004
4,458
3
81
Originally posted by: waffleironhead
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: lavaheadache


you can try to sugar coat this shitty situation nvidia got themselves into but we all know it stinks
They are in a great situation. A game many are calling "Game of the Year" works best on their video card. They worked with the developer to not only get superior image quality but to showcase PhysX.
I'm concerned about how they are going to account for a loss of 1/3 of their profits(chipset business). Is it going to affect my share price, I damn well think so.
You should have bailed out before September when wind of the 5xxx series was coming and NVIDIA had nothing. This just piles it on: http://moneycentral.msn.com/in...rm=1&ComparisonsForm=1

I'm not saying stocks are everything, but none of this is good news.
 

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