[H] GTX 780 Ti vs. R9 290X 4K Gaming

[wand3r3r]

The hot topic of the forum (780/ti and 290/x).

In our testing, we have found that the GeForce GTX 780 Ti outperforms the GeForce GTX 780 and GeForce GTX TITAN at 1600p resolution. In our performance testing we found that it matches the gameplay experience of Radeon R9 290X, and technically outperforms it on raw framerate, while delivering the same experience.

"As for setting up the 4K display, it seems that setting it up is a bit better now on the GTX 780 Ti. When we launched each game, we did not have any trouble setting the resolutions this time. In the past, we have had some issues, but this time it worked flawlessly. It also worked flawlessly on the R9 290X as it has since we tested it the first time. In the case of both video cards, these both stitched the display together correctly the first time, without having to manipulate any software settings. Utilizing DisplayPort, configuration on both video cards is as easy as plugging it in, installing the drivers and playing games on the 4K display."

It appears NV has done some basic driver fixes.

Crysis 3
The R9 290X started to step forward (5.5%) above the GTX 780 Ti in performance.

Far Cry 3
The Radeon R9 290X is 8% faster than the GeForce GTX 780 Ti.

Tomb Raider
When the settings are cranked up, the R9 290X takes the lead by a small 2.4%.

Metro Last Light
We see the GTX 780 Ti being 9.4% faster. This was the only time we saw the 780 Ti being that much faster than the R9 290X at this resolution.

As we have noted several times now, the Radeon R9 290X dominated the GTX 780 and GTX TITAN in Ultra HD 4K display gaming. The new GeForce GTX 780 Ti changes this ownage, and gives AMD competition at Ultra HD 4K resolution. The GeForce GTX 780 Ti gives you exactly the same gameplay experience as the Radeon R9 290X at Ultra HD 4K display gaming.

The statement above is very important. Though the AMD Radeon R9 290X now has competition at Ultra HD 4K display gaming, it isn't being "owned" by the GTX 780 Ti. The GTX 780 Ti, at $150 more, only equals the R9 290X. Both video cards are even, or on par with each other at Ultra HD 4K gaming.

The fact is that the Radeon R9 290X is delivering the same performance once again for a $150 savings. It takes the competition a $150 more expensive video card just to perform on par with the Radeon R9 290X. This reinforces our conclusion once again that the Radeon R9 290X is an incredible value right now. You really do get a lot of performance for your money.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013/11/11/geforce_gtx_780_ti_vs_radeon_r9_290x_4k_gaming

My take on 4k.
If you can afford $700-3000 (titan 3xSLI) there's no excuse to complain about 4k pricing. At least the 4k monitor will last a couple GPU generations, whereas the titanic's value has basically dropped $600 in 9 months ($2400 for 4 way SLI dropped this year).

So the 0.1% who go 4k, are the same pool as those who will go titan, or likely now 290x since it's equal to or greater than the 780 ti at 4k.

 

[bystander36]

I noticed that when testing at more playable FPS, normally using the exact settings (usually lower AA), the 780ti had better performance. It seems the 290X's advantage is in handling AA, but is lost when using playable settings at that resolution.

 

[Carfax83]

According to the article, there was throttling in Far Cry 3 in uber mode.

 

[Pandora's Box]

It's worth pointing out that a lot of us already run 4k through downscaling.

 

[f1sherman]

Open test bed, no FCAT/frametimes in multi-GPU test, no overclocking...

The GeForce GTX 780 Ti has helped NVIDIA match the Radeon R9 290X in performance at Ultra HD 4K display gaming. However, AMD is doing it for $150 less. The only benefits the GTX 780 Ti holds over the reference R9 290X at this point, is that it is quieter and produces less heat. It's hard to justify the sound profile as being worth a $150 price premium.

Brent seems to forget that in todays GPUs heat(acoustics) = performance.
In other words, you can convert that sound profile directly into performance.
In realistic [H] test - with overclocking, and in properly enclosed casing 780 Ti SLI would dominate 290x CF easily.

 

[Arkaign]

If you're going CF 290X, I hope you're watercooling lol. I imagine you would be with that kind of investment. I hate loud cards. The 290X and 290 are awesome though, the launch cooler was embarrassingly terrible but at least the 3rd party special editions should be excellent.

 

[Gikaseixas]

According to the article, there was throttling in Far Cry 3 in uber mode.

meaning that there's more performance to be extracted

Both cards are monster performance material. We need to see the same advances on the cpu front. Intel is just cruising right now.

 

[blackened23]

It's worth pointing out that a lot of us already run 4k through downscaling.

OGSSAA or downsampling is not the same as real 4k resolution.

 

[Will Robinson]

f1sherman:

Brent seems to forget that in todays GPUs heat(acoustics) = performance.
In other words, you can convert that sound profile directly into performance.
In realistic [H] test - with overclocking, and in properly enclosed casing 780 Ti SLI would dominate 290x CF easily.

Oh really? [H] tests are now unrealistic?
Would that be with just the 780Ti overclocked or both?
Hmm $1400 worth of NV Ti cards V $1100 worth of R9 xFire.
6GB of VRAM V 8GB on the R9 setup.
And you are hoping some overclocking will help it squeeze past the xfire solution?
I don't see that proposition as very attractive.

 

[blackened23]

If you're going CF 290X, I hope you're watercooling lol. I imagine you would be with that kind of investment. I hate loud cards. The 290X and 290 are awesome though, the launch cooler was embarrassingly terrible but at least the 3rd party special editions should be excellent.

Yeah, the 3rd party special editions will go a long way towards addressing the issues. But those cards aren't really usable in CFX, based on my experience - open air cards are exceptionally difficult to sandwich in mGPU mode while maintaining decent temps unless you're using something like a test bench. It will be downright impossible to sandwich open air cards in mGPU with the 290 series of cards based on their heat output in most chassis'.

 

[chimaxi83]

Is there any way to somewhat simulate 4K with just a 25 x 14 display? It'd be fun for me to see what water cooled 290 CF can do.

 

[Will Robinson]

If you're going CF 290X, I hope you're watercooling lol. I imagine you would be with that kind of investment. I hate loud cards. The 290X and 290 are awesome though, the launch cooler was embarrassingly terrible but at least the 3rd party special editions should be excellent.

Have you read Dookey's owner report on running R9 Xfire?
Worth a look....as expected noise/heat issue is overblown and doesn't gel with his user opinion.

 

[blackened23]

Is there any way to somewhat simulate 4K with just a 25 x 14 display? It'd be fun for me to see what water cooled 290 CF can do.

You can downsample, yes. But that isn't "simulating" 4k. It isn't the same.

There's a downsampling guide floating around somewhere, but i'm not sure how to do it on AMD cards.

 

[chimaxi83]

Have you read Dookey's owner report on running R9 Xfire?
Worth a look....as expected noise/heat issue is overblown and doesn't gel with his user opinion.

Did DooKey change fan speed? If so, he's no longer at default, so his results and experience are clearly meaningless :sneaky:

You can downsample, yes. But that isn't "simulating" 4k. It isn't the same.

There's a downsampling guide floating around somewhere, but i'm not sure how to do it on AMD cards.

I know it isn't the same, which is what I meant by "somewhat simulate" :thumbsup:

 

[Arkaign]

Yeah, the 3rd party special editions will go a long way towards addressing the issues. But those cards aren't really usable in CFX, based on my experience - open air cards are exceptionally difficult to sandwich in mGPU mode while maintaining decent temps unless you're using something like a test bench. It will be downright impossible to sandwich open air cards in mGPU with the 290 series of cards based on their heat output in most chassis'.

That's a great point. You know, Asus or somebody should make a special game-optimal mobo that has two full speed PCIe slots with a maximum gap between them, and include special bridges in the box for cards that require them. That way you could get card 1 at the very end of the mobo, and card 2 as close as possible to the CPU without causing trouble. The default width is just too narrow as you point out.

 

[Will Robinson]

According to the article, there was throttling in Far Cry 3 in uber mode.

Brent_Justice [H] Video Card Managing Editor, 13.6 Years
Status:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pandora's box
Very nice review. Did the 290X throttle at all, or did it maintain 1GHz clock speed? What boost speed were you seeing on the 780 TI?

Only FC3, but even with that, it was performing better than the 780 Ti in that game, with a higher gameplay experience as well. Other games weren't throttling at Uber.

Guess its not too big of a problem.

 

[thilanliyan]

Yeah, the 3rd party special editions will go a long way towards addressing the issues. But those cards aren't really usable in CFX, based on my experience - open air cards are exceptionally difficult to sandwich in mGPU mode while maintaining decent temps unless you're using something like a test bench. It will be downright impossible to sandwich open air cards in mGPU with the 290 series of cards based on their heat output in most chassis'.

Depends on the motherboard. My gigabyte motherboard can handle 3 cards with decent space between them. The bottom 2 cards definitely have a good amount of space between them and they are open air cards.

 

[Arkaign]

Have you read Dookey's owner report on running R9 Xfire?
Worth a look....as expected noise/heat issue is overblown and doesn't gel with his user opinion.

I've seen waaaay too many reviews that show the opposite, even sites that are relatively pro-AMD.

I'm not saying the 290X is a bad card in any way, just that it's plain to see that the stock cooler is indeed terrible. The proof is simply that the speeds ramp down considerably over time even with the higher fan speeds (which are ludicrously loud like legendary cards of the past!).

However, someone willing to plunk down $500+ for a top-tier GPU should have no problem replacing that junk with something good. It's such a massive issue that it WILL be addressed, both by third party 290Xs and aftermarket coolers specifically made for the 290X reference cards.

I mean come on, who wants to have a great card, but hamstring it with a crappy cooler that causes it to throttle heavily, run piping hot, and make a crapton of noise? I don't know anyone who would honestly accept that. Besides, it benches fairly awesome as it is, can you imagine what it will be like with a great cooler instead of a crap one? Much less throttling, low to moderate noise, and higher clocks? Yes please.

 

[blackened23]

Depends on the motherboard. My gigabyte motherboard can handle 3 cards with decent space between them. The bottom 2 cards definitely have a good amount of space between them and they are open air cards.

Motherboards for the most part do not let you pick and choose which slots to use for SLI or CFX. With asus and MSI motherboards there are only 2 slots to use for maximum speed CFX - SLI, despite having way more PCIE slots. This will be specified in the manual. If you deviate from the recommended 2 slots, you will run at x4/x8.

Well, technically you COULD use different slots but one of the cards would then be running at x4 speed. Which is not ideal for obvious reasons. Generally speaking, most motherboards require 2 specific slots (asus does anyway) for full speed (eg x8/x8 or x16/x16) crossfire or SLI. I don't know if GBT is different in this respect, but most motherboard manuals specify which 2 slots to use for SLI and they're generally too close for comfort in using open air cards. I'm not sure if your gigabyte motherboard is different in this respect.

 

[Carfax83]

Yeah, the 3rd party special editions will go a long way towards addressing the issues. But those cards aren't really usable in CFX, based on my experience - open air cards are exceptionally difficult to sandwich in mGPU mode while maintaining decent temps unless you're using something like a test bench. It will be downright impossible to sandwich open air cards in mGPU with the 290 series of cards based on their heat output in most chassis'.

It really depends on your case design and configuration.

For example, I use an HAF 932 case with 9 powerful case fans for positive pressure air flow.

Advantage is that I get very low component temperatures. Despite my 770s having an open air design, they rarely exceed 70 degrees and always run at maximum boost clock speed of 1241 with no down clocking, unless I'm playing a game that doesn't demand the full speed ie BL2.

And this is with three GPUs plus a soundcard sandwiched in.. Also, I have practically no meaningful dust build up. I still blow it out once a month, but compared to previous setups, it's nothing.

Disadvantage of course is that it's very noisy, which doesn't really bother me personally. My computer is in my game room (or man cave), and I game with headphones on. In fact, just the other day my wife swatted me on the head because she was shouting and I couldn't hear a damn thing while playing Batman Arkham Origins ^_^

 

[blackened23]

I mean come on, who wants to have a great card, but hamstring it with a crappy cooler that causes it to throttle heavily, run piping hot, and make a crapton of noise? I don't know anyone who would honestly accept that. Besides, it benches fairly awesome as it is, can you imagine what it will be like with a great cooler instead of a crap one? Much less throttling, low to moderate noise, and higher clocks? Yes please.

I agree completely, it's a great card with significant caveats and a lot of folks won't deem those caveats as being acceptable - but apparently a lot of people on this forum do accept that for whatever reason. I think that consumers should demand a better reference design from AMD with a B revision card that doesn't have a BIOS switch, then the whole uber versus quiet mode garbage would be moot. Every card would be uber mode with good acoustics. That would just make the 290X far more appealing for CFX, because lemme tell you, if one card is noisy (yes this is subjective) then doubling the cards up...well...do the math. And like I said, blowers are generally preferable for mGPU for reasons i've already mentioned.

I mean...come on. Why does uber versus quiet mode even EXIST. It shouldn't. This makes sense to me, but I get stonewalled at every turn for daring to mention it. Whatever. I'm done talking about it.

 

[Carfax83]

Guess its not too big of a problem.

What? If that quote is true, then it goes against his own review as the 780 Ti was ahead of the 290x in Far Cry 3 according to the benchmarks..

Link

 

[Will Robinson]

What? If that quote is true, then it goes against his own review as the 780 Ti was ahead of the 290x in Far Cry 3 according to the benchmarks..

Link

Of course its true...dude...read his post under his own name.

 

[f1sherman]

f1sherman:


Oh really? [H] tests are now unrealistic?
Would that be with just the 780Ti overclocked or both?
Hmm $1400 worth of NV Ti cards V $1100 worth of R9 xFire.
6GB of VRAM V 8GB on the R9 setup.
And you are hoping some overclocking will help it squeeze past the xfire solution?
I don't see that proposition as very attractive.

No overclocking needed, if you REALLY don't want to.
It's still easily faster overall.
That's not to say NV is perfect. There's the price, and there's some work to be done on SLI/4K.

http://vr-zone.com/articles/nvidia-geforce-gtx-780-ti-sli-review/63122.html

 

[Carfax83]

Of course its true...dude...read his post under his own name.

Well the link you gave went straight to his profile, and not his actual post..