[H]ardOCP Doom 3 Hardware Guide is up!

[Fern]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Fern
Well, I'm pleasently surprised to see them say a 9800pro w/128MB can play at *high* at 10 X 7. I was expecting it to be *medium* because of having only 128MB of vid ram. Plus the rig only had 512MB of main memory. I was expecting 1gig to be neccessary.

Well, will actually know soon enough.

I dont know, the 9800pro dropped to 7 fps on those settings. on a 3200+ 512

Doh! I missed the chart. Do ya think that dip is the "cut scene" they mentioned elsewhere that caused a dip, but wouldn't really affect playability (keeps fingers crossed).

 

[merlocka]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
HardOCP's idea of playable is laughable at best.

Good contribution.

Everyone here already knows your whole 30fps = slideshow schtick. Give it a rest. HOCP just provided a ton of good data on the performance of various cards and platforms with Doom3. If you don't like it, go back to playing Quake1 at 600fps.

 

[FluxCap]

On top of that, their attitude is like "You don't like the way we do things, then go away" Well, that actually made me keep some distance from them. Don't get me wrong, HardOCP is still one of my favorites and where else could I possibly get a hands-on reviews on Doom 3 like that? But certainly not a good attitude on their side. I would rather aggressively tackle down any issues raised up against their reviews, instead of simply saying "get lost."

Actually, their attitude is just right. That comment was made by someone on their forums who criticized their method of review and didn't have anything positive to say. To that person, I say STFU. I applaud HardOCP and they did a great job with this.

I couldnt agree more. The thing is, that when the frames probably dipped down, was when there was many enemies on the screen firing at you. And we all know what happens when u get 13fps with all that action...

Did you just decide to ignore the part about the cutscenes? The benchmark test contained 2 cutscenes which greatly effected the minimum fps and caused a majority of the spikes you see.

Do ya think that dip is the "cut scene" they mentioned elsewhere that caused a dip, but wouldn't really affect playability (keeps fingers crossed).

You sir, are correct!

HOCP just provided a ton of good data on the performance of various cards and platforms with Doom3. If you don't like it, go back to playing Quake1 at 600fps.

Agreed. People need to be happy that a site even did this much work for them and gave them an idea of how so many different systems would run a huge title like this. Hopefully, HardOCP and Valve agree to this same benchmark strategy before HL2 releases, which looks possible at this point.

 

[The Green Bean]

too lazy to seach. What would these specs get me:

2500+@ 2.2 GHZ
400 512 Ram
Ti4800SE

and what if I put on a 5900XT instead?

 

[BFG10K]

But the bottom line with their review method is - you have to trust the reviewers.

I don't take issue with their results, I take an issue when them pimping playable settings when their own results grossly disagree with them.

Good contribution.

Look at the results; they hardly scream "playable" do they? A minimum of 10 FPS? That's playable to you?

HOCP just provided a ton of good data on the performance of various cards and platforms with Doom3.

Yes they did and again, I don't have an issue with their results.

Did you just decide to ignore the part about the cutscenes? The benchmark test contained 2 cutscenes which greatly effected the minimum fps and caused a majority of the spikes you see

Cut scenes are always less demanding than actual gameplay - especially if they're pre-rendered - so if you're seeing slow downs it's certainly not them causing it. Furthermore, nowhere in hell would any cut scene anywhere be running at 10 FPS.

 

[merlocka]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Good contribution.

Look at the results; they hardly scream "playable" do they? A minimum of 10 FPS? That's playable to you?

ATTENTION EVERYONE... PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

The averege user of Anandtech does not require as many frames per second in their first person shooter games as does the Anandtech user named BFG2K. BFG2K requires many more than that, and has stated that anything below his opinon of the "playable" framerate means that the game is being rendered as a slideshow.

There. Now everyone is up to speed, and you don't need to go on and on.

 

[GeneralGrievous]

:roll:

BFG is right. 20 fps I can imagine, but I cant see how 10 fps can be considered playable by any means. The average user here is an enthusiast, and most of us desire higher framerates.

 

[FluxCap]

Cut scenes are always less demanding than actual gameplay - especially if they're pre-rendered - so if you're seeing slow downs it's certainly not them causing it. Furthermore, nowhere in hell would any cut scene anywhere be running at 10 FPS.

So, you think HardOCP is lying?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: merlocka

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Good contribution.

Look at the results; they hardly scream "playable" do they? A minimum of 10 FPS? That's playable to you?

ATTENTION EVERYONE... PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

The averege user of Anandtech does not require as many frames per second in their first person shooter games as does the Anandtech user named BFG2K. BFG2K requires many more than that, and has stated that anything below his opinon of the "playable" framerate means that the game is being rendered as a slideshow.

There. Now everyone is up to speed, and you don't need to go on and on.

LOL

What would you rather ride Merlocka? A cow or a goat?! A cow or a goat?!

BFG just has an interesting way of interpreting things pretty selectively. I probably agree with him on the dips to 10fps would equate to pauses in a game issue. I'd think the worst you want would be the very high 20s-low30s for smooth animation.

My .02

 

[PliotronX]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: merlocka

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Good contribution.

Look at the results; they hardly scream "playable" do they? A minimum of 10 FPS? That's playable to you?

ATTENTION EVERYONE... PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

The averege user of Anandtech does not require as many frames per second in their first person shooter games as does the Anandtech user named BFG2K. BFG2K requires many more than that, and has stated that anything below his opinon of the "playable" framerate means that the game is being rendered as a slideshow.

There. Now everyone is up to speed, and you don't need to go on and on.

LOL

What would you rather ride Merlocka? A cow or a goat?! A cow or a goat?!

BFG just has an interesting way of interpreting things pretty selectively. I probably agree with him on the dips to 10fps would equate to pauses in a game issue. I'd think the worst you want would be the very high 20s-low30s for smooth animation.

My .02

Where 20 or 30 FPS might be sufficient for RTS or maybe TP games, aiming in FP affects the entire scene. This is where the issue arises I think. When you move around say 100 degrees in about a second and you're getting 20-30 FPS, that's more time for the opponent to move between frames.. I don't think I'm explaining this right, and I don't think it matters for single player games, against idiot zombies, but competing in Q3, I had to tweak for a consistent 120 FPS for the most effective accuracy (not to mention the jumping height bug). Less than 80 FPS feels a bit laggy to me, and getting into the 30's zone lags too much for competitive play IMO. As far as zombies moving at half a knot, I guess I'd rather ride the cow for some protein-enriched milk after the battle.

 

[nRollo]

As far as zombies moving at half a knot, I guess I'd rather ride the cow for some protein-enriched milk after the battle.

LOL- I hear you on the "framerate is life" at online, I've said it many times. It's kind of a moot point with Doom 3 though, there aren't any 120fps machines yet. (and the game is capped at 60)

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Did you just decide to ignore the part about the cutscenes? The benchmark test contained 2 cutscenes which greatly effected the minimum fps and caused a majority of the spikes you see

Cut scenes are always less demanding than actual gameplay - especially if they're pre-rendered - so if you're seeing slow downs it's certainly not them causing it. Furthermore, nowhere in hell would any cut scene anywhere be running at 10 FPS.

BFG you constantly tear other people's posts apart with bogus information. Have you not played UT2004? The cutscenes in that game bring my computer to a crawl; maybe to 15FPS or so. During the game I get a solid 60FPS.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Fern
Well, I'm pleasently surprised to see them say a 9800pro w/128MB can play at *high* at 10 X 7. I was expecting it to be *medium* because of having only 128MB of vid ram. Plus the rig only had 512MB of main memory. I was expecting 1gig to be neccessary.

Well, will actually know soon enough.

I dont know, the 9800pro dropped to 7 fps on those settings. on a 3200+ 512

I'm guessing you got that information from my other post, in which case you should know that it only hit 7FPS for a millisecond during a cutscene.

A 9800PRO will be *fine* for Doom3. It obviously won't come close to a 6800 card, but it will still get the job done.

 

[PliotronX]

Originally posted by: Rollo

As far as zombies moving at half a knot, I guess I'd rather ride the cow for some protein-enriched milk after the battle.

LOL- I hear you on the "framerate is life" at online, I've said it many times. It's kind of a moot point with Doom 3 though, there aren't any 120fps machines yet. (and the game is capped at 60)

Total agreement, and I keep forgetting about the cap in D3 Also I just realized goat milk is enriched in protein (according to this page, it contains more protein than cow milk!) so I'm stumped on that comparison, but I guess being a trick question was the intent Maybe riding higher on a cow is better for defensive measures...

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: PliotronX

Originally posted by: Rollo

As far as zombies moving at half a knot, I guess I'd rather ride the cow for some protein-enriched milk after the battle.

LOL- I hear you on the "framerate is life" at online, I've said it many times. It's kind of a moot point with Doom 3 though, there aren't any 120fps machines yet. (and the game is capped at 60)

Total agreement, and I keep forgetting about the cap in D3 Also I just realized goat milk is enriched in protein (according to this page, it contains more protein than cow milk!) so I'm stumped on that comparison, but I guess being a trick question was the intent Maybe riding higher on a cow is better for defensive measures...

Oh man.... ROFL.... You deserve some kind of award for that excellent pwning of BFG10K. Sickbeast, good work on your part too.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: PliotronX

Originally posted by: Rollo

As far as zombies moving at half a knot, I guess I'd rather ride the cow for some protein-enriched milk after the battle.

LOL- I hear you on the "framerate is life" at online, I've said it many times. It's kind of a moot point with Doom 3 though, there aren't any 120fps machines yet. (and the game is capped at 60)

Total agreement, and I keep forgetting about the cap in D3 Also I just realized goat milk is enriched in protein (according to this page, it contains more protein than cow milk!) so I'm stumped on that comparison, but I guess being a trick question was the intent Maybe riding higher on a cow is better for defensive measures...

LOL- but a goat has bursts of speed, for head butting, ramming action? (although a goat might bounce off a cow given the disparity in mass)

BFG, your analogies have clearly provoked debate.

 

[Todd33]

Good enough for me, I run most games at 1024x768 with AA off. Far Cry looks and plays great, as should D3 if I buy it.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: Todd33
Good enough for me, I run most games at 1024x768 with AA off. Far Cry looks and plays great, as should D3 if I buy it.

No it won't - your 9800 Pro is teh suk! ATI iz liers!!! LOL!!!!11!1!

There, I just saved a few regular members here from posting (you know who you are ).

As for our 9800 Pros, it looks like 1024X768 should be pretty sweet on those cards. The HOCP preview seems to indicate that high quality 1024X768 should be possible, with only a couple of slowdowns due to the 128MB of onboard memory (vs 256MB).

A 6800GT is looking really sweet to me right now, but I won't pay more than $200 for a video card, so I guess my 9800 Pro will have to suffice.

 

[BFG10K]

So, you think HardOCP is lying?

Did H say the cutsecenes are running at 10 FPS?

I'd think the worst you want would be the very high 20s-low30s for smooth animation.

This coming from the guy that wouldn't run his 9700 Pro with any AA or AF or above 1024x768 because he claimed it would slow down too much, a situation that also caused him to then claim that the 5800U was an "equal". And now you're saying high 20 FPS is acceptable?

You are an absolutely unbelievable troll.

Have you not played UT2004? The cutscenes in that game bring my computer to a crawl; maybe to 15FPS or so. During the game I get a solid 60FPS.

I think you may be confusing cutscenes with flybys.

 

[nRollo]

This coming from the guy that wouldn't run his 9700 Pro with any AA or AF or above 1024x768 because he claimed it would slow down too much, a situation that also caused him to then claim that the 5800U was an "equal". And now you're saying high 20 FPS is acceptable?

You are an absolutely unbelievable troll.

As usual, you twist and quote out of context.

I'm a troll? Uh huh. I've seen you called much worse, by many, of late. (e.g. "nazi")

When I said that, I was talking about UT2003 and online play, where I do like to keep it in the 60s for minimum fps.

It's a little different story walking around in Doom 3 though. I've been playing the last couple hours, there aren't many spots so far, at least at "Marine" level I am playing, where you need 100fps to keep things smooth. I imagine my fps is in the 40s-50s at the 11X8 High Q Quincunx, 8x AF I'm playing at, and probably does drop to the high 20s at times.

Sheesh get over it. What do you want me to do? Hang a red ATI flag in my rec room, start goosE stepping around it with my arm raised high, shouting "Sieg Heil! Sieg Heil! Doom 3 is teh suxorz, I'm waiting for HL2!"??????

 

[Marsumane]

Sheesh get over it. What do you want me to do? Hang a red ATI flag in my rec room, start goosE stepping around it with my arm raised high, shouting "Sieg Heil! Sieg Heil! Doom 3 is teh suxorz, I'm waiting for HL2!"??????

OMFG that still has me laughing!

Have you not played UT2004? The cutscenes in that game bring my computer to a crawl; maybe to 15FPS or so. During the game I get a solid 60FPS.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I think you may be confusing cutscenes with flybys.

Actually some games have cutscenes that arent prerendered. (WC3, halo, etc) So maybe Doom 3's arent prerendered? Maybe the cutscenes are just ingame action where u have no control over your character and are being labeled "cutscenes"?
Also HardOCP did say that:

"As you can see above, it's entirely possible to experience DOOM 3 with all of the eye candy turned on. If you get into some heavy action that requires the video card to draw several monsters at one time, the frame rate can drop down to a level that we would consider "choppy." The fps dip you see at the end of the run-through is actually a cut scene and not real gameplay, so the impact of the frame rates there is nothing that would detract from your gaming experience."

This was indeed for the GF4MX440, but the 9800p's frame drop is unquestionably at the end and within the same area as was mentioned for the GF4MX440. I mean the 9800p's spike drop's time (before 361) is at the VERY end of the comparable set of lower frames on the GF4MX440. Based on this, Id say its a "cutscene".

Sorry if some of this didnt make all that much sense, but i was in a bit of a hurry. Im sure u can piece it together.

 

[GeneralGrievous]

I imagine my fps is in the 40s-50s at the 11X8 High Q Quincunx, 8x AF I'm playing at, and probably does drop to the high 20s at times.

Harcocp says that AA makes little difference in this game. What's your take on this?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: GeneralGrievous

I imagine my fps is in the 40s-50s at the 11X8 High Q Quincunx, 8x AF I'm playing at, and probably does drop to the high 20s at times.

Harcocp says that AA makes little difference in this game. What's your take on this?

I started to play in 12X10 Quin/8XAF and found it slightly sluggish on my system. (A64 3000+, MSI K8T Neo, 1GB Corsair 400MHz, 6800NU)

So I tried without the quincunx and said "Ahhhhhhh! My eyes!" due to the big time jaggies on railings and doors, especially as I turned. So I dropped a notch, added it back, very smooth.

That was at the beginning of the game where the lights work, and it is less noticeable after the catastrophe and you're mainly walking around in the dark. I'm leaving it on anyway, a smooth marine is a happy marine.

 

[BFG10K]

As usual, you twist and quote out of context.

Uh, no.

I'm a troll? Uh huh. I've seen you called much worse, by many, of late. (e.g. "nazi")

And that should concern me?

It's a little different story walking around in Doom 3 though.

Of course it is.

Just like it's a different story with SM 2.0 and SM 3.0.
Just like it's a different story with nVidia's brilinear and ATi's trilinear optimizations.
Just like it's a different story where first features are irrelevant but then they're everything.
Just like it's a different story with TWIMTBP and an "ATi hack".
Just like it's a different story with 1024x768/0/0 and 1280x1024/8/4.

That's the problem with you - it's always a different story.

What do you want me to do?

Stop trolling.

 

[BFG10K]

Actually some games have cutscenes that arent prerendered. (WC3, halo, etc) So maybe Doom 3's arent prerendered?

That's certainly possible.

"The fps dip you see at the end of the run-through is actually a cut scene and not real gameplay, so the impact of the frame rates there is nothing that would detract from your gaming experience."

Okay, but what about the dips in other places?

Bottomline: I think [K] is pimping the playable card far too hard. I'd expect them to given their exclusive but the problem is a lot of people fall into the trap of ignoring the results and simply reading the summary.