Guy "hacks" casino machine

[CU]

*Sigh* Casino games are not 'rigged.' They are built (programmed) to return a certain percentage based on the law of averages defined by the game features itself. Positions on a reel, for example, times X amount of reels; each definable position is worth X amount of $, each combination of positions is worth X amount of $. It's actually quite heavily regulated.

...snip...

As far as casinos being a losing proposition, my in-laws make a very good living (they are actually retired) playing video poker. The key is to research your machines. We know which machines have the highest payback (most are 99% or better, some even 100% ) and those are the ones we play. Last year they made close to 200K playing .25 video poker...

I agree 100% as I have programmed these games. It would be very hard for a Casino to rig these games. The winning tables and payout percentages are in the game. The Casino cannot get a game and just go lets set it to only payout 50%. Also, the games are tested by a 3rd party and they are very thorough. They test the game and read through the source code. I have seen games not pass testing because they didn't like the wording on the help screen. There is less testing in writing and running code that buys and sales stocks than there is with slot machines. Makes you feel good about the stock market doesn't it.

I believe IGT is trying to make it look like the player did something wrong, so they save face and the Casino doesn't kick some of their games out and start looking at other companies for their games

The guy found a bug or just thought he was getting lucky by doing "X". IGT should just pay the guy and fix the machines. That is what we did. Why make a paying customer mad at you and drum up bad press with a law suit. Pay the guy and he keeps playing and tells his friends how good IGT games are while you keep making money.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

So these machines aren't heavily tilted in the favor of the house? Being programmed to pay out 1% of the time is no different than rigging it.

 

[halik]

I'm fine with it. Secure your shit. Whoever left accessible debug codes on the machine is liable.

It's also laughable that it's a federal crime. The only reason they're involved is feature creep. The federal government is illegally involved in many areas only due to contortions of language and logic.

This. What if I notice the random generator has a sequence and I play the slots accordingly? They fucked up and I was playing the game.

Or what if their random number generator is seeded wrong and you notice you win more often in the morning? Are you hacking if you only play in the morning?

 

[gothamhunter]

Origin had a bug in their online store last year (or earlier this year?) that allowed for hundreds of thousands/millions of people to get absurd amounts of free games (myself included, I think around 15?). It was a bug in their system and we did nothing wrong. They could have taken our games away because of the bug, and it would have been understandable (they didn't so that was nice), but I can't imagine going to court/jail because of it. Sorry for your loss EA! Don't screw up next time.

Same thing applies.

 

[wetech]

So going through the articles will eventually get you to the motion to dismiss from the guys lawyer. It explains what he did.

Link

Cliffs:
1) Played on a machine that contained multiple ways to play.
2) Played $1 poker until "jackpot" was won, payout = $820.
3) Exited game and played another version of poker on the same machine which had a "double up" feature. Played until Double Up was achieved, inserted cash to enable feature.
4) Changed bet from $1 to $10.
5) Re-enter the original game that he had won the $820 jackpot on.
6) Hit Cash Out. The game now re-evaluates the jackpot as if he had bet $10, paying out $8200 instead of $820.

Seems completely like fraud to me. Like playing $1 roulette until you win, and then sneaking a $10 chip onto the table

 

[CU]

So these machines aren't heavily tilted in the favor of the house? Being programmed to pay out 1% of the time is no different than rigging it.

They don't payout 1%. Most range from 80-95%. It varies depending on where you are at, but in general the law is 75%. If you mean they only payout anything 1% of the time then you are still wrong. You rarely play $1 and get nothing back. If a game is not fun it does get played and the Casino doesn't keep it. And, losing $99 on $1 pulls then winning $90 back on on the 100th pull is not fun. So, you get lots of different value winnings. Some 0's, lots of sub dollar wins, and some larger than a dollar. These all make the game fun and makes up the payout percentage.

 

[CU]

So going through the articles will eventually get you to the motion to dismiss from the guys lawyer. It explains what he did.

Link

Cliffs:
1) Played on a machine that contained multiple ways to play.
2) Played $1 poker until "jackpot" was won, payout = $820.
3) Exited game and played another version of poker on the same machine which had a "double up" feature. Played until Double Up was achieved, inserted cash to enable feature.
4) Changed bet from $1 to $10.
5) Re-enter the original game that he had won the $820 jackpot on.
6) Hit Cash Out. The game now re-evaluates the jackpot as if he had bet $10, paying out $8200 instead of $820.

Seems completely like fraud to me. Like playing $1 roulette until you win, and then sneaking a $10 chip onto the table

Well that changes my opinion some what. He knew exactly what he was doing. This was no hit button "X" then hit button "Y" right before you win and look you get a big win. He got a small win, but found away to get the machine to recalculate his winnings before cashing out. If I was IGT I would pay him some, just enough to keep him happy in hopes that he puts all his winnings and more back into my games trying to find another bug. That also makes for much better press than IGT took a guys winnings back.

 

[Smoblikat]

So the house is pissed that this guy played their game and used THEIR rules to their own detriment?

 

[KeithTalent]

Gambling is such a bullshit. House always wins (unless you're a dedicated BJ counter)

How would you count a handy? :hmm:

KT

 

[Farang]

So going through the articles will eventually get you to the motion to dismiss from the guys lawyer. It explains what he did.

Link

Cliffs:
1) Played on a machine that contained multiple ways to play.
2) Played $1 poker until "jackpot" was won, payout = $820.
3) Exited game and played another version of poker on the same machine which had a "double up" feature. Played until Double Up was achieved, inserted cash to enable feature.
4) Changed bet from $1 to $10.
5) Re-enter the original game that he had won the $820 jackpot on.
6) Hit Cash Out. The game now re-evaluates the jackpot as if he had bet $10, paying out $8200 instead of $820.

Seems completely like fraud to me. Like playing $1 roulette until you win, and then sneaking a $10 chip onto the table

You want to put something out there equivalent to street card tricks, your fault if your con is flawed. While what you explained doesn't sound fair, it isn't meant to be, it's a programmed game of wits and the casino lost. That is their risk and their fault.

 

[sixone]

So going through the articles will eventually get you to the motion to dismiss from the guys lawyer. It explains what he did.

Link

Cliffs:
1) Played on a machine that contained multiple ways to play.
2) Played $1 poker until "jackpot" was won, payout = $820.
3) Exited game and played another version of poker on the same machine which had a "double up" feature. Played until Double Up was achieved, inserted cash to enable feature.
4) Changed bet from $1 to $10.
5) Re-enter the original game that he had won the $820 jackpot on.
6) Hit Cash Out. The game now re-evaluates the jackpot as if he had bet $10, paying out $8200 instead of $820.

Seems completely like fraud to me. Like playing $1 roulette until you win, and then sneaking a $10 chip onto the table

Agreed.

 

[Charlie98]

They've discovered a way to increase their odds beyond what the casino intends. Card counting in blackjack operates on the same principle.

My point is, when the casino finds ways to manipulate customers (no clocks, no windows, free alcohol, etc.) that's just good business. When the customers find an advantage, the casinos cry foul and do everything they can to rescind winnings and pursue criminal charges.

It's horseshit.

Wrong, again.

Card counting in BJ is player skill, period. The player is not changing the payout of a win, nor the amount of cards in the deck, etc. You can swap the word 'skill' for 'luck,' beginner's luck,' 'intuition,' 'WAG...' there are hundreds of other adjectives to describe what a player might or might not do.

The casino is not 'manipulating' customers... a player walks into the casino of his own free will, sits down at a machine or table and plays a game; he can leave, go to the bathroom, eat, drink and be merry. He can even wear a watch! If you set down to a slot machine and the payback programmed into that machine is 85% return and you lose your money, that's luck... not bad luck or good luck, it's just the results of X amount of passes through the RNG. If you drink free beer until you are falling down drunk and making $100 bets into an 8-deck BJ shoe... you are a dumbass.

If the OP is finding some way to back out of the running game, do something to raise the initial bet, and then back into the original game, then he is cheating the game, plain and simple.

The OP isn't finding an advantage against the house, he is cheating. Finding an advantage against the house is finding single-deck, full pay Blackjack (and knowing how to play it,) finding a 100.2% payback Jacks machine (and knowing how to play it,) finding the casino with the best comps and cash back program... (and knowing how to work it...) THAT is finding an honest to goodness advantage against the house. Knowledge is power, cheating is just cheating.

 

[highland145]

..

 

[halik]

So going through the articles will eventually get you to the motion to dismiss from the guys lawyer. It explains what he did.

Link

Cliffs:
1) Played on a machine that contained multiple ways to play.
2) Played $1 poker until "jackpot" was won, payout = $820.
3) Exited game and played another version of poker on the same machine which had a "double up" feature. Played until Double Up was achieved, inserted cash to enable feature.
4) Changed bet from $1 to $10.
5) Re-enter the original game that he had won the $820 jackpot on.
6) Hit Cash Out. The game now re-evaluates the jackpot as if he had bet $10, paying out $8200 instead of $820.

Seems completely like fraud to me. Like playing $1 roulette until you win, and then sneaking a $10 chip onto the table

Ha that's totally different and clearly fraudulent.

 

[pmv]

This doesn't seem right.

It seems troublingly one-sided. Why is it a crime when a fruit-machine user stumbles on a form of (non-violent) interaction with that machine that benefits them, but not when the fruit-machine makers make use of a form that ensures they win?

Why can't the fruit-machine manufacturers be charged with 'hacking' the humans whose psychological glitches they exploit for profit?

 

[Matt1970]

This reminds me of the guy who figured out the pattern on the game show Press Your Luck and then went on the show and raked up over $100K.

 

[Incorruptible]

Guy was a complete idiot and he could have at least done this at different times. But this isn't illegal since he didn't hack the machine.

 

[MustISO]

What's pretty crazy is there's a local casino around here and I was looking at the list of winners. This one guy has hit some kind of mini jackpot at least 2 or three times for the past 4 months (I checked last month when they were showing Nov).

http://www.marylandlivecasino.com/casino/winners-wall/december-2012/

If you look at his picture it looks like he's living at the casino.

He actually hit a jackpot 2 times on 2/20.
http://www.marylandlivecasino.com/casino/winners-wall/february-2013/

That guy has got more than 200,000 in winnings since December and they don't have March shown for some reason. I'll have to look out for him next time I go.

 

[sdifox]

I don't see how they broke any law.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

This reminds me of the guy who figured out the pattern on the game show Press Your Luck and then went on the show and raked up over $100K.

And then got involved in some other get rich quick schemes, lost a bundle, tried some illegal money-making schemes, went on the run to avoid prosecution for them and essentially died broke.

 

[HeXen]

I suppose if there was no deterrent for taking advantage of casino's, there would be no casino's long by now. If you look at it from their point of view, if the info on how he did it got out and there was no consequence, they would be out of business very quick.
I doubt it's so simple as to just toss out your machines and get some others that are coded differently or whatever. At the same time, like software piracy, the casino's including law makers may just not know what else to do about it other than over react and panic before they go bankrupt. If one guy knows a trick, someone else will too.

Reminds me of back in HS when kids told of various ways to get free soda or money from drink machines.

 

[Wreckem]

I don't see how they broke any law.

Maybe not a criminal law, but the casino could have legally voided every winning once they found out what he was doing. Furthermore, I can bet this guy is on every clark county casino's blacklist for life.

 

[Engineer]

Not a crime, not hacking. He played by the machine's rules and did not alter them

This. If I were on the jury, that's exactly the way I see it.