Guy "hacks" casino machine

[OILFIELDTRASH]

It's only a crime if you win. It's perfectly legal to lose your life savings to a rigged game though.

 

[Farang]

Perhaps a more apt comparison would be World of Warcraft?

Lets say I discover a weapon that was put in during testing, has ungodly levels of power, and was never meant for use in the game.

I use this weapon, repeatedly, and Blizzard catches me.

They will likely ban my account, but not sue me, even if I financially gain from it, say by selling powerful items that I have farmed using the weapon.

Exactly. They are responsible for that risk when they create a virtual experience to profit from. If the risk is too great that a glitch will cost them too much, they should not pursue that business model or carry insurance.

Like someone else said the games are rigged to have favorable house odds, I don't see how that is any different.

 

[highland145]

It's only a crime if you win. It's perfectly legal to lose your life savings to a rigged game though.

Hi.

 

[TwiceOver]

I hope the court laughs at the casino. This is one of those things that shouldn't even be brought into courts and waste our tax payer money.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Gambling is such a bullshit. House always wins (unless you're a dedicated BJ counter)

Agreed

I'm not sure why people bother or even go to Casinos all together. These machines have programs that are set up to their benefit.

but hey, if they can make money....more power to them

 

[PingSpike]

I agree that the guy did nothing wrong technically but as others said if he could have just shown some actual restraint he would still be making bank right now. 5 times in an hour in the same place? Even if they didn't arrest him they sure as hell are alerted to the problem now and will be fixing it. Talk about killing the golden goose. I doubt he'll go to prison though, they probably greased some palms to get him the fuck out of casinos to stop the bleeding.

I believe his story about accidentally discovering the exploit because that's the only way a grade A moron like this could have figured this out.

 

[Gibsons]

It's only a crime if you win. It's perfectly legal to lose your life savings to a rigged game though.

This. How many casino machines are 'broken' so that the payout is too low?

Maybe that should be part of discovery in the trial.

 

[child of wonder]

Scamming casinos shouldn't be a crime just like scamming their patrons isn't a crime.

That's the risk of being in the gambling business.

 

[BUTCH1]

Agreed

I'm not sure why people bother or even go to Casinos all together. These machines have programs that are set up to their benefit.

but hey, if they can make money....more power to them

What about online casino's? are they all rip-off's or some considered legit?

 

[Charlie98]

It's only a crime if you win. It's perfectly legal to lose your life savings to a rigged game though.

*Sigh* Casino games are not 'rigged.' They are built (programmed) to return a certain percentage based on the law of averages defined by the game features itself. Positions on a reel, for example, times X amount of reels; each definable position is worth X amount of $, each combination of positions is worth X amount of $. It's actually quite heavily regulated.

There is, typically, a mathematical advantage to the house... but if you go into a casino and not research the game you are playing, then you are a fool. Setting down at a slot machine that is programmed to only return about 85% and expecting to win in the long term... you are a fool.

What the OP did is probably going to be considered a 'malfunction'... and a malfunction of any kind will 'void play.' This includes unintentional malfunction (machine failure, etc) or a malfunction as a result of tampering or other manipulation of the machine. If he did it after collaborating especially, it will be likely be seen that he caused the machine to malfunction.

Remember the movie 'Casino'... where they busted the two guys working the Blackjack tables? Robert DeNiro's character narrated that their greed always makes them stand out, eventually. That's the case here... what a dumbass to go and hit the jackpot 5 times in one session (if I'm reading that correctly.) If you have the Golden Combination, just take your time and work it.

As far as casinos being a losing proposition, my in-laws make a very good living (they are actually retired) playing video poker. The key is to research your machines. We know which machines have the highest payback (most are 99% or better, some even 100% ) and those are the ones we play. Last year they made close to 200K playing .25 video poker...

 

[kozman31]

Sentences for various for-profit "hacking" violations carry sentences of up to five years under the act, as Goatse Sec. hacker Andrew "weev" Auernheimer painfully found out.

I wonder what they use for a logo...

 

[child of wonder]

As far as casinos being a losing proposition, my in-laws make a very good living (they are actually retired) playing video poker. The key is to research your machines. We know which machines have the highest payback (most are 99% or better, some even 100% ) and those are the ones we play. Last year they made close to 200K playing .25 video poker...

Then according to the casino's loose interpretation of the law, your in-laws are hackers and should go to federal prison.

 

[RossMAN]

Son, I am not disappoint.

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

must resist

It's like that line from Clerks :

"37! My girlfriend sucked 37 dicks!"
"In a row?"

 

[rh71]

the crime is stupidity for abusing, noticeably.

 

[Charlie98]

Then according to the casino's loose interpretation of the law, your in-laws are hackers and should go to federal prison.

No, they did not manipulate the machines to affect the payout, the idiot in the OP did.

 

[Farang]

No, they did not manipulate the machines to affect the payout, the idiot in the OP did.

He didn't manipulate anything. He played the game as written.

 

[Charlie98]

He didn't manipulate anything. He played the game as written.

Written where? There are no instructions on the machine on how to play. "Play 1 to 5 coins" and "Malfunction voids all plays" are the ones I see most, but there are no 'step 1, step 2...' instructions.

Granted, it's a freak in the software/hardware, but if you manipulate the machine to affect it's payout... a malfunction... the play is void.

Actually, I'd really like to know what it is he did... Curiosity overwhelms me... on the deal or on the draw? Or what? Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[M0oG0oGaiPan]

What's pretty crazy is there's a local casino around here and I was looking at the list of winners. This one guy has hit some kind of mini jackpot at least 2 or three times for the past 4 months (I checked last month when they were showing Nov).

http://www.marylandlivecasino.com/casino/winners-wall/december-2012/

If you look at his picture it looks like he's living at the casino.

He actually hit a jackpot 2 times on 2/20.
http://www.marylandlivecasino.com/casino/winners-wall/february-2013/

 

[Paladin3]

I can see they may have exploited a bug, but they did not hack the machine or "exceed authorized access." The manufacturer and casinos programmed the machines. In the normal course of playing these guy figured out that if they played in a certain way they would win more often. That's not really much different than someone who plays poker or blackjack really well vs a complete gambling noob. One has more knowledge of the game and the other does not, so the more knowledgeable will normally win more.

You might say they took advantage of a known exploit, but is it their responsibility to inform the casinos that the game they set up is easy to win if you know what you are doing?

What they didn't do was hack the machines or "exceed authorized access". Other charges *might* stick, but if they find them guilty of hacking it's like saying the player has a responsibility to tell the casino if they aren't playing their end of the game well.

If a dealer paid out too many chips on a winning blackjack hand, and the player didn't say anything, would that be stealing?

 

[SlitheryDee]

Again apples to oranges. The agreement you are entering into with the bank, when you choose to use their ATM machine, is that it is a tool for you to access funds in your account. If you took extra money through a glitch, that is an issue just like if a teller gave you extra money.

In the case of the casino, they decided to create virtual experience where you pay for a chance to make money. Therefore all rules were created by them and exist within the game that is in front of the user. If a user can play the game in a certain way to win more often, without altering the rules or 'hacking' the programming, but by simply playing the game as created, that is the fault of the casino which took on the responsibility to create the game.

Compare again to the bank, which is attempting to provide additional service from the machine. The rules of that 'game' exist outside of the machine itself--you are using it to be a customer at a bank.

I'd say that as long as the procedure he used to win was some combination of actions that might conceivably be used in the course of playing the game normally then he should be fine. For instance if a certain pattern of bets and pay lines that could be done by accident result in the payoff, that's the casino's mistake. If it's the equivalent of entering the contra 99 lives code during a part of the game where those keys would not normally be pressed, that's cheating on his part.

 

[Farang]

If a dealer paid out too many chips on a winning blackjack hand, and the player didn't say anything, would that be stealing?

Many would say yes (I might). I don't think that's an appropriate comparison though. The dealer is operating outside the rules of the game the casino created, albeit mistakenly. In this case the 'rules' (or programming) says if played a certain way the result is a win. So the payout is a result of a legitimate win.

I think more appropriate is if you realize the dealer has some sort of tell and exploit it mercilessly. You are legitimately winning the game and any payouts resulting from that.

The casino assumes all risk in trying to profit off a computerized game.

 

[Farang]

I'd say that as long as the procedure he used to win was some combination of actions that might conceivably be used in the course of playing the game normally then he should be fine. For instance if a certain pattern of bets and pay lines that could be done by accident result in the payoff, that's the casino's mistake. If it's the equivalent of entering the contra 99 lives code during a part of the game where those keys would not normally be pressed, that's cheating on his part.

My understanding is he did the former. And I agree with you

 

[child of wonder]

No, they did not manipulate the machines to affect the payout, the idiot in the OP did.

They've discovered a way to increase their odds beyond what the casino intends. Card counting in blackjack operates on the same principle.

My point is, when the casino finds ways to manipulate customers (no clocks, no windows, free alcohol, etc.) that's just good business. When the customers find an advantage, the casinos cry foul and do everything they can to rescind winnings and pursue criminal charges.

It's horseshit.

 

[JTsyo]

http://www.dailytech.com/Man+May+be...irmware+Bug+in+Poker+Machine/article31467.htm



This is nuts, lol. Question: why is this a federal crime and not a state crime?

They are pushing charges for a federal law

for violating the ambiguously worded Computer Fraud and Abuse Act of 1986 (18 USC § 1030).

I think it was OK the first time it happened but he then exploited it multiple times instead of reporting it.