Gutting the ACA

[ivwshane]

Why? What makes catastrophic coverage policies designed for short term?

They don't cover much but they are good for those who are, in between jobs, temporarily struggling financially, and other reasons.

They are short term only because:
Coverage is limited and in the long run could lead to an increase in medical bankruptcies.
They increase health care costs overall because the pool of payers is smaller and catastrophic events are a huge drain compared to preventative health care.
People are more likely to forgo coverage completely if they find their bare minimum coverage is useless.

 

[theeedude]

Why should those policies be banned? And what is it the Republicans would be getting other than more choices?

Choice of useless plans for the young and healthy and much higher priced plans for the older and sicker folks. That's what they voted for, enjoy.

Also forgot a big one, insurance companies should be allowed to sell across state lines. There’s no reason to not let them.

That is regulated at state level. No one is stopping your state from allowing insurers from other states to sell there.
Or you mean you want the federal government to force states to do it?

 

[glenn1]

Like I said, no need to keep posting, we get it, you are an idiot. You don't understand how insurance works.

Everyone else understands that those that can't afford health care get subsidies or for short stints, they could buy these bare minimum plans before being required to buy insurance that actually covers things, specifically because a larger pool of people paying for better coverage lowers costs (or maintains prices) for everyone and ends up costing people less in the long run (as in not having to deal with medical bankruptcies in large numbers like we did pre ACA).

You evidently think "insurance" means something you pay extra for to benefit others more than you. By charging you for benefits you don't expect to receive in order to make the premiums cheaper for the next guy. In my world things like "insurable interest" actually matter when you're defining whether something is insurance or simply a means to transfer costs among a group of people.

 

[Brainonska511]

Also forgot a big one, insurance companies should be allowed to sell across state lines. There’s no reason to not let them

Lol, they already can. Few if any do though because of the need to build a provider network.

Also, I don't want to buy interstate insurance, where the company will conform to the standards of the most lax state.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

You evidently think "insurance" means something you pay extra for to benefit others more than you. By charging you for benefits you don't expect to receive in order to make the premiums cheaper for the next guy. In my world things like "insurable interest" actually matter when you're defining whether something is insurance or simply a means to transfer costs among a group of people.

Sounds a lot like Social Security
Are you collecting any Glenn?

 

[glenn1]

Sounds a lot like Social Security
Are you collecting any Glenn?

Social security benefits roughly correspond to payroll taxes paid in (which are capped) thus the benefit vs. cost ratio is preserved to some extent. It's not perfect but far better than forced "insurance" which makes me pay for benefits that are impossible for me to receive in order to make the premia cheaper for someone else to receive those benefits.

 

[Jhhnn]

Social security benefits roughly correspond to payroll taxes paid in (which are capped) thus the benefit vs. cost ratio is preserved to some extent. It's not perfect but far better than forced "insurance" which makes me pay for benefits that are impossible for me to receive in order to make the premia cheaper for someone else to receive those benefits.

In general, those benefits aren't impossible for you to receive. You just don't need them, yet, but you may well down the road. Lots of people end up with pre-existing conditions acquired sometime during their lives. Diabetes, heart conditions, immune system disorders, mental conditions, complications from long ago injuries, all kinds of stuff.

It's foolish to imagine that it'll never be you. Oh, and it's not all about you, anyway, no matter how much you want it to be.

 

[theeedude]

Social security benefits roughly correspond to payroll taxes paid in (which are capped) thus the benefit vs. cost ratio is preserved to some extent. It's not perfect but far better than forced "insurance" which makes me pay for benefits that are impossible for me to receive in order to make the premia cheaper for someone else to receive those benefits.

Someone who has cancer and is unlikely to live to 65 still has to pay Social Security taxes.

 

[dainthomas]

Sure thing. Maybe your side should apply this same line of thinking to every product. "You can only afford a Yugo and not a Mercedes therefore you shouldn't own a car at all."

And I look at others paying more as a feature not a bug since they were being expressly cross-subsidized by the person who is now allowed to buy the cheaper policy not covering pre-existing conditions if they don't get an economic benefit from that policy feature (i.e. they don't have a pre-existing condition).

That's literally what insurance is, dummy. People not filing claims pay for the claims filed by others. The larger the group, the lower the average rate.

Putting everyone with pre-existing conditions in their own group and forcing them to pay orders of magnitude more (or denying them outright) than Mr Healthy Entitled 20-Something is where we were in the early 2000's before Obamacare. Remember those "good old days"?

Single payer is the only way to go if we're going to get a handle on costs.

 

[Sunburn74]

I don't understand why its called health insurance when the rate of eventual useage is 100%.

 

[glenn1]

That's literally what insurance is, dummy. People not filing claims pay for the claims filed by others. The larger the group, the lower the average rate.

Putting everyone with pre-existing conditions in their own group and forcing them to pay orders of magnitude more (or denying them outright) than Mr Healthy Entitled 20-Something is where we were in the early 2000's before Obamacare. Remember those "good old days"?

Single payer is the only way to go if we're going to get a handle on costs.

Insurance is paying a set and pre-determined premium to hedge against a risk of unknown quantity or likelihood of occurring, such as you dying during the policy term. You can actuarially calculate your risk of death during a life insurance policy term of X years and pay a premium which represents a fair value to ensure for that risk. It's not insurance if it's paying for some event you 100% know is going to occur such as a routine medical checkup or 100% known won't occur (such as a hysterectomy benefit for a man) because then there is no risk transference which is exactly what happens when you have "insurance" which covers pre-existing conditions when you don't have a pre-existing condition. Sure you can call it "health insurance" but it's really just pre-paid healthcare. You are literally complaining that someone is being allowed to buy a product which won't knowingly screw them over by covering something that is known for a fact they won't benefit from in order to make that benefit cheaper for someone else. You would bitterly complain if women were being paid less than men at their jobs to enable men to pay less for the same fringe benefit that men get, why is health "insurance" somehow different? We'd call it fraud if someone sold boat insurance to someone who didn't own a boat to make insurance cheaper for boat owners or volcano insurance to someone who didn't live near a volcano, why are pre-existing conditions treated differently?

 

[Jhhnn]

Glenn is apparently good with the idea that his insurance will only cover the first heart attack...

 

[dainthomas]

Insurance is paying a set and pre-determined premium to hedge against a risk of unknown quantity or likelihood of occurring, such as you dying during the policy term. You can actuarially calculate your risk of death during a life insurance policy term of X years and pay a premium which represents a fair value to ensure for that risk. It's not insurance if it's paying for some event you 100% know is going to occur such as a routine medical checkup or 100% known won't occur (such as a hysterectomy benefit for a man) because then there is no risk transference which is exactly what happens when you have "insurance" which covers pre-existing conditions when you don't have a pre-existing condition. Sure you can call it "health insurance" but it's really just pre-paid healthcare. You are literally complaining that someone is being allowed to buy a product which won't knowingly screw them over by covering something that is known for a fact they won't benefit from in order to make that benefit cheaper for someone else. You would bitterly complain if women were being paid less than men at their jobs to enable men to pay less for the same fringe benefit that men get, why is health "insurance" somehow different? We'd call it fraud if someone sold boat insurance to someone who didn't own a boat to make insurance cheaper for boat owners or volcano insurance to someone who didn't live near a volcano, why are pre-existing conditions treated differently?

Seems like you're forgetting how insurance companies were using completely unrelated "pre-existing conditions" (like people having their tonsils out when they were 8) to deny them coverage for cancer when they were 58.

Not sure how you got onto hysterectomies, unless you think being a woman is a pre-existing condition. And conservatives deride liberals for always having a victim mentality. Yet you see conservative men wail and cry about the extra $0.014 (per pay period) they have to pay for their insurance to have a birth control (or some other woman issue) benefit. So beta.

 

[boomerang]

Talk about bitter clingers...

A plan passed in the dead of night along totally partisan lines that was sold with a series of lies, one of which was deemed the lie of the year. A plan that was doomed to failure because the math didn't even begin to make sense and a plan that the young and healthy who were supposed to bankroll it said no thank you to. A plan for which the government couldn't even get a web site to work after spending $1.7 billion.

The left fell in love once again with the idea of something without taking into account the unworthiness, the affordability and the consequences. Typically that is termed as 'unintended consequences' but the left can't think far enough ahead to even begin to think about consequences that are unintended. It's the half a plan is just fine we've seen so much of.

Then, as is typical, when it started swirling the drain, the same people that conceived it declared themselves totally blameless. Why it's those evil Republicans the Democrazies cry! And who accepts that in totality? Their clueless base. People that aren't bright enough to understand that the Democrazies see more value in leveraging the issue for political purposes than trying to fix it. The last thing we want is a plan that doesn't come from us. If it doesn't work, we can still win elections harping on how those evil Republicans are responsible for the failure!!

But that didn't work either. A big loss in 2016. But the resurrection, it's happening again! The embalming was done half-assed and the corpse is really starting to stink but we're the party of free shit! We're here for you! We've got our slam-bam, shiny new half a plan for ya right here! Just like last time, the rich are going to pay for it all! Step right up to the voting booth.

No ID needed.

 

[ivwshane]

You evidently think "insurance" means something you pay extra for to benefit others more than you. By charging you for benefits you don't expect to receive in order to make the premiums cheaper for the next guy. In my world things like "insurable interest" actually matter when you're defining whether something is insurance or simply a means to transfer costs among a group of people.

Lol! Thanks for proving my point, idiot.

 

[ivwshane]

Great, now tweddle dum has shown up to show us the alternative reality they live in.

Talk about bitter clingers...

A plan passed in the dead of night along totally partisan lines that was sold with a series of lies, one of which was deemed the lie of the year. A plan that was doomed to failure because the math didn't even begin to make sense and a plan that the young and healthy who were supposed to bankroll it said no thank you to. A plan for which the government couldn't even get a web site to work after spending $1.7 billion.

The left fell in love once again with the idea of something without taking into account the unworthiness, the affordability and the consequences. Typically that is termed as 'unintended consequences' but the left can't think far enough ahead to even begin to think about consequences that are unintended. It's the half a plan is just fine we've seen so much of.

Then, as is typical, when it started swirling the drain, the same people that conceived it declared themselves totally blameless. Why it's those evil Republicans the Democrazies cry! And who accepts that in totality? Their clueless base. People that aren't bright enough to understand that the Democrazies see more value in leveraging the issue for political purposes than trying to fix it. The last thing we want is a plan that doesn't come from us. If it doesn't work, we can still win elections harping on how those evil Republicans are responsible for the failure!!

But that didn't work either. A big loss in 2016. But the resurrection, it's happening again! The embalming was done half-assed and the corpse is really starting to stink but we're the party of free shit! We're here for you! We've got our slam-bam, shiny new half a plan for ya right here! Just like last time, the rich are going to pay for it all! Step right up to the voting booth.

No ID needed.

 

[Jhhnn]

Talk about bitter clingers...

A plan passed in the dead of night along totally partisan lines that was sold with a series of lies, one of which was deemed the lie of the year. A plan that was doomed to failure because the math didn't even begin to make sense and a plan that the young and healthy who were supposed to bankroll it said no thank you to. A plan for which the government couldn't even get a web site to work after spending $1.7 billion.

The left fell in love once again with the idea of something without taking into account the unworthiness, the affordability and the consequences. Typically that is termed as 'unintended consequences' but the left can't think far enough ahead to even begin to think about consequences that are unintended. It's the half a plan is just fine we've seen so much of.

Then, as is typical, when it started swirling the drain, the same people that conceived it declared themselves totally blameless. Why it's those evil Republicans the Democrazies cry! And who accepts that in totality? Their clueless base. People that aren't bright enough to understand that the Democrazies see more value in leveraging the issue for political purposes than trying to fix it. The last thing we want is a plan that doesn't come from us. If it doesn't work, we can still win elections harping on how those evil Republicans are responsible for the failure!!

But that didn't work either. A big loss in 2016. But the resurrection, it's happening again! The embalming was done half-assed and the corpse is really starting to stink but we're the party of free shit! We're here for you! We've got our slam-bam, shiny new half a plan for ya right here! Just like last time, the rich are going to pay for it all! Step right up to the voting booth.

No ID needed.

Never mind that 18M Americans or so gained coverage. Never mind a conservative SCOTUS legislating from the bench to cripple it. Never mind the GOP refusing to fund it as the law prescribes.

Oh, and never mind the replace part of repeal & replace or Trumpian promises that everybody will be taken care of.

We're all just rented mules to the right wing psychopaths who run the GOP.

 

[ivwshane]

Never mind that 18M Americans or so gained coverage. Never mind a conservative SCOTUS legislating from the bench to cripple it. Never mind the GOP refusing to fund it as the law prescribes.

Oh, and never mind the replace part of repeal & replace or Trumpian promises that everybody will be taken care of.

We're all just rented mules to the right wing psychopaths who run the GOP.

Nevermind that it took a year to pass with 100 of amendments by the GOP added to the bill.

The guy is the poster child for the uninformed right winger.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Talk about bitter clingers...

A plan passed in the dead of night along totally partisan lines that was sold with a series of lies, one of which was deemed the lie of the year. A plan that was doomed to failure because the math didn't even begin to make sense and a plan that the young and healthy who were supposed to bankroll it said no thank you to. A plan for which the government couldn't even get a web site to work after spending $1.7 billion.

The left fell in love once again with the idea of something without taking into account the unworthiness, the affordability and the consequences. Typically that is termed as 'unintended consequences' but the left can't think far enough ahead to even begin to think about consequences that are unintended. It's the half a plan is just fine we've seen so much of.

Then, as is typical, when it started swirling the drain, the same people that conceived it declared themselves totally blameless. Why it's those evil Republicans the Democrazies cry! And who accepts that in totality? Their clueless base. People that aren't bright enough to understand that the Democrazies see more value in leveraging the issue for political purposes than trying to fix it. The last thing we want is a plan that doesn't come from us. If it doesn't work, we can still win elections harping on how those evil Republicans are responsible for the failure!!

But that didn't work either. A big loss in 2016. But the resurrection, it's happening again! The embalming was done half-assed and the corpse is really starting to stink but we're the party of free shit! We're here for you! We've got our slam-bam, shiny new half a plan for ya right here! Just like last time, the rich are going to pay for it all! Step right up to the voting booth.

No ID needed.

So where is this great health plan that the President said would be:
Cheaper monthly
Lower deductibles
Choice of nearly any Doctor
Everyone covered (he may have said nearly everyone covered)
Nobody dies in the street.
And it will be extremely kind

Where is it? When can I expect it? Your guys control the House, the Senate and the Presidency. Why did they stop trying?

 

[hal2kilo]

Seems like you're forgetting how insurance companies were using completely unrelated "pre-existing conditions" (like people having their tonsils out when they were 8) to deny them coverage for cancer when they were 58.

Not sure how you got onto hysterectomies, unless you think being a woman is a pre-existing condition. And conservatives deride liberals for always having a victim mentality. Yet you see conservative men wail and cry about the extra $0.014 (per pay period) they have to pay for their insurance to have a birth control (or some other woman issue) benefit. So beta.

They should be happy, they are getting their Viagra paid for.