[Guru3d] Hitman (2016) DirectX 12 updated benchmarks review

[Gikaseixas]

Fury was a bad seller

And deservedly so, GTX 980TI is a monster card but i advise you to not use that for the entire line up where AMD has beat Nvidia by larger margins

 

[ShintaiDK]

ShintaiDK even your buddy here admits it, just give up.

I have 5 PC's in my household and i took the survey once. I have mostly AMD GPU's powered machines an none was offered a survey.

And someone else with 5 opposite machines got the same as you.

When the statistical base is big enough, it becomes irrelevant. Steam is so immensely big today that its just a defacto view how it is. Only Microsoft with their telemetry got better numbers.

 

[Erenhardt]

Tinfoil time:
Amd Cheapskates can't afford games on steam

 

[seitur]

The only way you are going to get more graphics performance via the API is to go something like FP16 instead of FP32. Something that is coming soon.

DX12 is mainly for the CPU part.

It is, but that's point I was making.

It lessens overall hardware requirement on consumers, widening consumer base for AAA graphical games, allows consumers to spend more on GPU instead of CPU, etc

Remember that in previous years times CPU requirements for AAA were skyrocketing alongside GPU ones.

That is unsustainable to impoversished consumer base and at the same time AAA gaming industry need more and more consumers to buy their games (cause of rising costs of production) and GPU vendors need people to spend more money on GPU cause of low-end GPU segment getting slaughtered by IGP and lower technological process increase costs.


Sure this goes directly against Intel position in gaming and puts financial burden on AAA gaming industry cause of higher developement costs, but that is what currently is trending because of necessity.

Sure this thing can flop, market and gaming or/and semiconductor industries can change and/or economy may change - all things can happen, but for now low level APIs will be pushed because it is one of proposed solutions to currrent ongoing problems.

 

[airfathaaaaa]

And someone else with 5 opposite machines got the same as you.

When the statistical base is big enough, it becomes irrelevant. Steam is so immensely big today that its just a defacto view how it is. Only Microsoft with their telemetry got better numbers.

so what you are saying is the market share amd got is a lie because steam survey isnt showing any of the succefull cards that amd sold only a mere 360 on the wrong place being considered as something its not

another great post from shintai

you do realise that steam survey once upon a time was given each month for everyone right? (that time was till 2014)

 

[Mahigan]

*sigh*

Engines built for DX11 and then moved onto DX12 can expect performance issues as per AMD and NVIDIA's joint talk during GDC.

Does Ashes of the Singularity suffer performance issues moving from DX11 to DX12? Only on NVIDIA hardware.

What about Quantum Break? Issues only with NVIDIA hardware. It's the same for any DX12 only title, NVIDIA hardware takes a hit.

Therefore we can conclude that...
DX11 games moved to DX12 may suffer a performance penalty on AMD hardware but always suffer a performance penalty on NVIDIA hardware.

DX12 only engines work great on AMD hardware but always suffer a performance penalty on NVIDIA hardware.

Conclusion, current NV hardware doesn't handle DX12 well. Current AMD hardware handles DX12 very well.

End of discussion.

 

[Pinstripe]

The only people I'd ever trust making good use of DX12 are the Epic Games, Unity and Frostbite folks. These are middle ware providers, and they're not going to screw over either hardware vendor. To the remaining bulk of game development, DX11 will remain king for a long time simply due to the ease of use and reliability.

 

[Mahigan]

The only people I'd ever trust making good use of DX12 are the Epic Games, Unity and Frostbite folks. These are middle ware providers, and they're not going to screw over either hardware vendor. To the remaining bulk of game development, DX11 will remain king for a long time simply due to the ease of use and reliability.

I disagree, I think economics will factor in and since most game developers are targeting the consoles then porting over to the PC, we're likely going to see DX12 supplant DX11 rather quickly. This is because it costs less to port console to DX12 than it does to DX11.

I mostly see PC only titles still mostly using DX11.

 

[Erenhardt]

To the remaining bulk of game development, DX11 will remain king for a long time simply due to the ease of use and reliability.

Are you a game developer? This goes against everything game devs say.

 

[3DVagabond]

ShintaiDK even your buddy here admits it, just give up.

I have 5 PC's in my household and i took the survey once. I have mostly AMD GPU's powered machines an none was offered a survey.

Yeap. About as crooked as a Russian election.

 

[Spanners]

And someone else with 5 opposite machines got the same as you.

When the statistical base is big enough, it becomes irrelevant. Steam is so immensely big today that its just a defacto view how it is. Only Microsoft with their telemetry got better numbers.

"If the researcher appeals to people to voluntarily participate in a survey, the resulting sample is called a "voluntary response sample." Voluntary response samples are always biased: they only include people who choose volunteer, whereas a random sample would need to include people whether or not they choose to volunteer"

Increasing the size of the sample doesn't cancel out the selection bias and make it "irrelevant".

https://www.ma.utexas.edu/users/mks/statmistakes/biasedsampling.html

 

[selni]

*sigh*

Engines built for DX11 and then moved onto DX12 can expect performance issues as per AMD and NVIDIA's joint talk during GDC.

Does Ashes of the Singularity suffer performance issues moving from DX11 to DX12? Only on NVIDIA hardware.

What about Quantum Break? Issues only with NVIDIA hardware. It's the same for any DX12 only title, NVIDIA hardware takes a hit.

Therefore we can conclude that...
DX11 games moved to DX12 may suffer a performance penalty on AMD hardware but always suffer a performance penalty on NVIDIA hardware.

DX12 only engines work great on AMD hardware but always suffer a performance penalty on NVIDIA hardware.

Conclusion, current NV hardware doesn't handle DX12 well. Current AMD hardware handles DX12 very well.

End of discussion.

Didn't that same talk also say you really needed a lot of IHV/architecture specific code? Even ashes, which is probably the best implementation so far had oxide say the only vendor specific code was disabling async compute for nv.

 

[tential]

And someone else with 5 opposite machines got the same as you.

When the statistical base is big enough, it becomes irrelevant. Steam is so immensely big today that its just a defacto view how it is. Only Microsoft with their telemetry got better numbers.

Which is exactly why you've posted statistics on how many people take the steam survey.
Or why you've posted any specific numbers.

Because you have no specific numbers, and no evidence to back up your claims. Just conjecture.

Are you a game developer? This goes against everything game devs say.

Just like earlier posters in the thread, they will have 0 evidence to back up their claims.

 

[thilanliyan]

Tinfoil time:
Amd Cheapskates can't afford games on steam

Peasants!!!

 

[TheELF]

*sigh*

Engines built for DX11 and then moved onto DX12 can expect performance issues as per AMD and NVIDIA's joint talk during GDC.

Does Ashes of the Singularity suffer performance issues moving from DX11 to DX12? Only on NVIDIA hardware.

What about Quantum Break? Issues only with NVIDIA hardware. It's the same for any DX12 only title, NVIDIA hardware takes a hit.

Therefore we can conclude that...
DX11 games moved to DX12 may suffer a performance penalty on AMD hardware but always suffer a performance penalty on NVIDIA hardware.

DX12 only engines work great on AMD hardware but always suffer a performance penalty on NVIDIA hardware.

Conclusion, current NV hardware doesn't handle DX12 well. Current AMD hardware handles DX12 very well.

End of discussion.

Nope.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2465194

Nvidia gets a nice boost from dx12 in ashes,as long as you are on a core that can't drive the dx11 graphics thread fast enough.
Isn't that the whole point of dx12?

Of course on an o/c i7 going from single thread optimized dx11 to multihreaded dx12 adds (unnecessary for the i7) overhead and makes it slower.
We had this discussion before...

 

[maddie]

Nope.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2465194

Nvidia gets a nice boost from dx12 in ashes,as long as you are on a core that can't drive the dx11 graphics thread fast enough.
Isn't that the whole point of dx12?

Of course on an o/c i7 going from single thread optimized dx11 to multihreaded dx12 adds (unnecessary for the i7) overhead and makes it slower.
We had this discussion before...

Did you post the wrong chart?

Those 960 and 970 models don’t seem to be supporting your narrative.

 

[airfathaaaaa]

gee i wonder why no one keeps posting results of higher resolution when it comes on dx12 games..

truth is simple tho

 

[Erenhardt]

Nope.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2465194

Nvidia gets a nice boost from dx12 in ashes,as long as you are on a core that can't drive the dx11 graphics thread fast enough.
Isn't that the whole point of dx12?

Of course on an o/c i7 going from single thread optimized dx11 to multihreaded dx12 adds (unnecessary for the i7) overhead and makes it slower.
We had this discussion before...

What? I dont recall having that argument before. Multithreading unnecessary for 8 thread CPU but a huge deal for something with 2 threads?! Please go on, would like to know the thought process behind that

 

[thesmokingman]

^^I'd like to see this narrative as well.

 

[Pinstripe]

truth is simple tho

Truth is that both show unplayable framerates, but perhaps you prefer to play these "games" with choppy framerates...

 

[airfathaaaaa]

Truth is that both show unplayable framerates, but perhaps you prefer to play these "games" with choppy framerates...

yeah i guess because its been known that we buy a card that costs 600 only to play on 1080p
oh wait we only claim that when we are actually winning there D:

also yeah no one plays on ultra on anything above 1080p its moot really we are far away from that moment

 

[TypoFairy©]

Truth is that both show unplayable framerates, but perhaps you prefer to play these "games" with choppy framerates...

Since when did anyone need 120fps to play an rts

 

[AtenRa]

Truth is that both show unplayable framerates, but perhaps you prefer to play these "games" with choppy framerates...

Clearly you dont own the game.

 

[Pinstripe]

Clearly you dont own the game.

No, I don't spend money on benchmarks with a game slapped on top of it as an afterthought, and 35 fps are unacceptable, RTS or not.

 

[airfathaaaaa]

No, I don't spend money on benchmarks with a game slapped on top of it as an afterthought, and 35 fps are unacceptable, RTS or not.

30 is cinematic 35 is 3d 60 is 4d

you have to understand that different games genre needs different things...
rts/rpg's wont really bother if it goes down to 30 fps the game is not about that
while on a fps if you go down to 40-35 sometimes it can be unplayable...