gun nutters . . . . scary stuff!

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Both guns and cars are inanimate objects that pose NO threat to anyone until and unless they are manipulated by a human being.

No deaths result from the existence of these objects, or from their design. It's the intent of the manipulator that opens up the possibility for harm.

So let's focus on the manipulator, to solve the problem.

Stop trying to equate guns with cars. They're two different things. You can replace those two words guns and cars in your sentence with water bottle and baseball bat.

You're not incorrect, but using a 30,000 feet analogy for thse two objects to equate them? Ehh.

The differences between a car and gun are simple, but like I've said again and again, their primary purposes are different. Because their primary purposes are different, you would expect different levels of interest in deaths resulting from the use of each.

Furthermore, the nature of deaths are different. Car deaths are mainly due to negligence and idiotic behavior. If you wanted to put this in gun terms it's giving your 3 year old a gun and having the gun go off accidentally and killing a parent. But that's not the case. Homicides and murders are common amongst gun deaths.

Also I mentioned the use pattern of cars and guns are totally different. We use cars far more and more of us are engaged in vehicular use on a daily basis for far more time. Using a gun for an hour versus driving an hour is something totally different. You can't compare fataility rates at all. It just doesn't even make sense.

 

[HAL9000]

Last I heard, 'bad eggs' don't have easy access to guns... We have background checks to weed them out... The nuts that have not gone publicly nuts still have access of course but if you want to stab me with your kitchen knife because I said most Brits have nasty dental, you don't need a background check to get one.

True, but in the UK I wouldn't be allowed to carry said knife in public. So that's a good step we've made ahead of the US.

 

[irishScott]

True, but in the UK I wouldn't be allowed to carry said knife in public. So that's a good step we've made ahead of the US.

No woner Hal's so defensive about his arguments being valid despite his mental conditions. If he wasn't he'd have to admit he's batshit insane.

Here's an example of something you would get arrested for in the UK, just for carrying it. All because it has a locking blade.
http://www.victorinox.com/us/product/Swiss-Army-Knives/Category/Do-It-Yourself/RescueTool/53900

 

[xj0hnx]

Have you got a better reason? Are you guys just more murderous than we are...?

Much smaller criminal population is one thing. Your popular music doesn't glorify killing people while pimpin' out yer bitches and ho's.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Here's an example of something you would get arrested for in the UK, just for carrying it. All because it has a locking blade.

Aren't a lot of knives illegal or very limited in the US too?

 

[xj0hnx]

Aren't a lot of knives illegal or very limited in the US too?

Not really. Varies a lot by state too.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Not really. Varies a lot by state too.

By the looks of it by federal law they are, but some states allow limited use?
edit- limited means you can have one in your house but can't take it outside, which is the same as the UK?

 

[irishScott]

Aren't a lot of knives illegal or very limited in the US too?

Automatic knives/switchblades are largely restricted to military/law enforcement, but beyond that virtually anything goes in most areas. A few states and cities have laws dictating blade length, but that's as strict as it gets. It varies from state-to-state, but I could carry a full-blown combat knife on me day-to-day in many states and not break any laws.

If I ever visit the UK I want to go to Hal's house. I'll get a throwaway knife, a hotel a mile away and walk with my deadly [deep satanic voice] "3 inch locking blade" in my pocket right to his doorstep, show it to him, and walk back to my hotel. I'll wipe it down and toss it into a trash can or something on my way back. Bet he'll wet the bed that night realizing just how useless some of his nation's laws are. Of course he'll forget it and revert 6 days later.

Edit: I received an infraction for the above, and I would like to point out that this is in no way a personal threat. I merely described a physical action. By "show it to him" I mean literally pulling it out into his field of vision, demonstrating the utter inability of his nation's useless knife-carrying law to stop me, and then putting it away and leaving.

 

[Rainsford]

Much smaller criminal population is one thing. Your popular music doesn't glorify killing people while pimpin' out yer bitches and ho's.

I'm pretty sure they have hip-hop in the UK...

I think it's a complicated problem though, to be perfectly honest. Our justice system does a pretty good job of turning minor criminals into major criminals (due to our completely screwed up sentencing and prison system), it's pretty hard to do something else in many neighborhoods in the US.

And certainly culture does have something to do with it, but not just when it comes to rap music. Even normal people here in the US seem way more willing to view violence against others as a reasonable course of action than I'd expect from some place like the UK. Now most people don't act on that, or would only do so in self-defense, but it's still a pretty pervasive part of much of our culture.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Automatic knives/switchblades are largely restricted to military/law enforcement, but beyond that virtually anything goes in most areas. A few states and cities have laws dictating blade length, but that's as strict as it gets. It varies from state-to-state, but I could carry a full-blown combat knife on me day-to-day in many states and not break any laws.

If I ever visit the UK I want to go to Hal's house. I'll get a throwaway knife, a hotel a mile away and walk with my deadly [deep satanic voice] "3 inch locking blade" in my pocket right to his doorstep, show it to him, and walk back to my hotel. I'll wipe it down and toss it into a trash can or something on my way back. Bet he'll wet the bed that night realizing just how useless some of his nation's laws are. Of course he'll forget it and revert 6 days later.

I'm listening right now to some knife advocates speaking on Youtube and they are saying you would not want to try to take even a pocket knife across state lines, let alone trying to smuggle one through TSA

 

[irishScott]

I'm listening right now to some knife advocates speaking on Youtube and they are saying you would not want to try to take even a pocket knife across state lines, let alone trying to smuggle one through TSA

Depends on the states. I carry a locking 3" pocket knife between Delaware, Maryland, DC and Virginia all the time. It's part of my daily carry and legal in all 3 states and DC.

And I wouldn't have to smuggle it through the TSA; I don't need it on the plane. Put it in checked baggage = no issue.

 

[xj0hnx]

By the looks of it by federal law they are, but some states allow limited use?
edit- limited means you can have one in your house but can't take it outside, which is the same as the UK?

LOLWUT!?

No, federal law does not prohibit carrying a knife, just some types, like switchblades, or gravity knives, but you can carry a folding knife, even with a locking blade, spring assist, and none folding of a certian length.

 

[xj0hnx]

I'm pretty sure they have hip-hop in the UK...

Yea, but it's about a criminal as Beiber.

 

[Rainsford]

Yea, but it's about a criminal as Beiber.

Heh, that's possible, I'm no UK hip-hop expert. But rather than question the artistic material, I'd question the culture that thinks music (or movies, or video games, or whatever) depicting violence means it's OK to do it yourself. If you listen to rap and decide it means you can shoot cops, I don't think the problem is the music...

 

[irishScott]

Heh, that's possible, I'm no UK hip-hop expert. But rather than question the artistic material, I'd question the culture that thinks music (or movies, or video games, or whatever) depicting violence means it's OK to do it yourself. If you listen to rap and decide it means you can shoot cops, I don't think the problem is the music...

Not in and of itself, but it can encourage such behavior; especially if it's all you listen too as a kid.

 

[Orignal Earl]

LOLWUT!?

No, federal law does not prohibit carrying a knife, just some types, like switchblades, or gravity knives, but you can carry a folding knife, even with a locking blade, spring assist, and none folding of a certian length.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bGvbjEzQ6g

US Government To Ban Pocket Knives June 30th 2009 - All One Handed Opening Knives To Be Made

edit- I see it failed but big brother is defiantly trying

 

[irishScott]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bGvbjEzQ6g

US Government To Ban Pocket Knives June 30th 2009 - All One Handed Opening Knives To Be Made

Oh that. Didn't watch the video but I remember the incident. It didn't amount to anything, and in fact backfired by resulting in one-handed opening, locking knives and spring-assisted knives being made explicitly legal (where before the language had been ambiguous). Various knife advocacy groups banded together and got enough political clout.

 

[Hammerman]

True, but in the UK I wouldn't be allowed to carry said knife in public. So that's a good step we've made ahead of the US.

What step? They exist everywhere over there so the criminals - insane will be able to steal/obtain them and commit their savage knife crimes.... I am sure that all the sane people can handle their cutlery in a safe manner but it will be the cuckoos that have made the everyday usage and availability of various knives that much tougher. The knee jerks creating the laws as a result of a few insane idiots make everyday life more difficult.

 

[irishScott]

What step? They exist everywhere over there so the criminals - insane will be able to steal/obtain them and commit their savage knife crimes.... I am sure that all the sane people can handle their cutlery in a safe manner but it will be the cuckoos that have made the everyday usage and availability of various knives that much tougher. The knee jerks creating the laws as a result of a few insane idiots make everyday life more difficult.

But it makes them feel safe. Seems to be part of British psychology. They assume any strangers are all like the Colorado killer, just psychopaths in disguise. Thus they need the authorities to tell them off, like that wimpy kid who doesn't deal with the bully but goes running to his parents to let them talk to the other kid's parents. And hey can you blame them? Look at the riots. Seems like Brits have a good reason to be suspicious of each other.

 

[bfdd]

Where? Could you quote where I got "owned"

When you had no retort or even apologetic reply to getting squashed on the fact people have been and can easily build nuclear reactors in the safety of their own homes. Fucking tool bag, your ass needs to be banned for constantly spouting false information when you're constantly being shut the fuck up on the matter.

 

[HAL9000]

No woner Hal's so defensive about his arguments being valid despite his mental conditions. If he wasn't he'd have to admit he's batshit insane.

Here's an example of something you would get arrested for in the UK, just for carrying it. All because it has a locking blade.
http://www.victorinox.com/us/product/Swiss-Army-Knives/Category/Do-It-Yourself/RescueTool/53900

I carry this knife with me everywhere, it's very useful.

 

[HAL9000]

When you had no retort or even apologetic reply to getting squashed on the fact people have been and can easily build nuclear reactors in the safety of their own homes. Fucking tool bag, your ass needs to be banned for constantly spouting false information when you're constantly being shut the fuck up on the matter.

Oh! The post where you claimed there hadn't been any killing spree's in the US since 2009 and that people building nuclear reactors were common place. :|

It's just oh so damn common for people to go on these shooting rampages. Oh wait it isn't and the last one we had was on a military base executed by military personnel back in 09.

 

[irishScott]

I carry this knife with me everywhere, it's very useful.

Yep, but add something other than a slip-joint lock, and it's suddenly a deadly weapon.

 

[HAL9000]

Yep, but add something other than a slip-joint lock, and it's suddenly a deadly weapon.

No, it's suddenly illegal.

It's like saying "Ha you can carry a knife around, but add an automatic switch to it and it's suddenly and deadly weapon " that isn't the case, and yet they are illegal in America.

 

[mect]

Have you got a better reason? Are you guys just more murderous than we are...?

So the theory is that guns are a significant factor increasing the number of homicides. If this is true, we should then see a correlation between the states with the highest gun ownership and the highest homicide rates. Kentucky is #1 for gun ownership, followed by Utah, Montana, Wyoming, Alaska, West Virginia, South Dakota, North Dakota. These states rank 25, 40, 37, 46 , 24 (surprised Alaska is this high), 30, 35, 45. So the top 8 states in guns per capita somehow all (except Alaska, which is still close) are in the bottom half of in terms of gun violence. Hell, Idaho, which hit in at 13 in terms of most estimated guns per household in the US, has a homicide rate of 1.3/100,000, comparable to the UK. One final indicator that access to guns is not a significant factor is the fact that over the past decade or so, regulations for things like concealed carry have been loosened across the country, and at the same time our homicide rates have decreased. If there is a true, positive correlation between access to guns and homicide rates, it is a very weak one which is easily drowned out by other more significant factors.

So in answer to your question, yes, there is a much better reason. We have a serious cultural problem in our inner cities where kids are stuck in a cycle of gang violence. We will get a lot further fixing this by working on ways to break this cycle, providing these kids with other opportunities, than we will by taking guns away from law abiding citizens. I'm all for reforms that make it more difficult for criminals to get guns, but too often politicians think if they pass legislation, then that means they're fixing the problem regardless of whether the solution makes things better or worse, and we end up with shit like TSA.