Gun nuts - I need your advice

[RampantAndroid]

Shotguns are terrible home defense tools. Stop suggesting them.

OK, fine. You can use a banana to defend yourself then.

 

[Farmer]

I recently purchased a 9mm (CZ75 SP01 with a decocker) as my first handgun. I think 9mm is a great cartridge for a first handgun. The recoil is not a problem.

 

[*kjm]

I have shot more rounds in the military than you could even think of and ran my share of ranges....

Get a 22 for your first handgun and plunk away. It doesn’t have to be the best one just one you can shoot and hit a target. Get some training right away with said handgun! Don’t get bad habits you will have to break down the road buy teaching yourself. Some trainers/good trainers will have handguns for you to use for the classes and can point you to good beginner handguns.

Once you are done with your training see if the range you shoot at/ take your lesson at rents the models you may be looking at and shoot them... again ask your instructor if you trust him/her.

Example.... 45 in sub compact.
XDm 45 Compact

Short barrel and watch the kick of a whole 1/8 inch. with the right technique.

 

[OverVolt]

^

All that really matters is how many rounds you fire for training. Building bad habits is just learning the hard way. You can suppress someones learning curve for short-term gains in skill but they don't know why they are doing what they are being told to do and won't ever master the skill.

Like every person ever firing with an instructor over their shoulder. Two best rounds: .22 and 9mm, because they are cheap and you get to train alot.

 

[Binarycow]

get a revolver (a 7 round revolver if possible) and forget all the hassles of a regular pistol. The people that argue that 7 rounds are not enough, I will say not enough to do what? If you couldnt drop a bad guy within 15-20 ft with 7 rounds then you had more problems than just the limited number of rounds.
A SW revolver is possible one of the safest guns you can own. You can probably throw it down to the ground from 20 ft up and it wouldnt misfire. The trigger is like 10-12 lbs, too heavy for most young children to pull it.
Get a hammerless (enclosed hammer) model and it would make a fine CW too.

 

[Kroze]

get a revolver (a 7 round revolver if possible) and forget all the hassles of a regular pistol. The people that argue that 7 rounds are not enough, I will say not enough to do what? If you couldnt drop a bad guy within 15-20 ft with 7 rounds then you had more problems than just the limited number of rounds.
A SW revolver is possible one of the safest guns you can own. You can probably throw it down to the ground from 20 ft up and it wouldnt misfire. The trigger is like 10-12 lbs, too heavy for most young children to pull it.
Get a hammerless (enclosed hammer) model and it would make a fine CW too.

Following your idiotic logic. All guns should only have 1 bullet, if you couldn't drop a bad guy with 1 round to the head from 15-20 feet, then you have more problems than just the limited number of round...

Well, maybe 2 rounds per gun because they may have a partner in crime.

 

[Binarycow]

Following your idiotic logic. All guns should only have 1 bullet, if you couldn't drop a bad guy with 1 round to the head from 15-20 feet, then you have more problems than just the limited number of round...

Well, maybe 2 rounds per gun because they may have a partner in crime.

So you stretch my words from 7 (that's 1+1+1+1+1+1+1) down to 1, and you call me idiotic? you even know how large a factor between the number 7 and the number 1 before making that stupid comment? Quit following my logic or any logic and just take what people say at face value and quit putting your words in people's mouth. Also if you really plan to shoot a bad guy 15-20 ft away in the head then youre too stupid to make any comment about guns.

 

[Kroze]

So you stretch my words from 7 (that's 1+1+1+1+1+1+1) down to 1, and you call me idiotic? you even know how large a factor between the number 7 and the number 1 before making that stupid comment? Quit following my logic or any logic and just take what people say at face value and quit putting your words in people's mouth. Also if you really plan to shoot a bad guy 15-20 ft away in the head then youre too stupid to make any comment about guns.

Oh wait, so now it's the situation, distance, and location that determine the amount of rounds you should have? No way!! That's pretty ironic.

How did you come up with the magical amount of 7 rounds deemed necessary for all situations?

chest thumpers who always say..."if you need more than xx rounds" are annoying.

 

[Kroze]

The average hit rate of a police officer shooting someone who is not fighting back is 32%. That rate drop down to 18% if they do.

So if a trained cop have a 1 in 5 hit ratio when going against someone who fights back. What is the hit percentage of a civilian who doesn't shoot and train yearly like cops?

With only 25% of shots are fatal and 1 in 5 shots being hit (by trained cops, much lower if you're just a civilian, probably 1 hit in 7 shots), your logic of "if you need more than 7 rounds" is stupid.

 

[rommelrommel]

Not to mention 12lbs trigger pull is brutal, you should not be relying on a heavy trigger pull for child safety, nor should any gun discharge if dropped, also if that revolver jams you are NOT clearing it while with a semi you at least have a chance to maybe rack it...

I would not dump on anyone for picking a revolver but you're not exactly making a very good case for that choice. I'm not even sure what the "hassles of a regular pistol" are anyways...

 

[Merad]

A SW revolver is possible one of the safest guns you can own. You can probably throw it down to the ground from 20 ft up and it wouldnt misfire.

No modern handgun should fire when dropped. Hell, the guy who did the torture test on his G21 threw it out of an airplane (and off of a building, and dragged it down the road tied to the bumper of his truck).

 

[OverVolt]

^^^

??? oooookkayyy

 

[shortylickens]

Yeah well made guns dont just "go off". That a myth Hollywood and idiot liberals keep perpetuating, and since people are too dumb to question Hollywood, or ignorant liberals, that nonsense keeps going around.

 

[Merad]

^^^

??? oooookkayyy

http://theprepared.com/content/view/90//administrator/

 

[RampantAndroid]

No modern handgun should fire when dropped. Hell, the guy who did the torture test on his G21 threw it out of an airplane (and off of a building, and dragged it down the road tied to the bumper of his truck).

Yeah well made guns dont just "go off". That a myth Hollywood and idiot liberals keep perpetuating, and since people are too dumb to question Hollywood, or ignorant liberals, that nonsense keeps going around.

M1 Garand Slamfire. Same for the SKS...they can "just" go off with bad primers, or primers not seated right.

 

[pontifex]

M1 Garand Slamfire. Same for the SKS...they can "just" go off with bad primers, or primers not seated right.

m1 garands and sks are not modern guns.

also, the how does bad ammo mean the gun is dangerous?

 

[RampantAndroid]

m1 garands and sks are not modern guns.

also, the how does bad ammo mean the gun is dangerous?

Go look up what causes a slamfire. If the primer is seated right, you get a dimple when you chamber the round. If it isn't seated right, that dimple can become enough to set the round off while out of battery.

More than that:
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92828#Post92827

 

[rommelrommel]

So you pick a variant of a 100+ year old design that doesn't have a firing pin safety to make the point that modern guns go off when dropped? Slamfires are not about being dropped either.

 

[x-alki]

get a revolver (a 7 round revolver if possible) and forget all the hassles of a regular pistol. The people that argue that 7 rounds are not enough, I will say not enough to do what? If you couldnt drop a bad guy within 15-20 ft with 7 rounds then you had more problems than just the limited number of rounds.
A SW revolver is possible one of the safest guns you can own. You can probably throw it down to the ground from 20 ft up and it wouldnt misfire. The trigger is like 10-12 lbs, too heavy for most young children to pull it.
Get a hammerless (enclosed hammer) model and it would make a fine CW too.

Yeah, 7 is more than enough because the bad guys always stand still when you shoot them.

 

[shortylickens]

Yeah, 7 is more than enough because the bad guys always stand still when you shoot them.

If you spray bullets recklessly I hate you and hope your ass ends up in jail.

 

[boomhower]

The Sig 226 is a great gun. I have two and love them. My last purchase was a P938 that is my BUG, great little gun. Unless you have some kind of wrist injuries the .40 should not be an issue, especially in an all steel full size gun. That said, I'd get a 9mm. For personal defense with modern ammunition it's a wash, shot placement is what matters. With 9mm the ammo is cheaper so you'll shoot more which will do a lot for you ability to survive a self defense encounter than a slightly bigger bullet.

The only people who need backup are cops and base security. And the pistol is their backup.

The primary weapon is a shotgun.

Only detectives and movie characters need two pistols.

Where do you live where the cops get out on every call and traffic stop with a shotgun?

Shotguns are terrible home defense tools. Stop suggesting them.

While shotguns aren't the best for everyone's situation it is far and away the closest your going to get to a one shot stop. Easy to use and more forgiving on shot placement make it a pretty darn versatile tool under stress.

The average hit rate of a police officer shooting someone who is not fighting back is 32%. That rate drop down to 18% if they do.

So if a trained cop have a 1 in 5 hit ratio when going against someone who fights back. What is the hit percentage of a civilian who doesn't shoot and train yearly like cops?

With only 25% of shots are fatal and 1 in 5 shots being hit (by trained cops, much lower if you're just a civilian, probably 1 hit in 7 shots), your logic of "if you need more than 7 rounds" is stupid.

I think you'll be sadly disappointing in the amount of firearms training your police officers receive.

 

[RampantAndroid]

So you pick a variant of a 100+ year old design that doesn't have a firing pin safety to make the point that modern guns go off when dropped? Slamfires are not about being dropped either.

Wait, what? The Garand and SKS are far from 100 years old. The series 70s and 80s 1911s are also not 100 years old - and there are reports of series 80 1911s still going off.'

More than that, look around. You'll see reports of SIG556s going off, TAR21s...

Inertial firing pins can go off. It's just a design problem.

 

[jpeyton]

Get a nice 9mm for $500 or less.

Glock 17/19, CZ-75, Sig SP2022, S&W M&P9, Beretta 92, Walther PPQ, FNH FNP-9, etc.

Spend $50 on a decent holster, and $200 on 1000 rounds of range ammo.

Eye/ear protection, targets, cleaning supplies and a small range bag will run about $50.

So you're looking at roughly $800 to get you started.

I recommend getting your firearm at a local gun shop. Locate all the ones in your area and spend an afternoon browsing their new/used selection. It will give you a chance to hold them in your hand, dry fire them to get a feel of the trigger, and compare prices.

I don't see any reason to get a firearm chambered in .40 S&W. With modern semi-automatic handgun ammunition, there are three key factors in the knockdown power of a round:

1) Shot placement
2) Penetration depth
3) Expansion

Shot placement is obviously number 1, because you only wound your target if the round directly hits/knicks a vital organ or blood vessel. This factor is ammunition agnostic; it doesn't matter if you're shooting .45ACP or .22LR, shot placement is always #1 with handgun ammunition.

Penetration depth is number 2 because your round has to make it through clothing, skin, muscle, fat, and bone before continuing deep enough to score a hit on that vital. Muzzle energy and ballistics will affect penetration.

Expansion is number 3 because the wider that round mushrooms, the more surface area it has going through the wound channel. A shot with a .22LR will have to be much more accurate in order to hit a vital vs. .45ACP, which tears a wider path through tissue.

Side by side, 9mm and .40 S&W produce similar numbers in penetration and expansion. If you really want a harder hitting load, use 9mm +P. But most people do fine with standard 9mm loads. Ultimately, 9mm is infinitely more commonplace worldwide and thus is a lot less expensive to shoot.

 

[BladeVenom]

Wait, what? The Garand and SKS are far from 100 years old. The series 70s and 80s 1911s are also not 100 years old - and there are reports of series 80 1911s still going off.'

The 80's series has a firing pin safety.

I know the 70's series can go off if dropped, although usually it requires it to be dropped onto it's muzzle on a hard surface. Several manufacturers make 70's type 1911s.

 

[RampantAndroid]

The 80's series has a firing pin safety.

I know the 70's series can go off if dropped, although usually it requires it to be dropped onto it's muzzle on a hard surface. Several manufacturers make 70's type 1911s.

...yes, I know quite well what the versions are. Go look for series 80 firings when dropped. I found two within 5 minutes. And the schwartz safety doesn't really work.