Gun for self defense while traveling and small hands.

[MustangSVT]

http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/plr22.htm

hehehe dick tracy

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Many adults don't drive. Many many. I personally know only a half dozen or so, but most people I know are country/small town folk. There are only about 100,000,000 registered drivers in the US (roughly 1/3 the population). Just google it. There are also only 200,000,000 cars, and only 60% of those are registered and active. Again, just google it.

25% is on the low end of all studies I've ever seen. Most agree it's between 1/3 and 1/2 (actually tops at around 45%) the population (actually households) that owns a gun. Pretty much everyone I know owns guns, many only own 1 (though you are correct that statistically most who own, own more than one), most that I knowcarry daily. Now that we've got the personal experience bs done can we go back to compiled statistics please? I've already listed all of the applicable stats, and its all supported by multiple studies. You're vastly understating the use of guns in this country. For the last time, just google it.

Dude, the population of your entire state is less than that of Los Angeles.

Google what? Statistics on the use of guns in this country? OK, I found a wide variety of results ranging from 108,000 defensive uses annually to 1.5-2 million defensive uses annually (I'm not even counting illegal uses of guns). By comparison, if 1/3 of the population of the US (your numbers) drove a car 5 days a week that would be 26 billion car uses annually (and that's only counting them using it once during the day-when I drive to work I use the car once on the way in and once on the way home so it could easily be double that) which equates to 0.0000769 gun uses per every use of an automobile...not exactly a fair comparison now is it?

No shit. I know hundreds of people with cars but don't own a gun. And I agree that comparing guns and cars is stupid.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Many adults don't drive. Many many. I personally know only a half dozen or so, but most people I know are country/small town folk. There are only about 100,000,000 registered drivers in the US (roughly 1/3 the population). Just google it. There are also only 200,000,000 cars, and only 60% of those are registered and active. Again, just google it.

25% is on the low end of all studies I've ever seen. Most agree it's between 1/3 and 1/2 (actually tops at around 45%) the population (actually households) that owns a gun. Pretty much everyone I know owns guns, many only own 1 (though you are correct that statistically most who own, own more than one), most that I knowcarry daily. Now that we've got the personal experience bs done can we go back to compiled statistics please? I've already listed all of the applicable stats, and its all supported by multiple studies. You're vastly understating the use of guns in this country. For the last time, just google it.

Dude, the population of your entire state is less than that of Los Angeles.

Google what? Statistics on the use of guns in this country? OK, I found a wide variety of results ranging from 108,000 defensive uses annually to 1.5-2 million defensive uses annually (I'm not even counting illegal uses of guns). By comparison, if 1/3 of the population of the US (your numbers) drove a car 5 days a week that would be 26 billion car uses annually (and that's only counting them using it once during the day-when I drive to work I use the car once on the way in and once on the way home so it could easily be double that) which equates to 0.0000769 gun uses per every use of an automobile...not exactly a valid comparison now is it?

You better believe it. Why do you think I live here? America is neither defined by, nor restricted by, the handful of megacropolises...it's the other 99% of the land area that is America. LA and NY are free to break off and become free and independent city/states...it could only make the country better in the end. Sorry, not a city person.

It's really not that big of a deal, it's just the best comparison I've ever found. You can completely ignore it and the entire rest of the argument stands. Comparisons just clarify the argument, not make it.

Your argument is a load of crap btw, since you're counting each use of the car, but only counting use of the guns to prevent crimes, not the carrying of. So, I wear my gun around the house, then I wear it to the store, then I wear it around the house, then I wear it to school, then I wear it home from school, then I wear it around the house, then I wear it to my friends house, then I wear it out to dinner, then I wear it to the store, then I wear it to walk the dog around the lake, and finally I have it around the home until I go to bed. Now, how do we count that? After all, you're talking about counting each individual use of the car, not merely the ownership of the car. Well carrying my gun IS using it, so...? Do you really want to try and get this stupid about it? Again, I already said there's more driving than gun carrying, but that there are the same number of cars and guns, with each being used only by a portion of the population some of the time. It's as valid a comparison as I can find. If you have a better suggestion, I'm all ears.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Many adults don't drive. Many many. I personally know only a half dozen or so, but most people I know are country/small town folk. There are only about 100,000,000 registered drivers in the US (roughly 1/3 the population). Just google it. There are also only 200,000,000 cars, and only 60% of those are registered and active. Again, just google it.

25% is on the low end of all studies I've ever seen. Most agree it's between 1/3 and 1/2 (actually tops at around 45%) the population (actually households) that owns a gun. Pretty much everyone I know owns guns, many only own 1 (though you are correct that statistically most who own, own more than one), most that I knowcarry daily. Now that we've got the personal experience bs done can we go back to compiled statistics please? I've already listed all of the applicable stats, and its all supported by multiple studies. You're vastly understating the use of guns in this country. For the last time, just google it.

Dude, the population of your entire state is less than that of Los Angeles.

Google what? Statistics on the use of guns in this country? OK, I found a wide variety of results ranging from 108,000 defensive uses annually to 1.5-2 million defensive uses annually (I'm not even counting illegal uses of guns). By comparison, if 1/3 of the population of the US (your numbers) drove a car 5 days a week that would be 26 billion car uses annually (and that's only counting them using it once during the day-when I drive to work I use the car once on the way in and once on the way home so it could easily be double that) which equates to 0.0000769 gun uses per every use of an automobile...not exactly a valid comparison now is it?

You better believe it. Why do you think I live here? America is neither defined by, nor restricted by, the handful of megacropolises...it's the other 99% of the land area that is America. LA and NY are free to break off and become free and independent city/states...it could only make the country better in the end. Sorry, not a city person.

It's really not that big of a deal, it's just the best comparison I've ever found. You can completely ignore it and the entire rest of the argument stands. Comparisons just clarify the argument, not make it.

Your argument is a load of crap btw, since you're counting each use of the car, but only counting use of the guns to prevent crimes, not the carrying of. So, I wear my gun around the house, then I wear it to the store, then I wear it around the house, then I wear it to school, then I wear it home from school, then I wear it around the house, then I wear it to my friends house, then I wear it out to dinner, then I wear it to the store, then I wear it to walk the dog around the lake, and finally I have it around the home until I go to bed. Now, how do we count that? After all, you're talking about counting each individual use of the car, not merely the ownership of the car. Well carrying my gun IS using it, so...? Do you really want to try and get this stupid about it? Again, I already said there's more driving than gun carrying, but that there are the same number of cars and guns, with each being used only by a portion of the population some of the time. It's as valid a comparison as I can find. If you have a better suggestion, I'm all ears.

Um, I thought using it meant actually brandishing or firing it, you know, using it to prevent a crime? Not just stroking it. Don't gun owners generally base gun use by the number of rounds fired? Honestly, I think you should use that as the basis for your argument...but you'd fail that too because most uses of a firearm where bullets are actually fired are in a controlled environment, like at a shooting range.

Your comparison sucks. That is my point.

Oh, and the burden is on you to find a better suggestion. This one isn't cutting it and, quite honestly, I don't give a fuck.

Edit-Hold on a second...you wear your gun around the house?

WHAT...THE...FUCK???

Do you live in a bad area? With no doors on your house? Perhaps you're afraid your dog is going to jack your pet gerbil?

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Many adults don't drive. Many many. I personally know only a half dozen or so, but most people I know are country/small town folk. There are only about 100,000,000 registered drivers in the US (roughly 1/3 the population). Just google it. There are also only 200,000,000 cars, and only 60% of those are registered and active. Again, just google it.

25% is on the low end of all studies I've ever seen. Most agree it's between 1/3 and 1/2 (actually tops at around 45%) the population (actually households) that owns a gun. Pretty much everyone I know owns guns, many only own 1 (though you are correct that statistically most who own, own more than one), most that I knowcarry daily. Now that we've got the personal experience bs done can we go back to compiled statistics please? I've already listed all of the applicable stats, and its all supported by multiple studies. You're vastly understating the use of guns in this country. For the last time, just google it.

Dude, the population of your entire state is less than that of Los Angeles.

Google what? Statistics on the use of guns in this country? OK, I found a wide variety of results ranging from 108,000 defensive uses annually to 1.5-2 million defensive uses annually (I'm not even counting illegal uses of guns). By comparison, if 1/3 of the population of the US (your numbers) drove a car 5 days a week that would be 26 billion car uses annually (and that's only counting them using it once during the day-when I drive to work I use the car once on the way in and once on the way home so it could easily be double that) which equates to 0.0000769 gun uses per every use of an automobile...not exactly a valid comparison now is it?

You better believe it. Why do you think I live here? America is neither defined by, nor restricted by, the handful of megacropolises...it's the other 99% of the land area that is America. LA and NY are free to break off and become free and independent city/states...it could only make the country better in the end. Sorry, not a city person.

It's really not that big of a deal, it's just the best comparison I've ever found. You can completely ignore it and the entire rest of the argument stands. Comparisons just clarify the argument, not make it.

Your argument is a load of crap btw, since you're counting each use of the car, but only counting use of the guns to prevent crimes, not the carrying of. So, I wear my gun around the house, then I wear it to the store, then I wear it around the house, then I wear it to school, then I wear it home from school, then I wear it around the house, then I wear it to my friends house, then I wear it out to dinner, then I wear it to the store, then I wear it to walk the dog around the lake, and finally I have it around the home until I go to bed. Now, how do we count that? After all, you're talking about counting each individual use of the car, not merely the ownership of the car. Well carrying my gun IS using it, so...? Do you really want to try and get this stupid about it? Again, I already said there's more driving than gun carrying, but that there are the same number of cars and guns, with each being used only by a portion of the population some of the time. It's as valid a comparison as I can find. If you have a better suggestion, I'm all ears.

Um, I thought using it meant actually brandishing or firing it, you know, using it to prevent a crime? Not just stroking it. Don't gun owners generally base gun use by the number of rounds fired? Honestly, I think you should use that as the basis for your argument...but you'd fail that too because most uses of a firearm where bullets are actually fired are in a controlled environment, like at a shooting range.

Your comparison sucks. That is my point.

Oh, and the burden is on you to find a better suggestion. This one isn't cutting it and, quite honestly, I don't give a fuck.

Edit-Hold on a second...you wear your gun around the house?

WHAT...THE...FUCK???

Do you live in a bad area? With no doors on your house? Perhaps you're afraid your dog is going to jack your pet gerbil?

The statistics on gun use are about drawing it (not firing it). However, the act of carrying it, or having it nearby, is also use...just of a different type. Carrying a gun is the same as driving a car, as far as discussions of potential for accident/injury.

When I get dressed it goes on, when I get undressed it comes off. Otherwise it's on me. Period. Carrying a weapon for defense is a lifestyle, and default disposition. I train a lot to react quickly and correctly to any situation because I know I'll always be in the same situation (my sidearm in the same position, in the same condition). There's never a need to hesitate or question if my weapon is on me...it is. I don't need to remember if a round is chambered...it is. Always. It increases reaction time, and therefore survivability.

My area is very safe, but still crime happens here, and has happened to me. I've had to draw, though never fire. Had I not been armed, I would have been victimized at best (killed at worst). It was just across the street walking my dog in a very low crime area the last time. Numerous other times I was able to react instantly and correctly ONLY because I was armed, and therefore reassured of my response potential.

And before you wonder what kind of freak I am, it's a very common practice. Not everyone with a cpl carries that much, but many many do.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Many adults don't drive. Many many. I personally know only a half dozen or so, but most people I know are country/small town folk. There are only about 100,000,000 registered drivers in the US (roughly 1/3 the population). Just google it. There are also only 200,000,000 cars, and only 60% of those are registered and active. Again, just google it.

25% is on the low end of all studies I've ever seen. Most agree it's between 1/3 and 1/2 (actually tops at around 45%) the population (actually households) that owns a gun. Pretty much everyone I know owns guns, many only own 1 (though you are correct that statistically most who own, own more than one), most that I knowcarry daily. Now that we've got the personal experience bs done can we go back to compiled statistics please? I've already listed all of the applicable stats, and its all supported by multiple studies. You're vastly understating the use of guns in this country. For the last time, just google it.

Dude, the population of your entire state is less than that of Los Angeles.

Google what? Statistics on the use of guns in this country? OK, I found a wide variety of results ranging from 108,000 defensive uses annually to 1.5-2 million defensive uses annually (I'm not even counting illegal uses of guns). By comparison, if 1/3 of the population of the US (your numbers) drove a car 5 days a week that would be 26 billion car uses annually (and that's only counting them using it once during the day-when I drive to work I use the car once on the way in and once on the way home so it could easily be double that) which equates to 0.0000769 gun uses per every use of an automobile...not exactly a valid comparison now is it?

You better believe it. Why do you think I live here? America is neither defined by, nor restricted by, the handful of megacropolises...it's the other 99% of the land area that is America. LA and NY are free to break off and become free and independent city/states...it could only make the country better in the end. Sorry, not a city person.

It's really not that big of a deal, it's just the best comparison I've ever found. You can completely ignore it and the entire rest of the argument stands. Comparisons just clarify the argument, not make it.

Your argument is a load of crap btw, since you're counting each use of the car, but only counting use of the guns to prevent crimes, not the carrying of. So, I wear my gun around the house, then I wear it to the store, then I wear it around the house, then I wear it to school, then I wear it home from school, then I wear it around the house, then I wear it to my friends house, then I wear it out to dinner, then I wear it to the store, then I wear it to walk the dog around the lake, and finally I have it around the home until I go to bed. Now, how do we count that? After all, you're talking about counting each individual use of the car, not merely the ownership of the car. Well carrying my gun IS using it, so...? Do you really want to try and get this stupid about it? Again, I already said there's more driving than gun carrying, but that there are the same number of cars and guns, with each being used only by a portion of the population some of the time. It's as valid a comparison as I can find. If you have a better suggestion, I'm all ears.

Um, I thought using it meant actually brandishing or firing it, you know, using it to prevent a crime? Not just stroking it. Don't gun owners generally base gun use by the number of rounds fired? Honestly, I think you should use that as the basis for your argument...but you'd fail that too because most uses of a firearm where bullets are actually fired are in a controlled environment, like at a shooting range.

Your comparison sucks. That is my point.

Oh, and the burden is on you to find a better suggestion. This one isn't cutting it and, quite honestly, I don't give a fuck.

Edit-Hold on a second...you wear your gun around the house?

WHAT...THE...FUCK???

Do you live in a bad area? With no doors on your house? Perhaps you're afraid your dog is going to jack your pet gerbil?

The statistics on gun use are about drawing it (not firing it). However, the act of carrying it, or having it nearby, is also use...just of a different type. Carrying a gun is the same as driving a car, as far as discussions of potential for accident/injury.

When I get dressed it goes on, when I get undressed it comes off. Otherwise it's on me. Period. Carrying a weapon for defense is a lifestyle, and default disposition. I train a lot to react quickly and correctly to any situation because I know I'll always be in the same situation (my sidearm in the same position, in the same condition). There's never a need to hesitate or question if my weapon is on me...it is. I don't need to remember if a round is chambered...it is. Always. It increases reaction time, and therefore survivability.

My area is very safe, but still crime happens here, and has happened to me. I've had to draw, though never fire. Had I not been armed, I would have been victimized at best (killed at worst). It was just across the street walking my dog in a very low crime area the last time. Numerous other times I was able to react instantly and correctly ONLY because I was armed, and therefore reassured of my response potential.

And before you wonder what kind of freak I am, it's a very common practice. Not everyone with a cpl carries that much, but many many do.

I'm not going to go there. :laugh:

BTW-You pointing out the number of auto accidents brings up another interesting thought. If guns really were used as much as automobiles, and you've said absolutely nothing to lead me to believe that they are used anywhere near as much as automobiles, I'd bet we'd see a large increase in gun related accidents and deaths.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Many adults don't drive. Many many. I personally know only a half dozen or so, but most people I know are country/small town folk. There are only about 100,000,000 registered drivers in the US (roughly 1/3 the population). Just google it. There are also only 200,000,000 cars, and only 60% of those are registered and active. Again, just google it.

25% is on the low end of all studies I've ever seen. Most agree it's between 1/3 and 1/2 (actually tops at around 45%) the population (actually households) that owns a gun. Pretty much everyone I know owns guns, many only own 1 (though you are correct that statistically most who own, own more than one), most that I knowcarry daily. Now that we've got the personal experience bs done can we go back to compiled statistics please? I've already listed all of the applicable stats, and its all supported by multiple studies. You're vastly understating the use of guns in this country. For the last time, just google it.

Dude, the population of your entire state is less than that of Los Angeles.

Google what? Statistics on the use of guns in this country? OK, I found a wide variety of results ranging from 108,000 defensive uses annually to 1.5-2 million defensive uses annually (I'm not even counting illegal uses of guns). By comparison, if 1/3 of the population of the US (your numbers) drove a car 5 days a week that would be 26 billion car uses annually (and that's only counting them using it once during the day-when I drive to work I use the car once on the way in and once on the way home so it could easily be double that) which equates to 0.0000769 gun uses per every use of an automobile...not exactly a valid comparison now is it?

You better believe it. Why do you think I live here? America is neither defined by, nor restricted by, the handful of megacropolises...it's the other 99% of the land area that is America. LA and NY are free to break off and become free and independent city/states...it could only make the country better in the end. Sorry, not a city person.

It's really not that big of a deal, it's just the best comparison I've ever found. You can completely ignore it and the entire rest of the argument stands. Comparisons just clarify the argument, not make it.

Your argument is a load of crap btw, since you're counting each use of the car, but only counting use of the guns to prevent crimes, not the carrying of. So, I wear my gun around the house, then I wear it to the store, then I wear it around the house, then I wear it to school, then I wear it home from school, then I wear it around the house, then I wear it to my friends house, then I wear it out to dinner, then I wear it to the store, then I wear it to walk the dog around the lake, and finally I have it around the home until I go to bed. Now, how do we count that? After all, you're talking about counting each individual use of the car, not merely the ownership of the car. Well carrying my gun IS using it, so...? Do you really want to try and get this stupid about it? Again, I already said there's more driving than gun carrying, but that there are the same number of cars and guns, with each being used only by a portion of the population some of the time. It's as valid a comparison as I can find. If you have a better suggestion, I'm all ears.

Um, I thought using it meant actually brandishing or firing it, you know, using it to prevent a crime? Not just stroking it. Don't gun owners generally base gun use by the number of rounds fired? Honestly, I think you should use that as the basis for your argument...but you'd fail that too because most uses of a firearm where bullets are actually fired are in a controlled environment, like at a shooting range.

Your comparison sucks. That is my point.

Oh, and the burden is on you to find a better suggestion. This one isn't cutting it and, quite honestly, I don't give a fuck.

Edit-Hold on a second...you wear your gun around the house?

WHAT...THE...FUCK???

Do you live in a bad area? With no doors on your house? Perhaps you're afraid your dog is going to jack your pet gerbil?

The statistics on gun use are about drawing it (not firing it). However, the act of carrying it, or having it nearby, is also use...just of a different type. Carrying a gun is the same as driving a car, as far as discussions of potential for accident/injury.

When I get dressed it goes on, when I get undressed it comes off. Otherwise it's on me. Period. Carrying a weapon for defense is a lifestyle, and default disposition. I train a lot to react quickly and correctly to any situation because I know I'll always be in the same situation (my sidearm in the same position, in the same condition). There's never a need to hesitate or question if my weapon is on me...it is. I don't need to remember if a round is chambered...it is. Always. It increases reaction time, and therefore survivability.

My area is very safe, but still crime happens here, and has happened to me. I've had to draw, though never fire. Had I not been armed, I would have been victimized at best (killed at worst). It was just across the street walking my dog in a very low crime area the last time. Numerous other times I was able to react instantly and correctly ONLY because I was armed, and therefore reassured of my response potential.

And before you wonder what kind of freak I am, it's a very common practice. Not everyone with a cpl carries that much, but many many do.

I'm not going to go there. :laugh:

BTW-You pointing out the number of auto accidents brings up another interesting thought. If guns really were used as much as automobiles, and you've said absolutely nothing to lead me to believe that they are used anywhere near as much as automobiles, I'd bet we'd see a large increase in gun related accidents and deaths.

*shrug* no way to judge that one except to do it and see. Very few accidents in Israel, with far more gun carry/use per capita, so there's some minor indication that it could be fine. Then again, Americans aren't as bright as Israelis, so who knows.

Bottom line is it isn't much of a problem now, especially compared to the enormous good they do. That's what this whole thing was really about.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Many adults don't drive. Many many. I personally know only a half dozen or so, but most people I know are country/small town folk. There are only about 100,000,000 registered drivers in the US (roughly 1/3 the population). Just google it. There are also only 200,000,000 cars, and only 60% of those are registered and active. Again, just google it.

25% is on the low end of all studies I've ever seen. Most agree it's between 1/3 and 1/2 (actually tops at around 45%) the population (actually households) that owns a gun. Pretty much everyone I know owns guns, many only own 1 (though you are correct that statistically most who own, own more than one), most that I knowcarry daily. Now that we've got the personal experience bs done can we go back to compiled statistics please? I've already listed all of the applicable stats, and its all supported by multiple studies. You're vastly understating the use of guns in this country. For the last time, just google it.

Dude, the population of your entire state is less than that of Los Angeles.

Google what? Statistics on the use of guns in this country? OK, I found a wide variety of results ranging from 108,000 defensive uses annually to 1.5-2 million defensive uses annually (I'm not even counting illegal uses of guns). By comparison, if 1/3 of the population of the US (your numbers) drove a car 5 days a week that would be 26 billion car uses annually (and that's only counting them using it once during the day-when I drive to work I use the car once on the way in and once on the way home so it could easily be double that) which equates to 0.0000769 gun uses per every use of an automobile...not exactly a valid comparison now is it?

You better believe it. Why do you think I live here? America is neither defined by, nor restricted by, the handful of megacropolises...it's the other 99% of the land area that is America. LA and NY are free to break off and become free and independent city/states...it could only make the country better in the end. Sorry, not a city person.

It's really not that big of a deal, it's just the best comparison I've ever found. You can completely ignore it and the entire rest of the argument stands. Comparisons just clarify the argument, not make it.

Your argument is a load of crap btw, since you're counting each use of the car, but only counting use of the guns to prevent crimes, not the carrying of. So, I wear my gun around the house, then I wear it to the store, then I wear it around the house, then I wear it to school, then I wear it home from school, then I wear it around the house, then I wear it to my friends house, then I wear it out to dinner, then I wear it to the store, then I wear it to walk the dog around the lake, and finally I have it around the home until I go to bed. Now, how do we count that? After all, you're talking about counting each individual use of the car, not merely the ownership of the car. Well carrying my gun IS using it, so...? Do you really want to try and get this stupid about it? Again, I already said there's more driving than gun carrying, but that there are the same number of cars and guns, with each being used only by a portion of the population some of the time. It's as valid a comparison as I can find. If you have a better suggestion, I'm all ears.

Um, I thought using it meant actually brandishing or firing it, you know, using it to prevent a crime? Not just stroking it. Don't gun owners generally base gun use by the number of rounds fired? Honestly, I think you should use that as the basis for your argument...but you'd fail that too because most uses of a firearm where bullets are actually fired are in a controlled environment, like at a shooting range.

Your comparison sucks. That is my point.

Oh, and the burden is on you to find a better suggestion. This one isn't cutting it and, quite honestly, I don't give a fuck.

Edit-Hold on a second...you wear your gun around the house?

WHAT...THE...FUCK???

Do you live in a bad area? With no doors on your house? Perhaps you're afraid your dog is going to jack your pet gerbil?

The statistics on gun use are about drawing it (not firing it). However, the act of carrying it, or having it nearby, is also use...just of a different type. Carrying a gun is the same as driving a car, as far as discussions of potential for accident/injury.

When I get dressed it goes on, when I get undressed it comes off. Otherwise it's on me. Period. Carrying a weapon for defense is a lifestyle, and default disposition. I train a lot to react quickly and correctly to any situation because I know I'll always be in the same situation (my sidearm in the same position, in the same condition). There's never a need to hesitate or question if my weapon is on me...it is. I don't need to remember if a round is chambered...it is. Always. It increases reaction time, and therefore survivability.

My area is very safe, but still crime happens here, and has happened to me. I've had to draw, though never fire. Had I not been armed, I would have been victimized at best (killed at worst). It was just across the street walking my dog in a very low crime area the last time. Numerous other times I was able to react instantly and correctly ONLY because I was armed, and therefore reassured of my response potential.

And before you wonder what kind of freak I am, it's a very common practice. Not everyone with a cpl carries that much, but many many do.

I'm not going to go there. :laugh:

BTW-You pointing out the number of auto accidents brings up another interesting thought. If guns really were used as much as automobiles, and you've said absolutely nothing to lead me to believe that they are used anywhere near as much as automobiles, I'd bet we'd see a large increase in gun related accidents and deaths.

*shrug* no way to judge that one except to do it and see. Very few accidents in Israel, with far more gun carry/use per capita, so there's some minor indication that it could be fine. Then again, Americans aren't as bright as Israelis, so who knows.

Bottom line is it isn't much of a problem now, especially compared to the enormous good they do. That's what this whole thing was really about.

Very few accidents...lots of bombings. Yeah, I'd love to live in Israel...:roll:

 

[everman]

I don't know where you live, but your options may be influenced on whether you can get a CCW (concealed weapons permit); it's easy in some places, impossible in others, so look into it. Personally I'd go for an HK P2000sk in .357sig. You can switch out the barrel with .40 if you want to practice with cheaper ammo. Get an xgrip to make the grip a bit larger and hold larger mags.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Many adults don't drive. Many many. I personally know only a half dozen or so, but most people I know are country/small town folk. There are only about 100,000,000 registered drivers in the US (roughly 1/3 the population). Just google it. There are also only 200,000,000 cars, and only 60% of those are registered and active. Again, just google it.

25% is on the low end of all studies I've ever seen. Most agree it's between 1/3 and 1/2 (actually tops at around 45%) the population (actually households) that owns a gun. Pretty much everyone I know owns guns, many only own 1 (though you are correct that statistically most who own, own more than one), most that I knowcarry daily. Now that we've got the personal experience bs done can we go back to compiled statistics please? I've already listed all of the applicable stats, and its all supported by multiple studies. You're vastly understating the use of guns in this country. For the last time, just google it.

Dude, the population of your entire state is less than that of Los Angeles.

Google what? Statistics on the use of guns in this country? OK, I found a wide variety of results ranging from 108,000 defensive uses annually to 1.5-2 million defensive uses annually (I'm not even counting illegal uses of guns). By comparison, if 1/3 of the population of the US (your numbers) drove a car 5 days a week that would be 26 billion car uses annually (and that's only counting them using it once during the day-when I drive to work I use the car once on the way in and once on the way home so it could easily be double that) which equates to 0.0000769 gun uses per every use of an automobile...not exactly a valid comparison now is it?

You better believe it. Why do you think I live here? America is neither defined by, nor restricted by, the handful of megacropolises...it's the other 99% of the land area that is America. LA and NY are free to break off and become free and independent city/states...it could only make the country better in the end. Sorry, not a city person.

It's really not that big of a deal, it's just the best comparison I've ever found. You can completely ignore it and the entire rest of the argument stands. Comparisons just clarify the argument, not make it.

Your argument is a load of crap btw, since you're counting each use of the car, but only counting use of the guns to prevent crimes, not the carrying of. So, I wear my gun around the house, then I wear it to the store, then I wear it around the house, then I wear it to school, then I wear it home from school, then I wear it around the house, then I wear it to my friends house, then I wear it out to dinner, then I wear it to the store, then I wear it to walk the dog around the lake, and finally I have it around the home until I go to bed. Now, how do we count that? After all, you're talking about counting each individual use of the car, not merely the ownership of the car. Well carrying my gun IS using it, so...? Do you really want to try and get this stupid about it? Again, I already said there's more driving than gun carrying, but that there are the same number of cars and guns, with each being used only by a portion of the population some of the time. It's as valid a comparison as I can find. If you have a better suggestion, I'm all ears.

Um, I thought using it meant actually brandishing or firing it, you know, using it to prevent a crime? Not just stroking it. Don't gun owners generally base gun use by the number of rounds fired? Honestly, I think you should use that as the basis for your argument...but you'd fail that too because most uses of a firearm where bullets are actually fired are in a controlled environment, like at a shooting range.

Your comparison sucks. That is my point.

Oh, and the burden is on you to find a better suggestion. This one isn't cutting it and, quite honestly, I don't give a fuck.

Edit-Hold on a second...you wear your gun around the house?

WHAT...THE...FUCK???

Do you live in a bad area? With no doors on your house? Perhaps you're afraid your dog is going to jack your pet gerbil?

The statistics on gun use are about drawing it (not firing it). However, the act of carrying it, or having it nearby, is also use...just of a different type. Carrying a gun is the same as driving a car, as far as discussions of potential for accident/injury.

When I get dressed it goes on, when I get undressed it comes off. Otherwise it's on me. Period. Carrying a weapon for defense is a lifestyle, and default disposition. I train a lot to react quickly and correctly to any situation because I know I'll always be in the same situation (my sidearm in the same position, in the same condition). There's never a need to hesitate or question if my weapon is on me...it is. I don't need to remember if a round is chambered...it is. Always. It increases reaction time, and therefore survivability.

My area is very safe, but still crime happens here, and has happened to me. I've had to draw, though never fire. Had I not been armed, I would have been victimized at best (killed at worst). It was just across the street walking my dog in a very low crime area the last time. Numerous other times I was able to react instantly and correctly ONLY because I was armed, and therefore reassured of my response potential.

And before you wonder what kind of freak I am, it's a very common practice. Not everyone with a cpl carries that much, but many many do.

I'm not going to go there. :laugh:

BTW-You pointing out the number of auto accidents brings up another interesting thought. If guns really were used as much as automobiles, and you've said absolutely nothing to lead me to believe that they are used anywhere near as much as automobiles, I'd bet we'd see a large increase in gun related accidents and deaths.

*shrug* no way to judge that one except to do it and see. Very few accidents in Israel, with far more gun carry/use per capita, so there's some minor indication that it could be fine. Then again, Americans aren't as bright as Israelis, so who knows.

Bottom line is it isn't much of a problem now, especially compared to the enormous good they do. That's what this whole thing was really about.

Very few accidents...lots of bombings. Yeah, I'd love to live in Israel...:roll:

No one said anything about living in Israel, but way to completely disregard a point.

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
LA and NY are free to break off and become free and independent city/states...it could only make the country better in the end.

kind of an oxymoron don't you think?

 

[Deleted member 4644]

There is absolutely, positively, no doubt that there are far, far far more man-hours put into driving than gun-handling in the US every day/week/year.

That said, I don't think we should outlaw the guns that are legal now, I just don't think every man woman and child out there should have one either.

Like most things, moderation.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

*shrug* no way to judge that one except to do it and see. Very few accidents in Israel, with far more gun carry/use per capita, so there's some minor indication that it could be fine. Then again, Americans aren't as bright as Israelis, so who knows.

Bottom line is it isn't much of a problem now, especially compared to the enormous good they do. That's what this whole thing was really about.

I am more inclined to believe the whole Middle East is better trained at weapons than North America. They do have a more pressing need for it. If everyone in North America is as well trained on weapons, there would be far less accidental gun deaths. That is the only problem I have with guns, the irresponsible owners that allow tragedies to happen.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: bob4432

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
LA and NY are free to break off and become free and independent city/states...it could only make the country better in the end.

kind of an oxymoron don't you think?

I think his definition of free includes no gay rights and no economy.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: theblackbox
glock is by far the best small pistol for self defense. the big advantage is the fact that it is one of the few pistols that can be drawn and fired without the worry of a safety or having to cock the pistol like a revolver. glock has also improved the safety of the holstered pistol, making it safe all the way around.
any of the subcompacts, the g26(9mm), g27(40),g30(45),g31(357), g32(357 magnum) are all great pistols. i would recommend the g26 over the others for control and capacity. using a standard mag with the handle extender, you get a very capable pistol for self defense at close range, and reliability. while the bigger caliber pistols have more stopping power, they offer less control for an inexperienced shooter.
The 26 is also a very easy pistol to conceal. even with the standard mag you get 10+1 shots. It is more then enough of a detterent for wildlife, and very capable as a deterrent for the human kind too.

How the hell did no one catch this??

Almost every modern firearm can be drawn and fired without having to worry about a safety or cocking it. Theres very few single action pistols out there.

As for the G32, its not a 357 magnum. Theres only 1 semi auto 357 mag that I know of and thats the Desert Eagle. And none of those glocks would I want to take up against a mountain lion or bear.

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: theblackbox
glock is by far the best small pistol for self defense. the big advantage is the fact that it is one of the few pistols that can be drawn and fired without the worry of a safety or having to cock the pistol like a revolver. glock has also improved the safety of the holstered pistol, making it safe all the way around.
any of the subcompacts, the g26(9mm), g27(40),g30(45),g31(357), g32(357 magnum) are all great pistols. i would recommend the g26 over the others for control and capacity. using a standard mag with the handle extender, you get a very capable pistol for self defense at close range, and reliability. while the bigger caliber pistols have more stopping power, they offer less control for an inexperienced shooter.
The 26 is also a very easy pistol to conceal. even with the standard mag you get 10+1 shots. It is more then enough of a detterent for wildlife, and very capable as a deterrent for the human kind too.

How the hell did no one catch this??

Almost every modern firearm can be drawn and fired without having to worry about a safety or cocking it. Theres very few single action pistols out there.

As for the G32, its not a 357 magnum. Theres only 1 semi auto 357 mag that I know of and thats the Desert Eagle. And none of those glocks would I want to take up against a mountain lion or bear.

i think people didn't say anything because glocks are pretty simple in that area, load a mag, chamber it, holster it and nothing to else to mess with. others may have copied their design, but a glock is a glock.

the g32 is in 357sig - a necked down 40s&w trying to duplicate the ballistics of 357magnum, which it does not due. i am really surprised that a new cartridge was born when they could have probably got similar ballistics from 9mm +P / +P+ since the 357sig is 9x21

as for the de, definately not a small hands weapon.

OP - have you looked at the fn 5.7? see how it feels in your hand. the have 20rnd (in the free states) mags, have a very potent round and from what i have read don't have much recoil (haven't shot one myself as i don't know anybody locally that owns one and the indoor range i go to doesn't rent one). they are a bit expensive, but you do get a lot for your $$$ w/ the 5.7x28 rnd.

if none of these work, look at some single stack 45 or 9mm setups. to me, nothing feels better in my hand than a 1911 (gun wise).

also, take ammo costs into account since you are going to go to the range as much as you claim - 9mm is usually less than 1/2 the price of 45, around ~1/3 the price of 10mm, etc. and don't expect ammo to get cheaper either w/ obama coming into office.

 

[Chunkee]

I just ordered the new Springfield .40 XDm - Black on Black

jC