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Gun Fight

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Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: DerwenArtos12
40 yards with light armor. I will change my vote to a 232. I have seen a hollow point 232 blow apart a concrete block at about 100 yards. We acidentally got a couple military issue teflon coated ones and they went through the concrete block before the hollow points blew it up.
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It's not difficult to break up a concrete block with a bullet. .223 is a very small round just slightly larger than .22 long rifle but moving much much faster. I wouldn't make a choice like this based on what you saw a round do to a block of concrete which is very easy to break up. Actually, your choice isn't a bad one...just your reasoning is. I doubt .223 would penetrate body armor though. You would do well to aim for a headshot.
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Good 223 AP rounds will go through armor pretty well at 40 yards. It wont go through a Class 4 on the first round, obviously, but I think most SWAT squads wear Class 3 at the most, not Class 4.
 
Originally posted by: Mookow
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: DerwenArtos12
40 yards with light armor. I will change my vote to a 232. I have seen a hollow point 232 blow apart a concrete block at about 100 yards. We acidentally got a couple military issue teflon coated ones and they went through the concrete block before the hollow points blew it up.
Click to expand...

It's not difficult to break up a concrete block with a bullet. .223 is a very small round just slightly larger than .22 long rifle but moving much much faster. I wouldn't make a choice like this based on what you saw a round do to a block of concrete which is very easy to break up. Actually, your choice isn't a bad one...just your reasoning is. I doubt .223 would penetrate body armor though. You would do well to aim for a headshot.
Click to expand...

Good 223 AP rounds will go through armor pretty well at 40 yards. It wont go through a Class 4 on the first round, obviously, but I think most SWAT squads wear Class 3 at the most, not Class 4.
Click to expand...

The doormen on our decentralized ERT teams routinely wear level IV vests when serving no knock search warrants.

 
Originally posted by: tnitsuj
Originally posted by: Mookow
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: DerwenArtos12
40 yards with light armor. I will change my vote to a 232. I have seen a hollow point 232 blow apart a concrete block at about 100 yards. We acidentally got a couple military issue teflon coated ones and they went through the concrete block before the hollow points blew it up.
Click to expand...

It's not difficult to break up a concrete block with a bullet. .223 is a very small round just slightly larger than .22 long rifle but moving much much faster. I wouldn't make a choice like this based on what you saw a round do to a block of concrete which is very easy to break up. Actually, your choice isn't a bad one...just your reasoning is. I doubt .223 would penetrate body armor though. You would do well to aim for a headshot.
Click to expand...

Good 223 AP rounds will go through armor pretty well at 40 yards. It wont go through a Class 4 on the first round, obviously, but I think most SWAT squads wear Class 3 at the most, not Class 4.
Click to expand...

The doormen on our decentralized ERT teams routinely wear level IV vests when serving no knock search warrants.
Click to expand...

Of the officers there for the warrant, how many are wearing class 4, and what are the others wearing (and how many are there not wearing level 4)?
 
Originally posted by: Mookow
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: DerwenArtos12
40 yards with light armor. I will change my vote to a 232. I have seen a hollow point 232 blow apart a concrete block at about 100 yards. We acidentally got a couple military issue teflon coated ones and they went through the concrete block before the hollow points blew it up.
Click to expand...

It's not difficult to break up a concrete block with a bullet. .223 is a very small round just slightly larger than .22 long rifle but moving much much faster. I wouldn't make a choice like this based on what you saw a round do to a block of concrete which is very easy to break up. Actually, your choice isn't a bad one...just your reasoning is. I doubt .223 would penetrate body armor though. You would do well to aim for a headshot.
Click to expand...

Good 223 AP rounds will go through armor pretty well at 40 yards. It wont go through a Class 4 on the first round, obviously, but I think most SWAT squads wear Class 3 at the most, not Class 4.
Click to expand...

Are you kidding? from 40 yards you put a not teflon coated bullet through inch thick lexan. And my point about making the block explode was that the rounds are so small I would expect even the holow points to go right through the block, considering their muzzle velocity. You could pretty easily go through a riot shield and through a class 4 vest from 40 yards with teflon coated bullets in a 223. And though they are illegal if you go buy a 100 pack of 223 non-hollow point you are almost gaurinteed to get a couple as the same company make the coated and non-coated.
 
Your all missing the key point you aiming at kevlar. Kevlar is very susceptable to cutting so the best weapon would be the 6 shot disposable underwater speargun that the navy seals use (although you might need to get a little closer). When I worked in EOD (explosive ordanance disposal) I had one I took apart, neat little things designed to punctures divers air cylinders.
 
Originally posted by: DerwenArtos12
Originally posted by: Mookow
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: DerwenArtos12
40 yards with light armor. I will change my vote to a 232. I have seen a hollow point 232 blow apart a concrete block at about 100 yards. We acidentally got a couple military issue teflon coated ones and they went through the concrete block before the hollow points blew it up.
Click to expand...

It's not difficult to break up a concrete block with a bullet. .223 is a very small round just slightly larger than .22 long rifle but moving much much faster. I wouldn't make a choice like this based on what you saw a round do to a block of concrete which is very easy to break up. Actually, your choice isn't a bad one...just your reasoning is. I doubt .223 would penetrate body armor though. You would do well to aim for a headshot.
Click to expand...

Good 223 AP rounds will go through armor pretty well at 40 yards. It wont go through a Class 4 on the first round, obviously, but I think most SWAT squads wear Class 3 at the most, not Class 4.
Click to expand...

Are you kidding? from 40 yards you put a not teflon coated bullet through inch thick lexan. And my point about making the block explode was that the rounds are so small I would expect even the holow points to go right through the block, considering their muzzle velocity. You could pretty easily go through a riot shield and through a class 4 vest from 40 yards with teflon coated bullets in a 223. And though they are illegal if you go buy a 100 pack of 223 non-hollow point you are almost gaurinteed to get a couple as the same company make the coated and non-coated.
Click to expand...

Do you know what Level 4 body armor is spec-ed for? Stopping a 7.62 NATO AP round. And, lets not forget, it has already been established that teflon coating by itself does nothing. So teflon coated AP bullets and ball bullets do not have the same internal composition, and it is EXTREMELY unlikely that you'll get some AP rounds mixed in when you buy a box of target rounds in 5.56mm. Like buying a Civic and the dealer giving you an S2000.

When you punch a hole through concrete the thickness of a cinder block's walls, it tends to make cracks, which on a object the length and height of the block, means the cinder block falls apart.

On a side note, if you really want to see 223 bullets make big holes, get an AR-15 with a barrel with the old twist rate, and some rounds manufactered for the new twist rate. About 90 yards downrange, the bullets are going sideways. It takes a few rounds to make a hit since, obviously, a bullet going sideways isnt going to be accurate, but it produces impressive results.
 
You could pretty easily go through a riot shield and through a class 4 vest from 40 yards with teflon coated bullets in a 223. And though they are illegal if you go buy a 100 pack of 223 non-hollow point you are almost gaurinteed to get a couple as the same company make the coated and non-coated.
Click to expand...
I said it before and I'll say it again, teflon coating has no effect on penetration.
 
I said it before and I'll say it again, teflon coating has no effect on penetration.
Click to expand...

Thats not 100% accurate, teflon can help penetration through increased muzzle velocity and free air velocity, but only minute amounts 1% or less.
 
Originally posted by: Mingon
I said it before and I'll say it again, teflon coating has no effect on penetration.
Click to expand...

Thats not 100% accurate, teflon can help penetration through increased muzzle velocity and free air velocity, but only minute amounts 1% or less.
Click to expand...
Ok, I revert to my original statement: Very little or no penetration. Na na na na na-na 😛
 
Originally posted by: Jmmsbnd007
And though they are illegal if you go buy a 100 pack of 223 non-hollow point you are almost gaurinteed to get a couple as the same company make the coated and non-coated.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is about as likely as the Civic/S2000 analogy above. I've bought loads of .223 and none of the rounds were ever anything but what was stated on the box. No ammo company would make a mistake like this. It's about as likely as you going to McDonalds, ordering a cheeseburger and they give you Beef Wellington.
 
Originally posted by: Munchies
Originally posted by: oSReApEr
Originally posted by: DainBramaged
Barrett .50 cal. Deagle.

Game over.
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If you were to fire the barrett incorrectly u run the risk of fracturing your sholder or breaking your collar bone, and a Desert Eagle .50 cal can fracture ur wrist if not help properly (Its very heavy). Thos weapons are overkill lol and the .50 AE is very inaccurate due to extrodinary recoil. The Barret .50 BMG is very bad in an urban situation due to its brute power. It would rip through your target and possible go through a few layers of brick inflicting death/injury to civilans 🙁
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Barrets can't crack your shoulder unless your a 4 foot pasty geek girl. They incorporate a MASSIVE mussle brake, thats why they have such a large flash. They have the recoil of a 12 gauge on fulll choke. Ive never heard of anyone cracking their shoulder
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My bad i meant DISLOCATE your arm to your sholder.
 
Also the comment i made about the .50 AE was information i got from a range owner out in Long Island NY. He told me that whenever he sees people with .50 deagles they shoot badly do to the caliber size so none if this info is from my actual experience w/ the gun. My bad🙁
 
Originally posted by: oSReApEr
Also the comment i made about the .50 AE was information i got from a range owner out in Long Island NY. He told me that whenever he sees people with .50 deagles they shoot badly do to the caliber size so none if this info is from my actual experience w/ the gun. My bad🙁
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If so, its not the gun's accuracy at fault, but the people firing it (who usually fall into two groups: people that collect guns and wanted something different to add to their collection, and people who have no idea WTF they are doing when it comes to firearms). They are probably anticipating the recoil/flinching and screwing up their aim that way.
 
Same as what i would choose for any all-purpose mission, a Sig Sauer 229 and a short-barreled .270 Winchester. Might also substitute a Detectives Special revolver for the sidearm.
 
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