IGBT
Lifer
- Jul 16, 2001
- 17,949
- 133
- 106
The Ruger 10/22 is a fully suppressed 0.22 caliber semi auto sniper rifle with a 10 rounds rotary magazine.
In 1987, the Intifada - the Palestinian uprising against the Israeli regime in the Occupied Territories - broke out, and involved mass violent clashes between Israeli security forces and Palestinians protestors. As a result, the Israeli security forces needed a weapon with a more potent firepower then the standard riot control metal covered rubber round, but at the same time less lethal then the standard issue 5.56 mm round of the M16/Galil assault rifles. So the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) searched for a 0.22 caliber accurate rifle that will be used to take out the key protest leaders by shooting them in the legs.
The Ruger 10/22, fitted with a X4 day optic, a full length suppressor and a Harris bipod was selected for this role and was due to be issued to all infantry oriented units, including both special and conventional forces. However, as often happens in the shoestring budget IDF, financial problems prevented the weapon's mass distribution, and it was mainly issued to Special Forces (SF) units. Moreover, instead of using the rifle as a riot control weapon, as originally intended, the Israeli SF deployed the Ruger 10/22 more as a "Hush Puppy" weapon used to silently and effectively eliminate disturbing dogs prior to operations.
In the recent Israeli-Palestinian clashes began in 2000, the Ruger resumes it's original role as a less lethal riot control weapon. However, it's usage in this role was rather controversial this time. After several incidents involving the death of Palestinians by the Ruger fire, the IDF conducted a field experiment in the Ruger at the IDF Sniper School in Mitkan Adam under the supervision of the IDF Judge Advocate General (JAG). The test showed that the Ruger was more lethal then thought especially in upper body injuries. Also, since it's suppressed and was considered less lethal by the troops, the soldiers were much more likely to use the Ruger loosely then intended.
As a result of this test, the JAG reclassified the Ruger as a lethal weapon. As a lethal weapon, the usage of the Ruger in riot control is much more limited today. In the IDF Center Command it was completely prohibited to use and the IDF South Command it's deployment was cut down dramatically.
Text
In 1987, the Intifada - the Palestinian uprising against the Israeli regime in the Occupied Territories - broke out, and involved mass violent clashes between Israeli security forces and Palestinians protestors. As a result, the Israeli security forces needed a weapon with a more potent firepower then the standard riot control metal covered rubber round, but at the same time less lethal then the standard issue 5.56 mm round of the M16/Galil assault rifles. So the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) searched for a 0.22 caliber accurate rifle that will be used to take out the key protest leaders by shooting them in the legs.
The Ruger 10/22, fitted with a X4 day optic, a full length suppressor and a Harris bipod was selected for this role and was due to be issued to all infantry oriented units, including both special and conventional forces. However, as often happens in the shoestring budget IDF, financial problems prevented the weapon's mass distribution, and it was mainly issued to Special Forces (SF) units. Moreover, instead of using the rifle as a riot control weapon, as originally intended, the Israeli SF deployed the Ruger 10/22 more as a "Hush Puppy" weapon used to silently and effectively eliminate disturbing dogs prior to operations.
In the recent Israeli-Palestinian clashes began in 2000, the Ruger resumes it's original role as a less lethal riot control weapon. However, it's usage in this role was rather controversial this time. After several incidents involving the death of Palestinians by the Ruger fire, the IDF conducted a field experiment in the Ruger at the IDF Sniper School in Mitkan Adam under the supervision of the IDF Judge Advocate General (JAG). The test showed that the Ruger was more lethal then thought especially in upper body injuries. Also, since it's suppressed and was considered less lethal by the troops, the soldiers were much more likely to use the Ruger loosely then intended.
As a result of this test, the JAG reclassified the Ruger as a lethal weapon. As a lethal weapon, the usage of the Ruger in riot control is much more limited today. In the IDF Center Command it was completely prohibited to use and the IDF South Command it's deployment was cut down dramatically.
Text
sao123
Lifer
- May 27, 2002
- 12,648
- 201
- 106
A 22 likely wont stop anyone who is trying to harm you... and If you intend to do any hunting of any type, a 22 is practically useless... The only real purpose for a 22, is training/target shooting.
I usually recommend a .270 Rifle, as it is the all-purpose hunting rifle. (large game, ground hogs)
Also, the 20 or 12 Guage shotguns are the best for home protection, and also still useful for all purpose hunting. (Small Game, Fowl, and Slugs)
Handguns are probably the best for personal self defense, as you can carry them anywhere, and are small enough to be consealed.
The thompson contender might be a good choice for you, as you can get a rifle caliber shot in a 12 inch barrel rifle. They have interchangable barrels, so you can transport it in a broken down state. The only thing is, they take lots of practice to master shooting, because of the high recoil...
I usually recommend a .270 Rifle, as it is the all-purpose hunting rifle. (large game, ground hogs)
Also, the 20 or 12 Guage shotguns are the best for home protection, and also still useful for all purpose hunting. (Small Game, Fowl, and Slugs)
Handguns are probably the best for personal self defense, as you can carry them anywhere, and are small enough to be consealed.
The thompson contender might be a good choice for you, as you can get a rifle caliber shot in a 12 inch barrel rifle. They have interchangable barrels, so you can transport it in a broken down state. The only thing is, they take lots of practice to master shooting, because of the high recoil...
sao123
Lifer
- May 27, 2002
- 12,648
- 201
- 106
Consider this then... if this really is for self defense...
When the sh1t hits the fan you are going to be scared as hell, trying to aim, maintain concentration, and hit a moving target with the 2nd smallest bullet you could possibly use...
you should really just get a shotgun.
edro
Lifer
- Apr 5, 2002
- 24,328
- 68
- 91
There are two names when it comes to affordable, accurate, durable .22s.
Ruger and Marlin
You have narrowed down their two most popular series', so just pick the one that you like the feel of the most.
Go to the store and pull each up to your cheek and see which one you like the most.
Then, choose the metal that you like the most (I prefer stainless myself).
You can't go wrong with the 10/22 or the Papoose.
If you can, try to get a used one in great condition from the 1970s.
They are said to have better workmanship and machining.
You are going to pay more for the Marlin or Ruger, but trust us... they are worth it.
You will have either one for the rest of your life if you take care of it.
Ruger and Marlin
You have narrowed down their two most popular series', so just pick the one that you like the feel of the most.
Go to the store and pull each up to your cheek and see which one you like the most.
Then, choose the metal that you like the most (I prefer stainless myself).
You can't go wrong with the 10/22 or the Papoose.
If you can, try to get a used one in great condition from the 1970s.
They are said to have better workmanship and machining.
You are going to pay more for the Marlin or Ruger, but trust us... they are worth it.
You will have either one for the rest of your life if you take care of it.
Where do you people come from? Seriously...
Just in case you don't quite have a consensus yet - Ruger 10/22. Mine was battered and beaten when I bought it for $75 at a pawn shop about 16 years ago, and it still hasn't failed me after several thousand rounds and less than ideal maintenance.
awesome guys! Thanks for ALL of the responses. I think I'll go find a gun shop around here and get a feel for the Ruger and Marlin if they have one.
As for everyone who said the .22 isn't a personal defense weapon, I agree and as I stated earlier, that won't be it's primary purpose. But, if I do have to defend myself, which would you rather have, a 3 D-cell MagLite or a .22? Because that's all I have and all I'll be getting. I can't break down a shotgun for portability (although it is a great choice and one I'll consider later), I won't get a handgun, and everything else is way out of my budget. Dammit Jim, I'm a computer nerd, not a gun enthusiast!
Forgive me if I don't see things the way you guys do.
As for everyone who said the .22 isn't a personal defense weapon, I agree and as I stated earlier, that won't be it's primary purpose. But, if I do have to defend myself, which would you rather have, a 3 D-cell MagLite or a .22? Because that's all I have and all I'll be getting. I can't break down a shotgun for portability (although it is a great choice and one I'll consider later), I won't get a handgun, and everything else is way out of my budget. Dammit Jim, I'm a computer nerd, not a gun enthusiast!
Forgive me if I don't see things the way you guys do.
sao123
Lifer
- May 27, 2002
- 12,648
- 201
- 106
Originally posted by: AmigaMan
awesome guys! Thanks for ALL of the responses. I think I'll go find a gun shop around here and get a feel for the Ruger and Marlin if they have one.
As for everyone who said the .22 isn't a personal defense weapon, I agree and as I stated earlier, that won't be it's primary purpose. But, if I do have to defend myself, which would you rather have, a 3 D-cell MagLite or a .22? Because that's all I have and all I'll be getting. I can't break down a shotgun for portability (although it is a great choice and one I'll consider later), I won't get a handgun, and everything else is way out of my budget. Dammit Jim, I'm a computer nerd, not a gun enthusiast!
With your gun skills the (world + dog + you) might be safer if you just had a crowbar, tire iron, baseball bat, pepper spray!!!
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: AmigaMan
awesome guys! Thanks for ALL of the responses. I think I'll go find a gun shop around here and get a feel for the Ruger and Marlin if they have one.
As for everyone who said the .22 isn't a personal defense weapon, I agree and as I stated earlier, that won't be it's primary purpose. But, if I do have to defend myself, which would you rather have, a 3 D-cell MagLite or a .22? Because that's all I have and all I'll be getting. I can't break down a shotgun for portability (although it is a great choice and one I'll consider later), I won't get a handgun, and everything else is way out of my budget. Dammit Jim, I'm a computer nerd, not a gun enthusiast!
With your gun skills the (world + dog + you) might be safer if you just had a crowbar, tire iron, baseball bat, pepper spray!!!
we all start somewhere. I'm sure you didn't start out hitting the bulls-eye in every target you shot. Then again, this is ATOT where everyone is married to a supermodel, has perfect accuracy, can afford million dollar homes, drives hundred thousand dollar cars and can afford the latest and greatest toys. :roll:
sao123
Lifer
- May 27, 2002
- 12,648
- 201
- 106
Originally posted by: AmigaMan
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: AmigaMan
awesome guys! Thanks for ALL of the responses. I think I'll go find a gun shop around here and get a feel for the Ruger and Marlin if they have one.
As for everyone who said the .22 isn't a personal defense weapon, I agree and as I stated earlier, that won't be it's primary purpose. But, if I do have to defend myself, which would you rather have, a 3 D-cell MagLite or a .22? Because that's all I have and all I'll be getting. I can't break down a shotgun for portability (although it is a great choice and one I'll consider later), I won't get a handgun, and everything else is way out of my budget. Dammit Jim, I'm a computer nerd, not a gun enthusiast!
With your gun skills the (world + dog + you) might be safer if you just had a crowbar, tire iron, baseball bat, pepper spray!!!
we all start somewhere. I'm sure you didn't start out hitting the bulls-eye in every target you shot. Then again, this is ATOT where everyone is married to a supermodel, has perfect accuracy, can afford million dollar homes, drives hundred thousand dollar cars and can afford the latest and greatest toys. :roll:
absolutely not, you dont become a good shot overnight. It took me about 3 years of weekly practice to become the shooter I am now. However... what I didnt do... is purchase a firearm with the intent of using it for self defense during my learning time.
Until you actually feel comfortable shooting it, and can hit a moving target with accuracy, a gun used in defense is more likely to hinder your self defense than aid it...
It could either be a distraction and keep you from taking quick responce action when necessary, or you and your attacker might struggle close and it go off accidentally....
Eitehr way until you have a few years of shooting, you'll still need some other immediate defense mechanism...
K1052
Elite Member
- Aug 21, 2003
- 46,044
- 33,088
- 136
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: AmigaMan
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: AmigaMan
awesome guys! Thanks for ALL of the responses. I think I'll go find a gun shop around here and get a feel for the Ruger and Marlin if they have one.
As for everyone who said the .22 isn't a personal defense weapon, I agree and as I stated earlier, that won't be it's primary purpose. But, if I do have to defend myself, which would you rather have, a 3 D-cell MagLite or a .22? Because that's all I have and all I'll be getting. I can't break down a shotgun for portability (although it is a great choice and one I'll consider later), I won't get a handgun, and everything else is way out of my budget. Dammit Jim, I'm a computer nerd, not a gun enthusiast!
With your gun skills the (world + dog + you) might be safer if you just had a crowbar, tire iron, baseball bat, pepper spray!!!
we all start somewhere. I'm sure you didn't start out hitting the bulls-eye in every target you shot. Then again, this is ATOT where everyone is married to a supermodel, has perfect accuracy, can afford million dollar homes, drives hundred thousand dollar cars and can afford the latest and greatest toys. :roll:
absolutely not, you dont become a good shot overnight. It took me about 3 years of weekly practice to become the shooter I am now. However... what I didnt do... is purchase a firearm with the intent of using it for self defense during my learning time.
Until you actually feel comfortable shooting it, and can hit a moving target with accuracy, a gun used in defense is more likely to hinder your self defense than aid it...
It could either be a distraction and keep you from taking quick responce action when necessary, or you and your attacker might struggle close and it go off accidentally....
Eitehr way until you have a few years of shooting, you'll still need some other immediate defense mechanism...
What a total crock of bullshit.
It does not take years of practice to be able to defend yourself adequately with a firearm, especially if someone knowledgeable helps you out in the beginning. Within a couple months of having my first gun and some regular practice I was comfortable with using it for defense and the guy who originally taught me (ex army ranger) agreed that I could handle it.
Stop beating up on the OP like you know everything.
pontifex
Lifer
- Dec 5, 2000
- 43,806
- 46
- 91
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: AmigaMan
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: AmigaMan
awesome guys! Thanks for ALL of the responses. I think I'll go find a gun shop around here and get a feel for the Ruger and Marlin if they have one.
As for everyone who said the .22 isn't a personal defense weapon, I agree and as I stated earlier, that won't be it's primary purpose. But, if I do have to defend myself, which would you rather have, a 3 D-cell MagLite or a .22? Because that's all I have and all I'll be getting. I can't break down a shotgun for portability (although it is a great choice and one I'll consider later), I won't get a handgun, and everything else is way out of my budget. Dammit Jim, I'm a computer nerd, not a gun enthusiast!
With your gun skills the (world + dog + you) might be safer if you just had a crowbar, tire iron, baseball bat, pepper spray!!!
we all start somewhere. I'm sure you didn't start out hitting the bulls-eye in every target you shot. Then again, this is ATOT where everyone is married to a supermodel, has perfect accuracy, can afford million dollar homes, drives hundred thousand dollar cars and can afford the latest and greatest toys. :roll:
absolutely not, you dont become a good shot overnight. It took me about 3 years of weekly practice to become the shooter I am now. However... what I didnt do... is purchase a firearm with the intent of using it for self defense during my learning time.
Until you actually feel comfortable shooting it, and can hit a moving target with accuracy, a gun used in defense is more likely to hinder your self defense than aid it...
It could either be a distraction and keep you from taking quick responce action when necessary, or you and your attacker might struggle close and it go off accidentally....
Eitehr way until you have a few years of shooting, you'll still need some other immediate defense mechanism...
What a total crock of bullshit.
It does not take years of practice to be able to defend yourself adequately with a firearm, especially if someone knowledgeable helps you out in the beginning. Within a couple months of having my first gun and some regular practice I was comfortable with using it for defense and the guy who originally taught me (ex army ranger) agreed that I could handle it.
Stop beating up on the OP like you know everything.
but this is OT, we DO know everything!
I agree, it may take years to become a great marksman, but it doesn't take years to learn how to shoot a gun properly and be able to hit a target.
Marlin or Ruger would be fine, the breakdown of the Papoose is is nice I have a Marlin 60 with tube feed, never fails when its clean and its easy to clean , so no excuses there.
SHTF
Widely debated, a 22 will kill somebody no problem and motivate them from pursuing you if hit,, it will kill deer sized game no problem with central nervouse system shots, just behind the ear not to mention any of the mountains of game that are smaller.
Cheap to own ,cheap to shoot and get good with and no it doesn't take years to hit a bullseye. Usually an afternoon will do for 90% of what you hope to accomplish.
It will take years to become an expert marksman potentially.
As a survival weapon you can carry large quantity of ammo iand the rifle itself is light, once you make it outside a city, its quietness will not give your position away.
AR's and Shotguns
Good if you live in an urban environment where you expect to have to fight your way out.
Consider this, if you ever get into that situation where you need mountains of firepower to survive I'd expect your survival rate to be WAY down anyway as those people you are potentially shooting are probably shooting back. This is why the military needs these as the best available tools.
Get the 22 its the conerstone of any rifle collection and the perfect place to start because of its economy and usefullness.
SHTF
Widely debated, a 22 will kill somebody no problem and motivate them from pursuing you if hit,, it will kill deer sized game no problem with central nervouse system shots, just behind the ear not to mention any of the mountains of game that are smaller.
Cheap to own ,cheap to shoot and get good with and no it doesn't take years to hit a bullseye. Usually an afternoon will do for 90% of what you hope to accomplish.
It will take years to become an expert marksman potentially.
As a survival weapon you can carry large quantity of ammo iand the rifle itself is light, once you make it outside a city, its quietness will not give your position away.
AR's and Shotguns
Good if you live in an urban environment where you expect to have to fight your way out.
Consider this, if you ever get into that situation where you need mountains of firepower to survive I'd expect your survival rate to be WAY down anyway as those people you are potentially shooting are probably shooting back. This is why the military needs these as the best available tools.
Get the 22 its the conerstone of any rifle collection and the perfect place to start because of its economy and usefullness.
Henry 22 is a POS... it feels cheap and crappy... def. go with ruger 10/22 there are a lot of custom parts around so if u want u can always alter it to your liking.
sao123
Lifer
- May 27, 2002
- 12,648
- 201
- 106
Originally posted by: pontifex
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: AmigaMan
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: AmigaMan
awesome guys! Thanks for ALL of the responses. I think I'll go find a gun shop around here and get a feel for the Ruger and Marlin if they have one.
As for everyone who said the .22 isn't a personal defense weapon, I agree and as I stated earlier, that won't be it's primary purpose. But, if I do have to defend myself, which would you rather have, a 3 D-cell MagLite or a .22? Because that's all I have and all I'll be getting. I can't break down a shotgun for portability (although it is a great choice and one I'll consider later), I won't get a handgun, and everything else is way out of my budget. Dammit Jim, I'm a computer nerd, not a gun enthusiast!
With your gun skills the (world + dog + you) might be safer if you just had a crowbar, tire iron, baseball bat, pepper spray!!!
we all start somewhere. I'm sure you didn't start out hitting the bulls-eye in every target you shot. Then again, this is ATOT where everyone is married to a supermodel, has perfect accuracy, can afford million dollar homes, drives hundred thousand dollar cars and can afford the latest and greatest toys. :roll:
absolutely not, you dont become a good shot overnight. It took me about 3 years of weekly practice to become the shooter I am now. However... what I didnt do... is purchase a firearm with the intent of using it for self defense during my learning time.
Until you actually feel comfortable shooting it, and can hit a moving target with accuracy, a gun used in defense is more likely to hinder your self defense than aid it...
It could either be a distraction and keep you from taking quick responce action when necessary, or you and your attacker might struggle close and it go off accidentally....
Eitehr way until you have a few years of shooting, you'll still need some other immediate defense mechanism...
What a total crock of bullshit.
It does not take years of practice to be able to defend yourself adequately with a firearm, especially if someone knowledgeable helps you out in the beginning. Within a couple months of having my first gun and some regular practice I was comfortable with using it for defense and the guy who originally taught me (ex army ranger) agreed that I could handle it.
Stop beating up on the OP like you know everything.
but this is OT, we DO know everything!
I agree, it may take years to become a great marksman, but it doesn't take years to learn how to shoot a gun properly and be able to hit a target.
quite a difference between being able to take your time and hit a paper target on a wall 25 yards away consistently... and being able to be woke up in the middle of the night panic stricken and trying to find your gun, load it, and shoot someone in the dark, while they are stealing your stuff, or running at you with a knife from your own kitchen.
IMO...People who want self defense should go take martial arts... not buy a gun.
K1052
Elite Member
- Aug 21, 2003
- 46,044
- 33,088
- 136
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: pontifex
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: AmigaMan
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: AmigaMan
awesome guys! Thanks for ALL of the responses. I think I'll go find a gun shop around here and get a feel for the Ruger and Marlin if they have one.
As for everyone who said the .22 isn't a personal defense weapon, I agree and as I stated earlier, that won't be it's primary purpose. But, if I do have to defend myself, which would you rather have, a 3 D-cell MagLite or a .22? Because that's all I have and all I'll be getting. I can't break down a shotgun for portability (although it is a great choice and one I'll consider later), I won't get a handgun, and everything else is way out of my budget. Dammit Jim, I'm a computer nerd, not a gun enthusiast!
With your gun skills the (world + dog + you) might be safer if you just had a crowbar, tire iron, baseball bat, pepper spray!!!
we all start somewhere. I'm sure you didn't start out hitting the bulls-eye in every target you shot. Then again, this is ATOT where everyone is married to a supermodel, has perfect accuracy, can afford million dollar homes, drives hundred thousand dollar cars and can afford the latest and greatest toys. :roll:
absolutely not, you dont become a good shot overnight. It took me about 3 years of weekly practice to become the shooter I am now. However... what I didnt do... is purchase a firearm with the intent of using it for self defense during my learning time.
Until you actually feel comfortable shooting it, and can hit a moving target with accuracy, a gun used in defense is more likely to hinder your self defense than aid it...
It could either be a distraction and keep you from taking quick responce action when necessary, or you and your attacker might struggle close and it go off accidentally....
Eitehr way until you have a few years of shooting, you'll still need some other immediate defense mechanism...
What a total crock of bullshit.
It does not take years of practice to be able to defend yourself adequately with a firearm, especially if someone knowledgeable helps you out in the beginning. Within a couple months of having my first gun and some regular practice I was comfortable with using it for defense and the guy who originally taught me (ex army ranger) agreed that I could handle it.
Stop beating up on the OP like you know everything.
but this is OT, we DO know everything!
I agree, it may take years to become a great marksman, but it doesn't take years to learn how to shoot a gun properly and be able to hit a target.
quite a difference between being able to take your time and hit a paper target on a wall 25 yards away consistently... and being able to be woke up in the middle of the night panic stricken and trying to find your gun, load it, and shoot someone in the dark, while they are stealing your stuff, or running at you with a knife from your own kitchen.
IMO...People who want self defense should go take martial arts... not buy a gun.
Yes, it will be so amazingly difficult for me to open the nightstand sitting a foot away form me where I have my loaded pistol and flashlight stored. :roll:
Inside a house ranges are minimal and the odds that you are 25 or more yards away from the target are almost infinitesimal.
Don Vito Corleone
Elite
- Feb 10, 2000
- 30,029
- 66
- 91
hanoverphist
Diamond Member
- Dec 7, 2006
- 9,928
- 23
- 76
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: pontifex
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: AmigaMan
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: AmigaMan
awesome guys! Thanks for ALL of the responses. I think I'll go find a gun shop around here and get a feel for the Ruger and Marlin if they have one.
As for everyone who said the .22 isn't a personal defense weapon, I agree and as I stated earlier, that won't be it's primary purpose. But, if I do have to defend myself, which would you rather have, a 3 D-cell MagLite or a .22? Because that's all I have and all I'll be getting. I can't break down a shotgun for portability (although it is a great choice and one I'll consider later), I won't get a handgun, and everything else is way out of my budget. Dammit Jim, I'm a computer nerd, not a gun enthusiast!
With your gun skills the (world + dog + you) might be safer if you just had a crowbar, tire iron, baseball bat, pepper spray!!!
we all start somewhere. I'm sure you didn't start out hitting the bulls-eye in every target you shot. Then again, this is ATOT where everyone is married to a supermodel, has perfect accuracy, can afford million dollar homes, drives hundred thousand dollar cars and can afford the latest and greatest toys. :roll:
absolutely not, you dont become a good shot overnight. It took me about 3 years of weekly practice to become the shooter I am now. However... what I didnt do... is purchase a firearm with the intent of using it for self defense during my learning time.
Until you actually feel comfortable shooting it, and can hit a moving target with accuracy, a gun used in defense is more likely to hinder your self defense than aid it...
It could either be a distraction and keep you from taking quick responce action when necessary, or you and your attacker might struggle close and it go off accidentally....
Eitehr way until you have a few years of shooting, you'll still need some other immediate defense mechanism...
What a total crock of bullshit.
It does not take years of practice to be able to defend yourself adequately with a firearm, especially if someone knowledgeable helps you out in the beginning. Within a couple months of having my first gun and some regular practice I was comfortable with using it for defense and the guy who originally taught me (ex army ranger) agreed that I could handle it.
Stop beating up on the OP like you know everything.
but this is OT, we DO know everything!
I agree, it may take years to become a great marksman, but it doesn't take years to learn how to shoot a gun properly and be able to hit a target.
quite a difference between being able to take your time and hit a paper target on a wall 25 yards away consistently... and being able to be woke up in the middle of the night panic stricken and trying to find your gun, load it, and shoot someone in the dark, while they are stealing your stuff, or running at you with a knife from your own kitchen.
IMO...People who want self defense should go take martial arts... not buy a gun.
most self defense scenarios happen so quickly youd be hard pressed to get a gun out of the holster by the time you needed it... this is also why i carry a quick knife on my side as well as having a 4D mag (aka club) sitting next to my bed where my hand naturally falls. ive had to pull my gun twice in my life in self defense, and both times ended without firing. ive had to beat someone down way more than that in my quests for fun, never even having the time or space to draw a weapon. but ill tell ya, a 2AA minimag sure does the trick in a pinch, was as effective as stabbing them and i didnt have to explain much to the cops.
sao123
Lifer
- May 27, 2002
- 12,648
- 201
- 106
Originally posted by: hanoverphist
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: pontifex
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: AmigaMan
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: AmigaMan
awesome guys! Thanks for ALL of the responses. I think I'll go find a gun shop around here and get a feel for the Ruger and Marlin if they have one.
As for everyone who said the .22 isn't a personal defense weapon, I agree and as I stated earlier, that won't be it's primary purpose. But, if I do have to defend myself, which would you rather have, a 3 D-cell MagLite or a .22? Because that's all I have and all I'll be getting. I can't break down a shotgun for portability (although it is a great choice and one I'll consider later), I won't get a handgun, and everything else is way out of my budget. Dammit Jim, I'm a computer nerd, not a gun enthusiast!
With your gun skills the (world + dog + you) might be safer if you just had a crowbar, tire iron, baseball bat, pepper spray!!!
we all start somewhere. I'm sure you didn't start out hitting the bulls-eye in every target you shot. Then again, this is ATOT where everyone is married to a supermodel, has perfect accuracy, can afford million dollar homes, drives hundred thousand dollar cars and can afford the latest and greatest toys. :roll:
absolutely not, you dont become a good shot overnight. It took me about 3 years of weekly practice to become the shooter I am now. However... what I didnt do... is purchase a firearm with the intent of using it for self defense during my learning time.
Until you actually feel comfortable shooting it, and can hit a moving target with accuracy, a gun used in defense is more likely to hinder your self defense than aid it...
It could either be a distraction and keep you from taking quick responce action when necessary, or you and your attacker might struggle close and it go off accidentally....
Eitehr way until you have a few years of shooting, you'll still need some other immediate defense mechanism...
What a total crock of bullshit.
It does not take years of practice to be able to defend yourself adequately with a firearm, especially if someone knowledgeable helps you out in the beginning. Within a couple months of having my first gun and some regular practice I was comfortable with using it for defense and the guy who originally taught me (ex army ranger) agreed that I could handle it.
Stop beating up on the OP like you know everything.
but this is OT, we DO know everything!
I agree, it may take years to become a great marksman, but it doesn't take years to learn how to shoot a gun properly and be able to hit a target.
quite a difference between being able to take your time and hit a paper target on a wall 25 yards away consistently... and being able to be woke up in the middle of the night panic stricken and trying to find your gun, load it, and shoot someone in the dark, while they are stealing your stuff, or running at you with a knife from your own kitchen.
IMO...People who want self defense should go take martial arts... not buy a gun.
most self defense scenarios happen so quickly youd be hard pressed to get a gun out of the holster by the time you needed it... this is also why i carry a quick knife on my side as well as having a 4D mag (aka club) sitting next to my bed where my hand naturally falls. ive had to pull my gun twice in my life in self defense, and both times ended without firing. ive had to beat someone down way more than that in my quests for fun, never even having the time or space to draw a weapon. but ill tell ya, a 2AA minimag sure does the trick in a pinch, was as effective as stabbing them and i didnt have to explain much to the cops.
:thumbsup:
finally someone else with some common sense...
Another vote for the Ruger.
I never really understood why so many people believe a .22LR isn't lethal, or can't stop someone trying to hurt you.
I have heard such myths, that the bullets can't even penetrate someones skull. That if you shot a strong guy in the chest, it wouldn't even go through his chest muscle, or sometimes it won't even break his skin...etc etc.
What a bunch of bullshit. Sure, a .357 magnum will knock a guy down if you hit him in the shoulder, and a .22 will just hurt really damn bad. Sure a .22LR isn't going to do much if a guy has full body armor on. It isn't an armor piercing round, and it doesn't have a lot of mass. But against an unarmored person, an accurately placed shot is still very lethal up to 100+ yards away. And I can sure as hell take a 10/22 with a scope, and place 10 shots within 4 inches of each other at 100 yards easily, and rather quickly. Without a scope I could still probably get a head shot on a human being at 100 yards without to much trouble. I know I can hit a paper plate rather easily at that distance.
Plus you can get banana magazines. 25 rounds per magazine, and they are back to back, giving you 50 rounds, and it only takes about 3 seconds or less to flip the magazine over.
I never really understood why so many people believe a .22LR isn't lethal, or can't stop someone trying to hurt you.
I have heard such myths, that the bullets can't even penetrate someones skull. That if you shot a strong guy in the chest, it wouldn't even go through his chest muscle, or sometimes it won't even break his skin...etc etc.
What a bunch of bullshit. Sure, a .357 magnum will knock a guy down if you hit him in the shoulder, and a .22 will just hurt really damn bad. Sure a .22LR isn't going to do much if a guy has full body armor on. It isn't an armor piercing round, and it doesn't have a lot of mass. But against an unarmored person, an accurately placed shot is still very lethal up to 100+ yards away. And I can sure as hell take a 10/22 with a scope, and place 10 shots within 4 inches of each other at 100 yards easily, and rather quickly. Without a scope I could still probably get a head shot on a human being at 100 yards without to much trouble. I know I can hit a paper plate rather easily at that distance.
Plus you can get banana magazines. 25 rounds per magazine, and they are back to back, giving you 50 rounds, and it only takes about 3 seconds or less to flip the magazine over.
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: hanoverphist
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: pontifex
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: AmigaMan
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: AmigaMan
awesome guys! Thanks for ALL of the responses. I think I'll go find a gun shop around here and get a feel for the Ruger and Marlin if they have one.
As for everyone who said the .22 isn't a personal defense weapon, I agree and as I stated earlier, that won't be it's primary purpose. But, if I do have to defend myself, which would you rather have, a 3 D-cell MagLite or a .22? Because that's all I have and all I'll be getting. I can't break down a shotgun for portability (although it is a great choice and one I'll consider later), I won't get a handgun, and everything else is way out of my budget. Dammit Jim, I'm a computer nerd, not a gun enthusiast!
With your gun skills the (world + dog + you) might be safer if you just had a crowbar, tire iron, baseball bat, pepper spray!!!
we all start somewhere. I'm sure you didn't start out hitting the bulls-eye in every target you shot. Then again, this is ATOT where everyone is married to a supermodel, has perfect accuracy, can afford million dollar homes, drives hundred thousand dollar cars and can afford the latest and greatest toys. :roll:
absolutely not, you dont become a good shot overnight. It took me about 3 years of weekly practice to become the shooter I am now. However... what I didnt do... is purchase a firearm with the intent of using it for self defense during my learning time.
Until you actually feel comfortable shooting it, and can hit a moving target with accuracy, a gun used in defense is more likely to hinder your self defense than aid it...
It could either be a distraction and keep you from taking quick responce action when necessary, or you and your attacker might struggle close and it go off accidentally....
Eitehr way until you have a few years of shooting, you'll still need some other immediate defense mechanism...
What a total crock of bullshit.
It does not take years of practice to be able to defend yourself adequately with a firearm, especially if someone knowledgeable helps you out in the beginning. Within a couple months of having my first gun and some regular practice I was comfortable with using it for defense and the guy who originally taught me (ex army ranger) agreed that I could handle it.
Stop beating up on the OP like you know everything.
but this is OT, we DO know everything!
I agree, it may take years to become a great marksman, but it doesn't take years to learn how to shoot a gun properly and be able to hit a target.
quite a difference between being able to take your time and hit a paper target on a wall 25 yards away consistently... and being able to be woke up in the middle of the night panic stricken and trying to find your gun, load it, and shoot someone in the dark, while they are stealing your stuff, or running at you with a knife from your own kitchen.
IMO...People who want self defense should go take martial arts... not buy a gun.
most self defense scenarios happen so quickly youd be hard pressed to get a gun out of the holster by the time you needed it... this is also why i carry a quick knife on my side as well as having a 4D mag (aka club) sitting next to my bed where my hand naturally falls. ive had to pull my gun twice in my life in self defense, and both times ended without firing. ive had to beat someone down way more than that in my quests for fun, never even having the time or space to draw a weapon. but ill tell ya, a 2AA minimag sure does the trick in a pinch, was as effective as stabbing them and i didnt have to explain much to the cops.
:thumbsup:
finally someone else with some common sense...
Never bring a knife to a gunfight....
OP didn't ask for any kind of recommendation on the optimal means of self defense, he asked for a recommendation on a rifle that might in extreme circumstances be used for self defense. I certainly agree that a .22 is not the prime candidate for self defense (as he readily acknowledges in his post), but in a pinch it could certainly serve in that capacity in the absence of anything better suited to the task.
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