Gun control in GA

[x-alki]

Also



I know when I'm violently chasing down a rape victim, I always rummage through all their shit first.

Woman is stupid.

edit: Okay, I'll just end this debate and agree with these people that've leaked out of P&N.

WOOHOO YAY AMURICA FUCK YEAH SHOOT THEM BLACKS

I'm not going to quote all your idiotic posts...I'll just say you are one of the biggest fuckwads here....

 

[darkswordsman17]

http://news.yahoo.com/mom-shot-intruder-inspires-gun-control-foes-003753089.html

Another story with more details but still no clear info on if he knew they were there until he found them in the crawl space.

The women did 100% the right thing. no matter what phucking idiots say.

she ran upstairs, she gave him plenty of chances to take shit and leave. he continued after them. breaking through doors to get to her.

At that point he proved he was a threat. She does not need to wait and see IF he is going to rape her or leave. He could have left with shit and didn't.

I agree, she did the right thing, but there's conflicting reports about him being after them. One story says he got surprised when finding her in the closet of the office after rummaging through the house, the other says he broke through 3 locked doors (the entrance to their attic where her office is is through a bathroom?) to chase after them. I don't think making a case for getting facts straight makes anyone a "phucking idiot" but then I don't know who exactly you were responding to.

I dated someone who did countless hours of research on home invasions for a dissertation. She had access to police reports and help from a state investigator.


The majority of the home invasions were 2-3 males who would bang on the door, if no one answered they would kick it down and enter the home while claiming to be police.

They would tie everyone up at gunpoint, one would guard the residents while the others robbed the home.

If a woman was in the home she would almost always be raped. I'm talking like >90% of the time.


This same scenario was played out over and over and over... While a separate issue this is why I have such a major issue with no knock warrants.. You have no idea if it's actually the police or not, and by the time you find out it's far too late.

I'm not attacking you or even really disputing your claims (I have no doubt there's a high correlation of rapes in those situations although greater than 90% is pretty outrageous and thus why I'm asking for something to actually back that up) but I need something to actually go on. I see a shit-ton of FUD and made up statistics and other bullshit all the time and I see people making claims/opinions based on it. Its really getting out of hand. It completely undermines being able to have a serious rational discussion about serious topics when misinformation if not outright lies are used as the basis for arguments.

Take this for instance:
http://www.homeinvasionnews.com/if-you-see-these-home-invasion-statistics-dont-look/

He proved he was a threat when he broke the front door open. The things that happened after that are really moot.

While I agree that the differences make things moot, I don't see why people are so uncaring (actually I see a lot of people, not necessarily in this thread, that are openly antagonistic towards more facts they'd rather base their judgements on whatever they first were fed about something) about the very significant discrepancies over the facts they're being presented.

I see people going apeshit about the media but for the wrong reasons. They get mad when the media presents info they don't want to hear, but they don't seem to give a shit when the media gives them info that is distorted as long as it better fits their belief. There's way too many people that are actually just seeking confirmation bias and not making opinions based on actual facts.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Good for her, but it's crazy he managed to survive that many bullets to the vital region. Sadly she'll probably have her life ruined due to lawsuits and other BS because now he'll probably have to go on medical aid etc... he'd be better off dead.

Now to turn this around. Had that guy had a gun, the kids and her would be dead, and we'd be hearing about yet another random shooting. Or perhaps a mysterious house fire with 3 bodies found as he could simply have tied them up to a chair at gun point and light the house on fire. Chair and rope would burn out well after they're dead, leaving only remains. She got lucky she was the only one with a gun.

 

[Ichinisan]

Was not making any kind of argument for any kind of cause. Just stating what seems fairly obvious and ironic- fear of black people caused a black person to invade her home.😎

Also, if someone gets the drop on you by knocking on your door, ringing the bell, then opening it with a crowbar...you're probably not fit to own firearms.

For her, the incident legitimized her fear of black people.

 

[Ichinisan]

Good for her, but it's crazy he managed to survive that many bullets to the vital region. Sadly she'll probably have her life ruined due to lawsuits and other BS because now he'll probably have to go on medical aid etc... he'd be better off dead.

Now to turn this around. Had that guy had a gun, the kids and her would be dead, and we'd be hearing about yet another random shooting. Or perhaps a mysterious house fire with 3 bodies found as he could simply have tied them up to a chair at gun point and light the house on fire. Chair and rope would burn out well after they're dead, leaving only remains. She got lucky she was the only one with a gun.

If it was illegal for him to have a gun, do you think he would care about the law?

 

[KK]

This happened right down the road from me, hope the worthless POS dies. We don't need that type of trash here.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

This happened right down the road from me, hope the worthless POS dies. We don't need that type of trash here.

As with almost every situation, for one you hear about there are many others which are not publicized.


It's important for both yourself and your family to be able to defend themselves in a situation such as this. Of course I'm not saying to walk around scared, but what would you do if someone started beating on your door right now while screaming police? Look at the front door, think about what you would do.

Now think about your wife/husband/whatever. It's something you should at least consider, it's not very likely to happen but if it does it would be devastating.

 

[KK]

As with almost every situation, for one you hear about there are many others which are not publicized.


It's important for both yourself and your family to be able to defend themselves in a situation such as this. Of course I'm not saying to walk around scared, but what would you do if someone started beating on your door right now while screaming police? Look at the front door, think about what you would do.

Now think about your wife/husband/whatever. It's something you should at least consider, it's not very likely to happen but if it does it would be devastating.

My wife is friends with someone that happens to live not too far from the subdivision this shooting occurred at. My wife was telling me that someone was trying to break into their home by kicking the front door when they were at work and school. I guess the neighbor seen it happen, and called the police, but evidently they didn't get into the house and the police didn't find anyone. This I believe was Monday of this week, you'd think people doing this kind of crap would have thought twice after this woman put this guy down.

 

[Ichinisan]

My wife is friends with someone that happens to live not too far from the subdivision this shooting occurred at. My wife was telling me that someone was trying to break into their home by kicking the front door when they were at work and school. I guess the neighbor seen it happen, and called the police, but evidently they didn't get into the house and the police didn't find anyone. This I believe was Monday of this week, you'd think people doing this kind of crap would have thought twice after this woman put this guy down.

Which incident happened first?

 

[StinkyPinky]

This is pretty much what every anti-gun-zealot disdains the most , a person who correctly was able to use her right to be armed to defend herself and her family from a criminal. Obviously, we need more gun control so people like her are defenseless against criminals in the future.

Oh rly? Of course, most "Anti gun nuts" have no problem with this type of gun ownership 🙄

Unless you think a bag full of assault rifles would have helped her even more?

 

[KK]

Which incident happened first?

The shooting

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Oh rly? Of course, most "Anti gun nuts" have no problem with this type of gun ownership 🙄

Unless you think a bag full of assault rifles would have helped her even more?

Considering the fact that 5 rounds didn't put the guy down, in the heat of the moment I have no doubt that she would've happily traded for an assault rifle.

 

[destrekor]

Wrong and a standard misconception. The human body can take a TON more punishment than most people believe. Not that such levels of punishment would be something most people would be willing to take to find out. Still, the human body is capable of taking far more damage than one might think and still survive.

What kills with gun shots is bleeding out, or a lucky shot to a vital organ. Vital organ would be the heart or brain for near immediate death. Other organs for a "quick" death would be the lungs for example. Otherwise, it takes time to bleed out and die unless there are a lot of holes or a major artery was struck like the aorta.

Being shot in the face actually has a high chance of living if not hit in the brain. Sure there will be high chance of disfigurement and impairment from such shots, but headshots for self defense are not recommended for a reason. Besides the obvious that hitting the head is harder to hit than the chest, but that if you don't hit the brain just right, or puncture the jugular, they aren't going to die all that quick. Too much bone and sensory organs and much of it highly protected. Also, bullets that strike aren't going to cause massive bleeding unless the jugular is struck in the neck which would kill quickly.

The big myth is that bullets are somehow magical and that 1 shot usually kills the target. Too much movie and TV drama crap that makes people believe that. Very rarely do people, or any large animal, dies from a single bullet wound.

Uh....
most large caliber (especially high velocity) rounds to the face invariably tend to find their way to the brain. The brain occupies a large portion of the human skull.

Yes, single bullet wounds to most parts of the body don't necessarily equal instant-death. The heart is a small target, missing it when firing at the chest can lead to either being perfectly fine for a few hours as long as one dresses the wound and takes care of it (hospital) later, or can lead to essentially drowning/suffocating (sucking chest wound, flooded lungs, collapsed lung(s), etc), or a few other things related to interstitial bleeding or infection from busted gut organs if not addressed in time.

But it's actually more likely to die from a single gunshot wound to the head, then it is to live. Especially if aiming at the front of the face and they strike in the face. All the front/lower bones are far more likely to lead to bullet tumbling, which is more often than not what happens with a headshot. It'll bounce around in the skull since the brain hardly slows it down but it's not fast enough to exit through more bone after entry.

You can survive trauma to the brain, like large holes being dug out from various things, but a tumbling bullet is quite likely to strike the medulla. If a bullet so much as glances the medulla, most likely you could be pronounced dead that instant - you'd drop and completely cease to continue any functions. If my anatomy serves me right, striking/severing the medulla not only completely shuts down all autonomic functions, but even if you could be hooked up immediately to all kinds of advanced machinery, it should also render immediate brain death. Striking the medulla is essentially the same thing as decapitating the head. You can do it by severing the medula from the spinal cord, or simply turning the medula into mush itself.

Shots to the lower back of the skull are almost statistically guaranteed to kill on the spot.
Shots to the side, depending on caliber and velocity (thinking above the ears, or near the ears themselves), have an equally strong chance of instant death.
Anything to the top of the skull (as in, boring top-down through the skull from above if they are standing) are nearly guaranteed to kill.
From afar, hitting the top of the skull, almost like grazing, I'd wager is less so, but bullet details are important for that one.
Aiming at the face from the front, if you are hitting the cheeks, brow, mouth area, and have aimed true and center mass (think like an arrow - from your standing posting, their face is squared with you, the bullets unbroken trajectory, if no head present, would travel straight through their head is, out the center of the back of the head) - this is a almost assuredly a much better than 50% chance of producing instant death.
Now, a round that strikes the jaw (as opposed to through the front teeth toward the back of their throat), or far off-center of the face, or to the high cheek bones (fewer open cavities, more bone, different trajectories), regardless of velocity/caliber, such wounds will probably result in 50/50, if not less. Especially if off center (you are squared up with their nose, dead center, but strike an off-angle to the sides of the face, off-angle jawbone strike, etc), it's probably less than 50/50 - but the right caliber and velocity may improve or worsen than.
Any of the above can be dropped by using weak velocity, small caliber rounds.
But even then, and especially with higher-powered rounds, bone fragments can be unpredictable and behave like missiles in the soft brain tissue.
And the chance always exists, even unfavorably with good aim to the better areas of the skull, that the random tumbling just won't work in your favor. A very high powered round may pass clean through the skull with no tumbling, and unless you hit just the right spot on that clean pass, there's a decent chance of surviving that. Sometimes without ill effects, sometimes with devastating changes to your personality, memory, or abilities.

But if you strike with bad aim (not aiming through back of skull) on a fair portion of the bone-dense front parts of the face, the tumbling bullet trajectory may exit before even touching the brain, with it instead destroying a good portion of the jaw and/or cheek bones before becoming lodged, exiting messily through the face, or being too slow to bounce around the skull.

There's even a small chance of so messily destroying the skull, that both the weakened containment vessel and the strong pressure waves just cause the brain to just *plop* on out of the head, quite likely entirely intact. It's actually quite rare, and probably the "best chances" are with .50cal high-velocity rifles more than anything.

Oh, the classical gun held to temple? That may be a true 50/50. Depending on the round, it may pass cleanly from temple to temple and exit without touching anything but the frontal lobes. Said victim may end up with a lobotomy and/or royally fucked up. I don't think there are many, if any, cases where the patient returned to a normal life after surviving a blast to the temple. There are survivors, but generally a shell of who they were.

Hmm, another article I read stated if the bullet crosses hemispheres, you are far less likely to survive. If it only impacts one lobe in one hemisphere, you can likely escape with minimal impacts (might lose a little of the You part, or possibly some left-sided or right-sided ability). And it stated aiming true from front of head to rear of head has the best outcomes, because it may only strike through one hemisphere. But I do believe this isn't specific to BULLET wounds but rather "penetrating head injuries". Bullets are known to tumble and bounce around in the skull; arrows, nails, screwdrivers, knives, all the other accidental and weaponized objects that can be bore into your skull, are not known to move off their straight trajectory. Such straight-through penetrations, unless aiming from up the back of the neck, are highly unlikely to strike the small region that can and does render instant death. You can typically live if it's only a limited portion of the cerebrum that has been bored through, again through with a range of possible side effects.


Of importance: I realized that, when I was nearly finished typing this, I had used "medulla" on many occasions. I don't feel like correcting each area that referenced this, so I'll do it once here:
replace every statement of "medulla" with "brain-stem region." This still includes the medulla, but also includes the brain stem itself, and the cerebellum. Now that I have recalled this, I do believe it would be a bullet striking the brain stem itself, and not the medulla (or it may be the cerebellum) that would render instant death. All three, which sit right near the base of the brain/skull, are crucial for motor functions and autonomic activity.

At the minimum, hitting one of those will render the heart to stop permanently, I don't think any surgery can fix that. Likely at the same time, you become unconscious (due to other effects, not the heart stopping). If that's all that happens, you aren't technically brain dead yet, but your effectively dead because you cut off the brain from both oxygen and sugar, and it can no longer do anything with the lifeless bag of meat and bones attached to it. You wouldn't be able to think or feel or anything, but the brain itself might still be burning up it's last reserves of oxygen and sugar.


Here's an interesting number:
In 2000, Maryland recorded 235 penetrating brain injuries - 208 of them lethal.
How many of those were gunshot wounds, and the actual percentage of headshot survivors, is unknown. Who knows how many assholes went stabby stabby to the head, or how many dumbasses fired a nailgun to their face.


Here's an interesting, presumed fact:
if you put a gun inside the mouth, aiming straight back through the throat out the back of the skull, it should be guaranteed death. If you do it with a shotgun, there shouldn't really be much left of your skull; if you do it with a handgun, even a weak one, it should travel straight to the brain stem/surrounding region of important bits.

[holy shit - why did I type all that? lol]

 

[SpatiallyAware]

What would she have done if this happened with three men instead of just one?

 

[Ns1]

If phucheneh were faced with a home invasion robbery he'd probably make his robbers tea.

 

[HumblePie]

Face shots, are not head shots. At that close, a lot of people in panic aim for the face and not the brain cavity. Most people aim for the lower part of the face, which explains the neck shot. The lower part of the face for shots would knock out teeth, break jaws, and possibly bounce off the top of the spinal column. Such shots have a low kill rate though.

However, even a shot to and through the brain doesn't mean instant death either. Just depends on what is hit when the shot goes through.

As for heavier calibers causing more damage, that in general is true but not an absolute. The truth is, the shot that causes the biggest, widest, and longest wound channel is more likely to kill quicker. A 1911 that only works with ball ammo .45 acp isn't going to deal nearly as much damage as a good 9mm hollow point for example.

 

[Cerb]

Looks like she should have gone with a .357.

What? So she'd have even more trouble aiming the subsequent shots quickly? Leave that to fake gunfights in movies. It was probably hard enough with the .38 she had, in the heat of the moment.

 

[phucheneh]

If phucheneh were faced with a home invasion robbery he'd probably make his robbers tea.

No, I would shoot them. Successfully.

Of course, in this case, there would've been no home invasion or robbery.

But this is all beside the point.

Oh wait; no it's not.

At this point I'm annoyed enough to say I hope the burglar sues the wise and beautiful woman and wins. Then he can get shot to death for all I give a fuck. But bankrupt the hillbilly retard first.

'I was just going to see if she had a cup of sugar I could borrow. I busted in when I heard a woman scream to see if I could help.' I mean hey, it doesn't sound any more ridiculous than:

'I saw a black guy and thought he might be a robber, so I hid in my closet. Then it turns out that I was right; all black people are criminals! So I shot his ears off.'

 

[HamburgerBoy]

No, I would shoot them. Successfully.

Of course, in this case, there would've been no home invasion or robbery.

But this is all beside the point.

Oh wait; no it's not.

At this point I'm annoyed enough to say I hope the burglar sues the wise and beautiful woman and wins. Then he can get shot to death for all I give a fuck. But bankrupt the hillbilly retard first.

'I was just going to see if she had a cup of sugar I could borrow. I busted in when I heard a woman scream to see if I could help.' I mean hey, it doesn't sound any more ridiculous than:

'I saw a black guy and thought he might be a robber, so I hid in my closet. Then it turns out that I was right; all black people are criminals! So I shot his ears off.'

How is 5/6 shots hit, resulting in elimination of the threat, "unsuccessful"? And where did she call all black people criminals?

 

[Ns1]

No, I would shoot them. Successfully.

Of course, in this case, there would've been no home invasion or robbery.

But this is all beside the point.

Oh wait; no it's not.

At this point I'm annoyed enough to say I hope the burglar sues the wise and beautiful woman and wins. Then he can get shot to death for all I give a fuck. But bankrupt the hillbilly retard first.

'I was just going to see if she had a cup of sugar I could borrow. I busted in when I heard a woman scream to see if I could help.' I mean hey, it doesn't sound any more ridiculous than:

'I saw a black guy and thought he might be a robber, so I hid in my closet. Then it turns out that I was right; all black people are criminals! So I shot his ears off.'

I haven't seen this much idiocy on ATOT in a few months. congrats, I guess.

 

[Howard]

I haven't seen this much idiocy on ATOT in a few months. congrats, I guess.

Well, everybody knows he's not all there.

 

[SSSnail]

Holy shit phucheneh, are you really that retarded, or you're playing one really well? I mean, I troll a lot, but I'm not persistent about my trolling, to the point of retardation. Stop it, you're an embarrassment to the troll race.

 

[waggy]

No, I would shoot them. Successfully.

Of course, in this case, there would've been no home invasion or robbery.

But this is all beside the point.

Oh wait; no it's not.

At this point I'm annoyed enough to say I hope the burglar sues the wise and beautiful woman and wins. Then he can get shot to death for all I give a fuck. But bankrupt the hillbilly retard first.

'I was just going to see if she had a cup of sugar I could borrow. I busted in when I heard a woman scream to see if I could help.' I mean hey, it doesn't sound any more ridiculous than:

'I saw a black guy and thought he might be a robber, so I hid in my closet. Then it turns out that I was right; all black people are criminals! So I shot his ears off.'

shit. hitting her target 5 of 6 shots. Getting out of the situation alive with her kids without getting hurt. I call that a success.

i have never had a neighbor come over and start kicking in doors to borrow a cup of surger. they knock if i don't answer they leave. no door kicking is needed.

You are putting that she is racist.

So either you are a troll (and such should get vacation) or you are fucking stupid.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Waggy..... You asshole. This convicted felon just wanted a cup of sugar. Then when he knocked and didn't hear anything he was worried the homeowners succumbed to co2 poisoning.

So, just as any good concerned citizen would do, he kicked the door down. He then heard screaming and thought hey they're getting attacked!! He then kicks down 2 more doors to save them when the homeowner had the gall to shoot him in the face!




Gah, I would only live in a state where crossing the threshold = ok to shoot.

 

[CZroe]

It's racist to assume that the only reason she might not answer a stranger banging at the door is because he's black. What if he was white? She probably would not have answered then either and you are an idiot if you ASSUME she would and based this entire argument around it.

My door is like my phone. I answer it if I want to. If you are a stranger you have no real business at my door and I'll only answer if I am feeling charitable, I am not busy, and I don't feel threatened.