Gun control in GA

[phucheneh]

Ok so instead of her having the element of surprise she should've called out "Go away I'm armed!".

Then the burglar breaks in knowing there will be a fight and/or gun, and is better prepared to tie her and the kids up, rape them, then shoot them all.

Was not making any kind of argument for any kind of cause. Just stating what seems fairly obvious and ironic- fear of black people caused a black person to invade her home.😎

Also, if someone gets the drop on you by knocking on your door, ringing the bell, then opening it with a crowbar...you're probably not fit to own firearms.

 

[PokerGuy]

Also, this story is kind of weird, anyway. Sounds like the guy was looking for an empty house and would've just gone away if she had made any indication that she was there. Instead she panicked because a black man was at the door (was he black? I assume we're assuming he was black).

Uh, NO.

The family had fled through three locked doors, into a bathroom and then to an upstairs crawl space, but the intruder busted the doors open to stalk the family, police said.

The intruder knew they were there, and busted through not one, not two, but three locked doors to get to them. Obviously, he meant to harm them, not 'just' rob the place. Had she not been armed, she and her kids would have been seriously hurt or killed.

The only unfortunate part is that the guy lived. :thumbsdown:

 

[bignateyk]

I'm guessing most of the 5 bullets simply grazed him. No way someone takes 5 shots directly to the head and is still able to drive away afterward.

 

[phucheneh]

Uh, NO.

The intruder knew they were there, and busted through not one, not two, but three locked doors to get to them. Obviously, he meant to harm them, not 'just' rob the place. Had she not been armed, she and her kids would have been seriously hurt or killed.

The only unfortunate part is that the guy lived. :thumbsdown:

Sorry, didn't see that part. I thought the quoted bit was the bulk of the story.

Although I'm still kinda in doubt. Having a crowbar says 'burglar,' not 'PCP rage.' They still may have been 'fleeing' from someone who didn't know they were there, locked doors or not. Of course he 'busted through' doors if he thought he was alone. No need to be quiet.

I just don't see the 'I'M COMING TO RAPE AND MURDER YOU AT ALL COSTS, STRANGER' scenario being all that likely. Again, it's not defending a useless criminal...more just pointing out that the woman sounds like a fucking idiot. For fuck's fake, she's being applauded for missing six times at point blank.

(sorry, I'm not counting grazes)

 

[clamum]

Again, it's not defending a useless criminal...more just pointing out that the woman sounds like a fucking idiot. For fuck's fake, she's being applauded for missing six times at point blank.

(sorry, I'm not counting grazes)

Uh. You're a moron. Yes, she's a real "fucking idiot". STFU/GTFO dumbass.

 

[HumblePie]

I'm guessing most of the 5 bullets simply grazed him. No way someone takes 5 shots directly to the head and is still able to drive away afterward.

Wrong and a standard misconception. The human body can take a TON more punishment than most people believe. Not that such levels of punishment would be something most people would be willing to take to find out. Still, the human body is capable of taking far more damage than one might think and still survive.

What kills with gun shots is bleeding out, or a lucky shot to a vital organ. Vital organ would be the heart or brain for near immediate death. Other organs for a "quick" death would be the lungs for example. Otherwise, it takes time to bleed out and die unless there are a lot of holes or a major artery was struck like the aorta.

Being shot in the face actually has a high chance of living if not hit in the brain. Sure there will be high chance of disfigurement and impairment from such shots, but headshots for self defense are not recommended for a reason. Besides the obvious that hitting the head is harder to hit than the chest, but that if you don't hit the brain just right, or puncture the jugular, they aren't going to die all that quick. Too much bone and sensory organs and much of it highly protected. Also, bullets that strike aren't going to cause massive bleeding unless the jugular is struck in the neck which would kill quickly.

The big myth is that bullets are somehow magical and that 1 shot usually kills the target. Too much movie and TV drama crap that makes people believe that. Very rarely do people, or any large animal, dies from a single bullet wound.

 

[PokerGuy]

Sorry, didn't see that part. I thought the quoted bit was the bulk of the story.

Although I'm still kinda in doubt. Having a crowbar says 'burglar,' not 'PCP rage.' They still may have been 'fleeing' from someone who didn't know they were there, locked doors or not. Of course he 'busted through' doors if he thought he was alone. No need to be quiet.

Crowbar does say "burglar" and not "pcp rage", but much more likely is that once he was in and realized there was someone there, he turned his attention to them and was going to hurt them. He already knew they were there (he had heard them), and busted through three locked doors specifically to get to them. It's not like they were hiding and he just stumbled upon them, he busted doors to get to them, according to the police he "stalked" them.

Again, it's not defending a useless criminal...more just pointing out that the woman sounds like a f*cking idiot. For f*ck's fake, she's being applauded for missing six times at point blank.

Again, that's just wrong. She's not an idiot at all, she's a hero. She's not some trained law enforcement officer or anything, just a mom at home, scared out of her mind hiding with her kids in a closet to keep them safe while some criminal was busting through locked doors to harm them. I'm amazed that in that situation she was able to find/load/use the weapon at all. Kudos to her.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Sorry, didn't see that part. I thought the quoted bit was the bulk of the story.

Although I'm still kinda in doubt. Having a crowbar says 'burglar,' not 'PCP rage.' They still may have been 'fleeing' from someone who didn't know they were there, locked doors or not. Of course he 'busted through' doors if he thought he was alone. No need to be quiet.

I just don't see the 'I'M COMING TO RAPE AND MURDER YOU AT ALL COSTS, STRANGER' scenario being all that likely. Again, it's not defending a useless criminal...more just pointing out that the woman sounds like a fucking idiot. For fuck's fake, she's being applauded for missing six times at point blank.

(sorry, I'm not counting grazes)

I will say that it's more common than not for women to end up raped during home invasions when the home is occupied.

It's rarely reported due to the victim wanting the info to be confidential, but these types of people do not tie everyone up then pat you on the head and say ok have a great day.

 

[HumblePie]

The woman did EXACTLY what she needed to do. She stopped the attack against herself and her children. That is the point of a self defense gun. To STOP the threat. If that means the threat also dies while being stopped or that is the only way to stop the threat then so be it.

 

[phucheneh]

Uh. You're a moron. Yes, she's a real "fucking idiot". STFU/GTFO dumbass.

Sorry, just don't feel like jumping on the 'applaud the fear-mongering incompetent gun owner' bandwagon.

She might as well have fired a gun into the air and hit someone robbing an old woman across town.

Automatically saying 'a criminal got [sort of] shot! hooray, she's a hero!' is pretty fucking stupid.

What if she shot a criminal and a some guy watching TV in the house next door? Still a 'hero'?

edit: again, where does it say that she announced her presence? It really seems like she just hid and then reported that the guy was coming after them. Yes, I very well may be completely wrong. I just don't see the 'coming after them' thing as being very definite, and YES, I have automatic disdain for people who have firearms but obviously haven't trained to use them.

 

[Phoenix86]

....except this is not an "extreme case". The fact is that she's alive and unharmed today because she was armed and ready to use the weapon to defend her family. That's a good thing all around. In contrast, the Newton event was a tragedy that anti-gun-zealots want to exploit to push their agenda, even if the things they want to do would have had no impact on the tragedy even had they been previously implemented.

<-- not a 'gun nut', I don't own a gun.

Not extreme, but emotional, "Mother protecting her children"...

 

[HumblePie]

Sorry, just don't feel like jumping on the 'applaud the fear-mongering incompetent gun owner' bandwagon.

She might as well have fired a gun into the air and hit someone robbing an old woman across town.

Automatically saying 'a criminal got [sort of] shot! hooray, she's a hero!' is pretty fucking stupid.

What if she shot a criminal and a some guy watching TV in the house next door? Still a 'hero'?

That is why you do not use self defense rounds that have the potential to penetrate that far. Which was EXACTLY the case here. Responsible gun owner using the proper rounds to do the proper job of stopping the threat and not harming anyone else. And using her gun as a last resort AND after trying to retreat (although she didn't have to in her own home if she didn't want to). Yes she is a hero.

You do not know what being a hero means do you? It's do the hardest thing you have probably ever done in your life, or most anyone else's life that not many people would be capable of the same feat. Be that a war soldier defending his homeland, or philantropist making a new hospital wing. Both are hard accomplished feats that are for the greater good and not everyone would have been capable or even willing to do the same thing.

 

[PokerGuy]

Sorry, just don't feel like jumping on the 'applaud the fear-mongering incompetent gun owner' bandwagon.

Now you're just being a complete idiot. There's absolutely NOTHING to indicate any kind of "fear mongering" or "incompetent gun owner". In fact, she did everything exactly right. The sheriff even went out of his way to say that she did everything exactly right. First try to get away from harm if you can. She went through three locked doors and tried to hide from the criminal. She made sure she was armed. When she had no other choice, she shot the guy. So she isn't a great shot. So? She still did everything right.

What if she shot a criminal and a some guy watching TV in the house next door? Still a 'hero'?

That would be a tragic accident, and the criminal would be the one to blame.

 

[phucheneh]

Also

He allegedly rummaged through the home, eventually working his way up to the attic office.

I know when I'm violently chasing down a rape victim, I always rummage through all their shit first.

Woman is stupid.

edit: Okay, I'll just end this debate and agree with these people that've leaked out of P&N.

WOOHOO YAY AMURICA FUCK YEAH SHOOT THEM BLACKS

 

[darkswordsman17]

Uh, NO.

The intruder knew they were there, and busted through not one, not two, but three locked doors to get to them. Obviously, he meant to harm them, not 'just' rob the place. Had she not been armed, she and her kids would have been seriously hurt or killed.

The only unfortunate part is that the guy lived. :thumbsdown:

There's some contradictory info in these two stories. There's been more than enough bullshit spinning and its just getting worse as people try to find shit to support their cause.

I will say that it's more common than not for women to end up raped during home invasions when the home is occupied.

It's rarely reported due to the victim wanting the info to be confidential, but these types of people do not tie everyone up then pat you on the head and say ok have a great day.

You'll have to forgive me for "I will say" not exactly being the most reliable source of info especially from some random person on the Internet. I've seen enough completely made up bullshit from way too many people when it comes to stuff like this so please provide something resembling actual evidence.

 

[waggy]

The women did 100% the right thing. no matter what phucking idiots say.

she ran upstairs, she gave him plenty of chances to take shit and leave. he continued after them. breaking through doors to get to her.

At that point he proved he was a threat. She does not need to wait and see IF he is going to rape her or leave. He could have left with shit and didn't.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

You'll have to forgive me for "I will say" not exactly being the most reliable source of info especially from some random person on the Internet. I've seen enough completely made up bullshit from way too many people when it comes to stuff like this so please provide something resembling actual evidence.

I dated someone who did countless hours of research on home invasions for a dissertation. She had access to police reports and help from a state investigator.


The majority of the home invasions were 2-3 males who would bang on the door, if no one answered they would kick it down and enter the home while claiming to be police.

They would tie everyone up at gunpoint, one would guard the residents while the others robbed the home.

If a woman was in the home she would almost always be raped. I'm talking like >90% of the time.


This same scenario was played out over and over and over... While a separate issue this is why I have such a major issue with no knock warrants.. You have no idea if it's actually the police or not, and by the time you find out it's far too late.

 

[Phoenix86]

He proved he was a threat when he broke the front door open. The things that happened after that are really moot.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

The women did 100% the right thing. no matter what phucking idiots say.

she ran upstairs, she gave him plenty of chances to take shit and leave. he continued after them. breaking through doors to get to her.

At that point he proved he was a threat. She does not need to wait and see IF he is going to rape her or leave. He could have left with shit and didn't.

Keep in mind that some of our more vocal members feel as though someone should not shoot until they've been beaten to a point where their life is threatened. Generally this seems to compared to MMA fights, and you have to look worse than a badly beaten MMA fighter before it's ok to shoot.

Then, and only then, is it ok to produce a weapon. At that point you must give them a chance to stop attacking you before you shoot them.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

Sorry, just don't feel like jumping on the 'applaud the fear-mongering incompetent gun owner' bandwagon.

She might as well have fired a gun into the air and hit someone robbing an old woman across town.

Automatically saying 'a criminal got [sort of] shot! hooray, she's a hero!' is pretty fucking stupid.

What if she shot a criminal and a some guy watching TV in the house next door? Still a 'hero'?

edit: again, where does it say that she announced her presence? It really seems like she just hid and then reported that the guy was coming after them. Yes, I very well may be completely wrong. I just don't see the 'coming after them' thing as being very definite, and YES, I have automatic disdain for people who have firearms but obviously haven't trained to use them.

She could have double tapped him the second he crossed the threshold and still been 100% in the right. You have no obligation to announce yourself to a criminal invading your home.

 

[Theb]

Sorry, just don't feel like jumping on the 'applaud the fear-mongering incompetent gun owner' bandwagon.

She might as well have fired a gun into the air and hit someone robbing an old woman across town.

Automatically saying 'a criminal got [sort of] shot! hooray, she's a hero!' is pretty fucking stupid.

What if she shot a criminal and a some guy watching TV in the house next door? Still a 'hero'?

edit: again, where does it say that she announced her presence? It really seems like she just hid and then reported that the guy was coming after them. Yes, I very well may be completely wrong. I just don't see the 'coming after them' thing as being very definite, and YES, I have automatic disdain for people who have firearms but obviously haven't trained to use them.

Something is wrong with you.

 

[schneiderguy]

He proved he was a threat when he broke the front door open. The things that happened after that are really moot.

This.

 

[dmcowen674]

Sorry, just don't feel like jumping on the 'applaud the fear-mongering incompetent gun owner' bandwagon.

She might as well have fired a gun into the air and hit someone robbing an old woman across town.

Automatically saying 'a criminal got [sort of] shot! hooray, she's a hero!' is pretty fucking stupid.

What if she shot a criminal and a some guy watching TV in the house next door? Still a 'hero'?

edit: again, where does it say that she announced her presence? It really seems like she just hid and then reported that the guy was coming after them. Yes, I very well may be completely wrong. I just don't see the 'coming after them' thing as being very definite, and YES, I have automatic disdain for people who have firearms but obviously haven't trained to use them.

You think she is so wrong, why don't you put your money where your mouth is and post your address for the world of burglars with crowbars to see.

 

[Kroze]

Ban guns!

 

[bigrash]

Good for her. And she's lucky the guy didn't die, or she'd be in jail.