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Guitar porn- I need to borrow some money!!!

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Originally posted by: Fritzo
Well...it's official. The wife said "no". Said we had to buy things like "food" and "clothing".



Stupid wife :|
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Tell her to make you a sammich 😉

j/k... yeah it is probably a better idea. Of course, it is funny when they veto something like that and then come back home with 3-4 outfits the next day. I have witnessed it happening. 😉
 
Originally posted by: Fritzo
Originally posted by: DonVito
Famous or not, valuable or not, this is a dinosaur (i.e., an bloated, impractical relic of another era). I can't imagine what about this one would find beautiful. I like Led Zeppelin OK (though I feel they are wildly overrated), but don't even pretend to understand why anyone would want this thing, much less be willing to pay $15 - 25K for one.
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OK, this is a good reason to never trust any opinion you ever have. If anyone ever asks your advice, you'll now be required to show them this post so they will not listen to you.
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To each his own I guess, but IMO the SG was never meant to be beautiful, and a double-necked SG is even less so. To me calling this beast "beautiful" is like calling a Mack truck beautiful - it kind of ignores the fact that it was never meant to be.

FWIW I do think Jimmy Page is really talented, and like LZ, but I think LZ are overrated in that their music was SO derivative (hence the fact that they were successfully sued for copyright infringement for stealing Willie Dixon and Muddy Waters riffs), and Page's guitar work was impressive but sloppy - I think he was getting high too much of the time.
 
Originally posted by: DonVito
Page's guitar work was impressive but sloppy - I think he was getting high too much of the time.
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I have not listened to LZ in like 15 years, at least not since I started playing. Got into a streak a few weeks back and didn't realize how sloppy the solo on Heartbreaker was. Not saying I could play it any better, but wow, he fat-fingered a lot of notes on it. Never noticed it 'til now.
 
Recently on the Stern show they've been playing some clips of songs that LZ ripped off, and it's startling how shameless Jimmy Page was. I had known LZ lost lawsuits by some blues artists for stealing their songs (e.g., "The Lemon Song" is a complete ripoff of Howlin' Wolf's "Killing Floor"), but what I didn't know is that they stole some of their most famous material from contemporaries, including artists who'd opened up for them.

"Dazed and Confused" was stolen wholesale from a blues artist (I believe his name was Jake Holmes) who opened up for the Yardbirds, and the acoustic opening to "Stairway to Heaven" was stolen, note for note, from a song called "Taurus," by a band named Spirit, who opened up for LZ on their first American tour. In both cases, no writing credit was given, nor royalties paid. They also ripped off Willie Dixon's "You Need Lovin'" (covered by The Small Faces) to make "Whole Lotta Love," again, without giving any credit.

I still think LZ were impressive musicians, but they were also the biggest ripoff artists in modern music, and at this point I can't respect them at all.
 
Originally posted by: DonVito
Recently on the Stern show they've been playing some clips of songs that LZ ripped off, and it's startling how shameless Jimmy Page was. I had known LZ lost lawsuits by some blues artists for stealing their songs (e.g., "The Lemon Song" is a complete ripoff of Howlin' Wolf's "Killing Floor"), but what I didn't know is that they stole some of their most famous material from contemporaries, including artists who'd opened up for them.

"Dazed and Confused" was stolen wholesale from a blues artist (I believe his name was Jake Holmes) who opened up for the Yardbirds, and the acoustic opening to "Stairway to Heaven" was stolen, note for note, from a song called "Taurus," by a band named Spirit, who opened up for LZ on their first American tour. In both cases, no writing credit was given, nor royalties paid. They also ripped off Willie Dixon's "You Need Lovin'" (covered by The Small Faces) to make "Whole Lotta Love," again, without giving any credit.

I still think LZ were impressive musicians, but they were also the biggest ripoff artists in modern music, and at this point I can't respect them at all.
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As far as Western music is concerned, there isn't an original combination of notes left.
ALL musicians borrow from each other either directly or through derivations.
The simple fact that investigating those charges led you to the "original artist" shows the value of LZ's contribution. Without their adaption, it's unlikely anyone would remember the original.

Now as to the charge of ripping off people, that's a redundancy when you speak about music business.
It starts with the roadies, goes up through the various sidemen, contractors, and vendors.
Occasionally, the ones who do this ripping off, the mangler's , get ripped of themselves, usually by a promoter or a record company or an artist.

Don't shed a tear for any of them.
Support unknown artists and musicians, they really are more appreciative.

And they need the money far more than Jimmy Page ever will.

 
Originally posted by: AlienCraft

As far as Western music is concerned, there isn't an original combination of notes left.
ALL musicians borrow from each other either directly or through derivations.
The simple fact that investigating those charges led you to the "original artist" shows the value of LZ's contribution. Without their adaption, it's unlikely anyone would remember the original.

Now as to the charge of ripping off people, that's a redundancy when you speak about music business.
It starts with the roadies, goes up through the various sidemen, contractors, and vendors.
Occasionally, the ones who do this ripping off, the mangler's , get ripped of themselves, usually by a promoter or a record company or an artist.

Don't shed a tear for any of them.
Support unknown artists and musicians, they really are more appreciative.

And they need the money far more than Jimmy Page ever will.
Click to expand...

I see that as a really hollow defense. I'm not talking about ripoffs that are in any way subtle, indirect, or accidental - I'm talking about deliberate and wholesale theft. Led Zeppelin made millions of dollars with stolen songs, by recording and selling them without attribution. The rest of your post strikes me as irrelevant to the discussion - I am not (at least for purposes of this discussion) interested in roadies, managers, or record companies being ripped off - just the creators of the content.
 
No need to get the Jimmy Page signature edition, save some dough and buy the original. Thats what Page plays and Gibson has been making them pretty much none stop since the 60's

EDS-1275
 
Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
No need to get the Jimmy Page signature edition, save some dough and buy the original. Thats what Page plays and Gibson has been making them pretty much none stop since the 60's

EDS-1275
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The type he plays has a special bridge that hasn't been used since the early 70's. Also, this one has been reproduced scratch by scratch, nick by nick. It has every single detail of Page's instument- that makes it cool 🙂
 
Originally posted by: DonVito
Originally posted by: AlienCraft

As far as Western music is concerned, there isn't an original combination of notes left.
ALL musicians borrow from each other either directly or through derivations.
The simple fact that investigating those charges led you to the "original artist" shows the value of LZ's contribution. Without their adaption, it's unlikely anyone would remember the original.

Now as to the charge of ripping off people, that's a redundancy when you speak about music business.
It starts with the roadies, goes up through the various sidemen, contractors, and vendors.
Occasionally, the ones who do this ripping off, the mangler's , get ripped of themselves, usually by a promoter or a record company or an artist.

Don't shed a tear for any of them.
Support unknown artists and musicians, they really are more appreciative.

And they need the money far more than Jimmy Page ever will.
Click to expand...

I see that as a really hollow defense. I'm not talking about ripoffs that are in any way subtle, indirect, or accidental - I'm talking about deliberate and wholesale theft. Led Zeppelin made millions of dollars with stolen songs, by recording and selling them without attribution. The rest of your post strikes me as irrelevant to the discussion - I am not (at least for purposes of this discussion) interested in roadies, managers, or record companies being ripped off - just the creators of the content.
Click to expand...


You sound pretty naive. Nearly every famous band of the 60's stole their material from other artists...usually blues artists because they weren't well known and played a huge influence on rock music. Add to your list of groups you no longer respect The Rolling Stones, The Beatles, Jimi Hendrix, The Allman Brothers, Cream, Bob Dylan, and countless others. They've been sued too.
 
Originally posted by: Fritzo
Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
No need to get the Jimmy Page signature edition, save some dough and buy the original. Thats what Page plays and Gibson has been making them pretty much none stop since the 60's

EDS-1275
Click to expand...

The type he plays has a special bridge that hasn't been used since the early 70's. Also, this one has been reproduced scratch by scratch, nick by nick. It has every single detail of Page's instument- that makes it cool 🙂
Click to expand...

ABR-1 bridges can be bought for $50 each, and the scratches and nicks are free🙂

I have guitars with ABR-1's and tune-o-matic bridges and I actually prefer the tune-o-matic
 
Originally posted by: DonVito
Originally posted by: AlienCraft

As far as Western music is concerned, there isn't an original combination of notes left.
ALL musicians borrow from each other either directly or through derivations.
The simple fact that investigating those charges led you to the "original artist" shows the value of LZ's contribution. Without their adaption, it's unlikely anyone would remember the original.

Now as to the charge of ripping off people, that's a redundancy when you speak about music business.
It starts with the roadies, goes up through the various sidemen, contractors, and vendors.
Occasionally, the ones who do this ripping off, the mangler's , get ripped of themselves, usually by a promoter or a record company or an artist.

Don't shed a tear for any of them.
Support unknown artists and musicians, they really are more appreciative.

And they need the money far more than Jimmy Page ever will.
Click to expand...

I see that as a really hollow defense. I'm not talking about ripoffs that are in any way subtle, indirect, or accidental - I'm talking about deliberate and wholesale theft. Led Zeppelin made millions of dollars with stolen songs, by recording and selling them without attribution. The rest of your post strikes me as irrelevant to the discussion - I am not (at least for purposes of this discussion) interested in roadies, managers, or record companies being ripped off - just the creators of the content.
Click to expand...

I heard that as well and incidentally had read up on all of that a couple of weeks prior.

Personally, I don't fault them for using all the blues stuff that they did. Everyone in the blues does that. My issue was that they didn't give credit and payment to anyone for what they were doing. Especially for the gross thievery like The Lemon Song and Stairway to Heaven.

Also, the Lemon Song contains lyrics from Robert Johnson as well (the whole "squeeze my lemon 'til the juice runs down my leg" is from Traveling Riverside Blues which they ended up covering during their BBC sessions). Johnson was never credited, although, Howlin' Wolf now gets a credit on the song.
 
Originally posted by: Electric Amish
Originally posted by: hjo3
It looks ridiculous. Reminds me of those keyboard guitars that were around in the 80s...
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Yeah, maybe it looks funny to some, but wait until you hear it wail in the hands of a master like Page....
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Can I get a AMEN to that ...😎


That is one beautiful piece of work...:beer:
 
Originally posted by: pulse8
Originally posted by: DonVito
Originally posted by: AlienCraft

As far as Western music is concerned, there isn't an original combination of notes left.
ALL musicians borrow from each other either directly or through derivations.
The simple fact that investigating those charges led you to the "original artist" shows the value of LZ's contribution. Without their adaption, it's unlikely anyone would remember the original.

Now as to the charge of ripping off people, that's a redundancy when you speak about music business.
It starts with the roadies, goes up through the various sidemen, contractors, and vendors.
Occasionally, the ones who do this ripping off, the mangler's , get ripped of themselves, usually by a promoter or a record company or an artist.

Don't shed a tear for any of them.
Support unknown artists and musicians, they really are more appreciative.

And they need the money far more than Jimmy Page ever will.
Click to expand...

I see that as a really hollow defense. I'm not talking about ripoffs that are in any way subtle, indirect, or accidental - I'm talking about deliberate and wholesale theft. Led Zeppelin made millions of dollars with stolen songs, by recording and selling them without attribution. The rest of your post strikes me as irrelevant to the discussion - I am not (at least for purposes of this discussion) interested in roadies, managers, or record companies being ripped off - just the creators of the content.
Click to expand...

I heard that as well and incidentally had read up on all of that a couple of weeks prior.

Personally, I don't fault them for using all the blues stuff that they did. Everyone in the blues does that. My issue was that they didn't give credit and payment to anyone for what they were doing. Especially for the gross thievery like The Lemon Song and Stairway to Heaven.

Also, the Lemon Song contains lyrics from Robert Johnson as well (the whole "squeeze my lemon 'til the juice runs down my leg" is from Traveling Riverside Blues which they ended up covering during their BBC sessions). Johnson was never credited, although, Howlin' Wolf now gets a credit on the song.
Click to expand...

Before you start harping off on that "Stairway to Heaven" thing, the song only sound similar in the beginning "slow" part, and at that it's in a completely different key and different chord structure. About the only thing that's the same is the chord progression. This thing has been beat to death 20 years ago.
 
Originally posted by: Fritzo

Before you start harping off on that "Stairway to Heaven" thing, the song only sound similar in the beginning "slow" part, and at that it's in a completely different key and different chord structure. About the only thing that's the same is the chord progression. This thing has been beat to death 20 years ago.
Click to expand...

Have you ever heard "Taurus"? It sounds absolutely identical. You could mix it into "Stairway to Heaven" and not notice anything had changed.
 
Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
Originally posted by: Fritzo
Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
No need to get the Jimmy Page signature edition, save some dough and buy the original. Thats what Page plays and Gibson has been making them pretty much none stop since the 60's

EDS-1275
Click to expand...

The type he plays has a special bridge that hasn't been used since the early 70's. Also, this one has been reproduced scratch by scratch, nick by nick. It has every single detail of Page's instument- that makes it cool 🙂
Click to expand...

ABR-1 bridges can be bought for $50 each, and the scratches and nicks are free🙂

I have guitars with ABR-1's and tune-o-matic bridges and I actually prefer the tune-o-matic
Click to expand...

It's not just the bridge...look at how the strings are stretched all the way to the tail end of the guitar. This caused the guitar to resonate a bit more. Since these guitars were all custom made, it was 50-50 if you would get a guitar like this...it depended on the mood of the designer. Then in 71', they stopped making them with the extended tail all together. Also, this guitar has special pickups on it to match the output and wiring of Page's model.

Example 1: Mass Produced model

Example 2: Jimmy's 71' Custom Made model

This guitar is more of a museum piece than a player- but getting one off the shelf isn't the same thing.
 
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