Guess it's time to update all civics books in the US

[ayabe]

You guys need to watch this press briefing today with Dana Perino, aka 'teh hawtness', she basically contradicts herself and fails to answer questions but it's worth viewing.

Text

Some highlights:

QUESTION: What do you make of what Congressman Waxman referred to as absurd, which was the vice president?s contention that his office was not part of the executive branch?

PERINO: Well, I think ? as I said, I think that that is an interesting constitutional question that people can debate.

What I think is absurd is?

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: ? is Chairman Waxman?

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: I think what?s absurd is Chairman Waxman? **LOL nice answer hawtness**

 

[tomywishbone]

Cheney is the greatest American since Ho Chi Minh. Oh wait... Ho almost singlehandedly, destroyed America. Oh wait... I'm right.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: tomywishbone
Cheney is the greatest American since Ho Chi Minh. Oh wait... Ho almost singlehandedly, destroyed America. Oh wait... I'm right.

The greatest American since?

Maybe Joe McCarthy.

Or do we need to go back to Benedict Arnold?

But on second thought that won't work---they both served in the US military.

And the Vice President is somehow neither legislative or executive. One thing for sure---Cheney is something else. And with friends like that you sure don't need enemies.

 

[OrByte]

just watched the clip of Dana P.

you put that clip in front of 100 of your average police officers and you will get 100 responses saying that she is lying her ass off.

She can't speak..its painful to watch!

 

[bctbct]

Since Bush is now the "sole enforcer" do we even have branches anymore? It amazes me how many self serving provisions this administration keeps coming up with.

LIARS, THIEFS, CROOKS

 

[DaveSimmons]

I saw this on Fark, I have no idea how reliable "DailyKOS" is though:

--- DailyKOS
"Washington, D.C. ? House Democratic Caucus Chairman Rahm Emanuel issued the following statement regarding his amendment to cut funding for the Office of the Vice President from the bill that funds the executive branch. The legislation ? the Financial Services and General Government Appropriations bill -- will be considered on the floor of the House of Representatives next week.

"The Vice President has a choice to make. If he believes his legal case, his office has no business being funded as part of the executive branch. However, if he demands executive branch funding he cannot ignore executive branch rules. At the very least, the Vice President should be consistent. This amendment will ensure that the Vice President's funding is consistent with his legal arguments. I have worked closely with my colleagues on this amendment and will continue to pursue this measure in the coming days." "
--

Hah! If Cheney wants to pretend he's literally above the law (anything applying to the executive branch), why fund him as part of it?

 

[Lemon law]

Even if the repubs fail to filibuster the defunding or otherwise block it, when you are richer than God, who needs money when you can use the US military to steal any amount of money, oil, or natural resources from other countries. Whatever we do, don't make Cheney feel poorer and trigger his need to feed. Cheney is a pig and eats entire countries at a single gulp. And then forces us taxpayers to pay for the resulting garbage cleanup after he bites off more than he can chew and barfs all over the place.

If Cheney want to be in limbo, send him to the land of the impeached.---or the Hague---and see if they listen to his BS.

 

[Infohawk]

This administration is getting ridiculous. There are other reports of the president not enforcing certain laws that he doesn't like. He doesn't get to pick the laws; Congress does. These suckers need to be impeached.

 

[MadRat]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
This administration is getting ridiculous. There are other reports of the president not enforcing certain laws that he doesn't like. He doesn't get to pick the laws; Congress does. These suckers need to be impeached.

What are you rambling about picking laws? The executive branch has the priviledge of not enforcing laws it doesn't agree with. Its called a pardon.

 

[Lemon law]

Last report I saw, the administration was ignoring some 750 laws---some of which GWB signed as President. Thats better than 2 laws a day---for each and every day in a 365 day year. And still 18 left over in leap years.

Of course their AG Alberto is in a little bit of a problem over the reading and interpreting laws part, but thats what he was hired to do.

And pardons are only needed as last resort for the special few that actually get convicted when other blocking tactics fail.

 

[compuwiz1]

This will suddenly be over before we know it, unless they manage to change the country over to communism, in the short tenure they have left. Today, in America, there are only two sure things...Dick will die, and Bush will lie. :thumbsdown:

 

[trenchfoot]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Cheney and Bush both need to be taken out and publically bitch slapped. That take the sneers off their crooked faces....... for a little while anyway.

I'd watch that. :thumbsup:

hell, I'd even pay for front row seats to watch that.

 

[Jhhnn]

Heh. Cheney is a real piece of of work, that's for sure.

Having successfully claimed executive privilege wrt the energy taskforce, he now claims he's not part of the executive branch. As the old saying goes, old whiteman speak with forked tongue...

Of course, somewhere down the road he'll be able to claim "I never said that, absolutely not." and will be believed and defended by his devotees. There really is nothing stronger than the irrationality of conservative branding in american politics- they'll believe anything, if it has the right label... if constructed to appeal to the conditioning of 30 years of rightwing thinktank drivel provided via talk radio and faux news...

 

[Lemon law]

In some ways there is a silver lining here because Cheney has brought an undefined issue to a point where it will likely be resolved. And no future Vice-President will be able to claim
the have it in the both ways position Cheney is now claiming for himself. But to do that the conflict will have to be somehow tested--either in congress or in the courts. And I am certainly hoping that it will be tested---and my bias may be showing when I wish for a big Cheney loss. But even if it does not, having the Vice Presidential powers defined is better than having it undefined with both congress and the VP making a battlefield out of the American public.

 

[fskimospy]

What I don't get is why he's trying to pull all this crap. The vice president is someone who participates in the president's cabinet. I think its pretty clear that makes him a member of the executive.

It seems that Cheney's obsessive secrecy is bordering on clinical paranoia at this point. I mean, I'm reading reports that are saying even talking points memos for the press are being designated top secret, that all visitors logs to the vice president are being destroyed, etc... etc. I mean Cheney's a super big scumbag, and I'm sure he has plenty of things to hide, but this level of secrecy doesn't even seem to be rational anymore.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
What I don't get is why he's trying to pull all this crap. The vice president is someone who participates in the president's cabinet. I think its pretty clear that makes him a member of the executive.
It seems that Cheney's obsessive secrecy is bordering on clinical paranoia at this point. I mean, I'm reading reports that are saying even talking points memos for the press are being designated top secret, that all visitors logs to the vice president are being destroyed, etc... etc. I mean Cheney's a super big scumbag, and I'm sure he has plenty of things to hide, but this level of secrecy doesn't even seem to be rational anymore.

It's not clear at all. Why would a member of the executive branch have the authority to vote in Congress? Wouldnt this responsibility, which IMHO is the most prominant responsibility, then make him part of the legislative branch?

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: eskimospy
What I don't get is why he's trying to pull all this crap. The vice president is someone who participates in the president's cabinet. I think its pretty clear that makes him a member of the executive.
It seems that Cheney's obsessive secrecy is bordering on clinical paranoia at this point. I mean, I'm reading reports that are saying even talking points memos for the press are being designated top secret, that all visitors logs to the vice president are being destroyed, etc... etc. I mean Cheney's a super big scumbag, and I'm sure he has plenty of things to hide, but this level of secrecy doesn't even seem to be rational anymore.</end quote></div>

It's not clear at all. Why would a member of the executive branch have the authority to vote in Congress? Wouldnt this responsibility, which IMHO is the most prominant responsibility, then make him part of the legislative branch?

I'd buy that, but then why has he been claiming executive privilege for the past 6 years?

 

[Lemon law]

Lets not compare a VP to a cabinet member. Even though the constitution has been amended to redefine how the VP is selected. A cabinet member requires the advice and consent of the senate in the confirmation process and the VP does not.

And like the President, the role a VP plays somewhat is a matter of the bully pulpit. They make their own power. And oddly two strong Presidents who used to be VP's had minimal powers when they were VP's simply because their President's somewhat loathed them.---which was true for both Nixon and LBJ. And even today, a VP is usually selected for being someone who can balance the ticket of the larger President. And be acceptable because they have what the President lacks.

 

[fskimospy]

Well we can not call him a cabinet member if you guys don't want to, but his post is specifically designated as a cabinet level administrative one.

As to whether its clear or not, it really is. All legal and regulatory precedent over the last few centuries places him firmly in the executive branch of government. I guess you could make the argument that he would ALSO be subject to rules governing the legislature as well, but that only makes things worse for him.

If this is legally challenged he will lose, and lose badly. Cheney's record with his creative interpretations of the law has been pretty abysmal so far, and it will not change with this.

EDIT: Oh, and I just wanted to say if you're a Republican and even Brit Hume says you're full of $hit, you're screwed.

 

[bsobel]

As to whether its clear or not, it really is. All legal and regulatory precedent over the last few centuries places him firmly in the executive branch of government. I guess you could make the argument that he would ALSO be subject to rules governing the legislature as well, but that only makes things worse for him.

Factually your wrong. And I admit it's a bit funny as even I had to go pull some docs to read up, I'll admit to just presuming along with everyone else. I mean it sounded pretty obvious he was in the executive branch didn't it? Ironically Cheney looks to be technically correct, and the correctness is going to hurt bad as executive privledge is lifted. Two simple data points (which I have already mentioned)

a) His SOLE constitutional duty is that of president of the senate. That is the core purpose of his job. It's 'become more' over the years, but any constitutional interpretation of his status is going to come down to that simple fact.

b) He is paid by the senate not the executive branch.

As LemonLaw pointed out, he's going to force this to a head but he's played both sides and will lose whichever way this goes.

 

[Jhhnn]

I think the SCOTUS would beg to differ, bsobel. IIRC, they've already ruled in the matter of the now infamous energy taskforce, granting executive privilege.

Sometimes, what's done is done, and I really can't see the Court reversing themselves, certainly not so soon, anyway...

 

[DaveSimmons]

I wonder if not being in the executive branch means anything else besides losing the shield of executive privilege?

- access to classified documents?
- travel on military transport?
- ???

Are all of the perks and powers the VP has accumulated over the decades now subject to review and removal by the Senate?

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: bsobel
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>As to whether its clear or not, it really is. All legal and regulatory precedent over the last few centuries places him firmly in the executive branch of government. I guess you could make the argument that he would ALSO be subject to rules governing the legislature as well, but that only makes things worse for him.</end quote></div>

Factually your wrong. And I admit it's a bit funny as even I had to go pull some docs to read up, I'll admit to just presuming along with everyone else. I mean it sounded pretty obvious he was in the executive branch didn't it? Ironically Cheney looks to be technically correct, and the correctness is going to hurt bad as executive privledge is lifted. Two simple data points (which I have already mentioned)

a) His SOLE constitutional duty is that of president of the senate. That is the core purpose of his job. It's 'become more' over the years, but any constitutional interpretation of his status is going to come down to that simple fact.

b) He is paid by the senate not the executive branch.

As LemonLaw pointed out, he's going to force this to a head but he's played both sides and will lose whichever way this goes.

Oh, I know both that his pay comes from the Senate pay, and that he is only mentioned as President of the Senate. Regardless, he is part of the executive branch. It may sound silly, but accumulated precedent and the simple realities of day to day governance will win out. I'm so certain I'd bet money on it. There is just no way that any court will so radically alter the functioning of the government based upon Senate pay scales.

 

[RightIsWrong]

It seems as if Alberto is going to be drug into this pretty deep as well.

Why didn't Gonzales act on Leonard's request? His aides assured reporters that Leonard's letter has been "under review" for the past five months?by Justice's Office of Legal Counsel (OLC). But on June 4, an OLC lawyer denied a Freedom of Information Act request about the Cheney dispute asserting that OLC had "no documents" on the matter, according to a copy of the letter obtained by NEWSWEEK. Steve Aftergood, the Federation of American Scientists researcher who filed the request, said he found the denial letter "puzzling and inexplicable"?especially since Leonard had copied OLC chief Steve Bradbury on his original letter to Gonzales. The FOIA response has piqued the interest of congressional investigators, who note Bradbury is the same official in charge of vetting all document requests from Congress about the U.S. attorneys flap. Asked about the apparent discrepancy, Justice spokesman Brian Roehrkasse said the OLC response "was and remains accurate" because Leonard's letter had generated no "substantive work product."

Either AG AG is lying again or is showing that he truly is utterly and completely incompetent.

Good 'ol down-home linkage.

 

[glugglug]

Nothing surprises me from this rotten to the core administration.

But I do have one question concerning this:

If Cheney is impeached & found guilty of treason, does Haliburton still get the no-bid contract to build the freedom tower? What if he is proven complicit in 9/11?