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gtx970 vs. rx480 Doom.. peculiar image quality discrepency

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coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
4,184
5,120
136


This is Kitty, she's lossless, and alpha channeled, and she likes to talk about GTX 970 and RX 480 and Doom and other games that might have texture streaming issues.

So let's all say Hello Kitty and get back to the freaking topic!
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
894
126
"Except you absolutely do have a way of telling how much vaseline it applies to what parts of the image, namely due to the fact that no encoder in existence will selectively "vaseline" specific textures and nothing else on the image."

So how does the encoder decide how much detail it removes from a scene to compress to a certain bitrate?

"Repeating this doesn't make it any more relevant or correct. Lossless images are still not necessary, no matter how many times you keep claiming it."

I didn't say it was a necessity, I said I disagree with using them at this point in the discussion. Did I actually say this? If so, I apologise, that's not what I meant to imply.

"The only notable difference between video compression and image compression is the possibility of interframe compression with videos, but again that will never result in the kind of errors we are seeing here."

Exactly, so on the video are you comparing a I frame, B frame or P frame?

Again, let me quote myself:
"But then, again, if you all want to discuss this based on Youtube footage, then I don't have a problem with this. I just agree with the criticisms that now an initial investigation has been done with Youtube footage, someone should get looking at lossless pictures."

So you guys can keep arguing with me if you like, but it won't change my opinion on this discussion.
Why do you believe someone should look at lossless pictures? The problem is real and looking at lossless pictures would only show that there is a problem. Lossless pictures will not help understand what is causing the problem, so why do you keep saying we should look at lossless pictures?
 

antihelten

Golden Member
Feb 2, 2012
1,764
274
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So you guys can keep arguing with me if you like, but it won't change my opinion on this discussion.
Yes, it has become quite clear to me now that you have zero interest in actually learning anything about how encoders actually behave (and thus why they are irrelevant in this case), so I'm not going to bother anymore.
 

David_k

Member
Apr 25, 2016
70
1
41
"A few people have mentioned the RX 480 looks sharper and slightly different colour than the 1060 in some games. The reason for this is due to recording the display from a camcorder and at different times for each card. The white balance is different and focal range may not be exactly the same.
"
First comment on the video, by the uploader..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQmbtVz972A

Ofc people would ignore this "little fact" just to bash the other company, I'm sure if this was some "nvidia reddit" they would do the same, but still, its getting out of hand, people and their bias against one company.
 
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Bacon1

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2016
3,430
1,013
91
First comment on the video, by the uploader..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQmbtVz972A

Ofc people would ignore this "little fact" just to bash the other company, I'm sure if this was some "nvidia reddit" they would do the same, but still, its getting out of hand, people and their bias against one company.
https://youtu.be/NQmbtVz972A?t=180

Time is the same in game. Not sure why using a camcorder would only make Nvidia look worse not AMD.



Has anyone confirmed that the missing snow bug was ever fixed in Nvidia drivers for Ashes? Seems like lots of reviews have shown AMD with higher IQ but it never gets investigated and either dispelled or confirmed.
 
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TheRyuu

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2005
5,479
14
81
What do you think there is to gain at this point looking at lossless images? Do you think that will somehow help show what is causing the issue?
Your point is valid but, what's happening with that handkerchief has nothing to do with video compression.
I think we just differ on what constitutes proof. I don't want to assume that something can't possibly be caused by compression, just remove that variable all together and it's not even an issue. In fact you're probably right that it can't be caused by the compression.

That's really the only point I'm trying to make here. I've never once said that this issue isn't real, just that using Youtube videos as the definitive proof isn't a very scientific way of going about it. I'm not trying to take sides, I'm just trying to be scientific about it. I don't believe there can be "sides" on issues which can be objectively proven scientifically.
 
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David_k

Member
Apr 25, 2016
70
1
41
https://youtu.be/NQmbtVz972A?t=180

Time is the same in game. Not sure why using a camcorder would only make Nvidia look worse not AMD.



Has anyone confirmed that the missing snow bug was ever fixed in Nvidia drivers for Ashes? Seems like lots of reviews have shown AMD with higher IQ but it never gets investigated and either dispelled or confirmed.
You can see that the text is blurry on the nvidia side so nothing with rendering, and even if there is, you cant know from this video.
He stated that he captured both videos at different time, clearly the focus was more accurate with the amd video and not the nvidia one, TBH, the question is why didn't he use a capture card like any normal person, instead of showing half assed out of focus video.
 

VulgarDisplay

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2009
6,194
2
76
You can see that the text is blurry on the nvidia side so nothing with rendering, and even if there is, you cant know from this video.
He stated that he captured both videos at different time, clearly the focus was more accurate with the amd video and not the nvidia one, TBH, the question is why didn't he use a capture card like any normal person, instead of showing half assed out of focus video.
It's definitely blurry but being out of focus doesn't magically make texture detail disappear. Look at the ground the 1060 has basically no detail in that texture.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
 

Deders

Platinum Member
Oct 14, 2012
2,401
1
91
https://youtu.be/NQmbtVz972A?t=180

Time is the same in game. Not sure why using a camcorder would only make Nvidia look worse not AMD.



Has anyone confirmed that the missing snow bug was ever fixed in Nvidia drivers for Ashes? Seems like lots of reviews have shown AMD with higher IQ but it never gets investigated and either dispelled or confirmed.
Interestingly enough this looks like an example where video encoding at some stage of the creation of the video has had an effect. It looks like the one on the right has been encoded at a much lower rate than the one on the left before combining and uploading.

The encoding artifacts are huge on the right, yet non existent on the left.
 

Enigmoid

Platinum Member
Sep 27, 2012
2,910
31
91
It's definitely blurry but being out of focus doesn't magically make texture detail disappear. Look at the ground the 1060 has basically no detail in that texture.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
Perhaps this is true but the image is simply so bad that such as comparison cannot be made.

IMO, that particular video must be discredited entirely. There isn't even an attempt to compare apples to apples - look at the image, the 1060 side is larger (and thus smeared out) compared to the 480 (on my screen 10.3 cm wide for AMD vs. 11.9 cm wide on the 1060). Its zoomed in, look at the minimap.
 

Zstream

Diamond Member
Oct 24, 2005
3,397
277
136
Interestingly enough this looks like an example where video encoding at some stage of the creation of the video has had an effect. It looks like the one on the right has been encoded at a much lower rate than the one on the left before combining and uploading.

The encoding artifacts are huge on the right, yet non existent on the left.
Look at the pathway - nothing to do with encoding
 

Udgnim

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2008
3,652
67
91
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQmbtVz972A

glancing through the video

see Witcher 3 difference but the Nvidia side is more zoomed in than the AMD side

see some kind of color / gamma / contrast / brightness difference between AMD & Nvidia on Hitman & Thief

reading the game footage is based off of a camera recording instead of in-game capture so there's no point putting a lot of stock into the visual differences

shouldn't be hard to take very similar still screenshots on both cards for comparison if someone cares enough to do so
 

Erenhardt

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2012
3,251
105
101
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQmbtVz972A

glancing through the video

see Witcher 3 difference but the Nvidia side is more zoomed in than the AMD side

see some kind of color / gamma / contrast / brightness difference between AMD & Nvidia on Hitman & Thief

reading the game footage is based off of a camera recording instead of in-game capture so there's no point putting a lot of stock into the visual differences

shouldn't be hard to take very similar still screenshots on both cards for comparison if someone cares enough to do so
Yes, lets do screengrabs.
I suggest doing so with ANSEL. (32x resolution factor)
 

vissarix

Senior member
Jun 12, 2015
286
91
101
Lol at people trying to discredit the legendary gtx970, o dont remember a gpu which sold more then this...looking at steam surveys the gtx 970 sells more then the entire amd gpu's line put together😆😆

If this is not ownage i dont what else it could be, also these threads always coming after someone misses their goals by a huge amount...remember fury x vs gtx 980ti fury x got owned and thread about different quality image between those two on bf4 came out...and surprise surprise the same happens here, rx480 owned by the gtx1060 and this thread comes out...again nothing to see here just pure trolling...
 

master_shake_

Diamond Member
May 22, 2012
6,430
291
121
Lol at people trying to discredit the legendary gtx970, o dont remember a gpu which sold more then this...looking at steam surveys the gtx 970 sells more then the entire amd gpu's line put together����

If this is not ownage i dont what else it could be, also these threads always coming after someone misses their goals by a huge amount...remember fury x vs gtx 980ti fury x got owned and thread about different quality image between those two on bf4 came out...and surprise surprise the same happens here, rx480 owned by the gtx1060 and this thread comes out...again nothing to see here just pure trolling...
it's funny how people try to validate their purchase by ignoring obvious deficiencies with their product.

i mean missing textures are something you should be angry about.
 

Flapdrol1337

Golden Member
May 21, 2014
1,677
93
91
I don't get this topic.

This is what megatexture has always done. If amd specific vulkan codepaths do it faster good for them, but it's not up to nvidia to "fix" this "issue", nor is it a performance cheat.
 
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Zstream

Diamond Member
Oct 24, 2005
3,397
277
136
I don't get this topic.

This is what megatexture has always done. If amd specific vulkan codepaths do it faster good for them, but it's not up to nvidia to "fix" this "issue".
Isn't that only ID? What about the hitman and other game issues? It might have a small percentage difference in FPS, but the issue of Nvidia having better drivers is getting old.
 

amenx

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2004
2,783
539
126
You can see that the text is blurry on the nvidia side so nothing with rendering, and even if there is, you cant know from this video.
He stated that he captured both videos at different time, clearly the focus was more accurate with the amd video and not the nvidia one, TBH, the question is why didn't he use a capture card like any normal person, instead of showing half assed out of focus video.
Both screens look like crap to me, of course more so the Nvidia one. However I am very familiar with Witcher 3 and played it extensively on my 970 and it never looked remotely like either one of these screens. Everything was razor sharp throughout my gameplay and if anything remotely looked like that on one of the best looking games, I would give up gaming. Plus the right screen is so obviously bad it would have caused a scandal by now. Here we are 2 years later and someone comes up with this. :rolleyes:

There is one setting that I've always hated in most games and that is bloom, which sometimes gives a washed out sort of effect like a lowered gamma level. I disabled it in most games that had it.
 

amenx

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2004
2,783
539
126
https://youtu.be/NQmbtVz972A?t=180

Time is the same in game. Not sure why using a camcorder would only make Nvidia look worse not AMD.



Has anyone confirmed that the missing snow bug was ever fixed in Nvidia drivers for Ashes? Seems like lots of reviews have shown AMD with higher IQ but it never gets investigated and either dispelled or confirmed.
Both screens look like crap to me, of course more so the Nvidia one. However I am very familiar with Witcher 3 and played it extensively on my 970 and it never looked remotely like either one of these screens. Everything was razor sharp throughout my gameplay and if anything remotely looked like that on one of the best looking games, I would give up gaming. Plus the right screen is so obviously bad it would have caused a scandal by now. Here we are 2 years later and someone comes up with this. :rolleyes:

There is one setting that I've always hated in most games and that is bloom, which sometimes gives a washed out sort of effect like a lowered gamma level. I disabled it in most games that had it.
 

Yakk

Golden Member
May 28, 2016
1,574
272
81
Reading more and more about texture pop issues...

It looks like we need to start benchmarking texture loads.

Like anything else texture load & processing could be put on a lower priority thread in order to keep FPS up by sacrificing visual quality. While some people may be OK with this compromise, others won't be.

If this visual degradation is happening (again) then make it an option. I know I can't stand texture popping, and playing in 4K will just magnify the issue.
 

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