GTX670 Upgrade and Overclocking Review (vs. 5850 crossfire)

Termie

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Introduction - 5/14/12

I will be running a few games and benchmarking applications to see what type of increase I get. I'm guessing anywhere from 0% to 20%. Will also look for any improvements in minimums or microstutter (honestly not sure if I'm experiencing it, but this should help determine that). Also looking to drop idle power draw by 25w and load power draw by 125w. And yes, I'm ready for the "sidegrade" comments - I'm doing this mostly for the power use reduction, and just for the fun of it. I don't actually have any issues with my 5850s.

You can see my rig specs in my sig - will be running this on my i7-860 at 3.5GHz, and unless I start to see serious bottlenecking, won't be increasing it above that. The HD5850s were clocked at 850/1200, the GTX670 I'll keep at stock to start, and then I'll see what I can do with the limited options allowed by nVidia.

Here are the applications I'll be benching, all at 1920x1200 (except for 3dMark11):

Battlefield 3 (single-player and multiplayer)
Metro 2033
Dragon Age II
Borderlands
3dMark11
Heaven 3.0


Conclusions - 5/15/12

Overall, the 670 just about met my expecations. Surprisingly, both stock and overclocked, it was beat by the Crossfired 5850s in several games, but handily beat the 5850s by 12-17% in benchmarks, while also notching better minimums in practically all tests. Idle power dropped 23w, load power dropped about 125w depending on the game.

In my opinion, many reviewers have praised the 670 for its overclocking and efficiency, but they are in part making the same mistake we might all make in our frustration at the initial overpricing of the HD7000 series - they have overcompensated.

The reference GTX670 is not a great overclocker, relative to modern cards. While some reviewers did better than my 13% offset, I haven't seen many reviews where the boost of 1058 was raised to more than 1234, which is a 16% overclock (calling this a 35% overclock over the 915 stock clock is just disingenous, BTW, and reviewers should know that). Same for the memory - absolute highest I've seen is 7GHz, or 17%, and I bet that wasn't stable. I'm settling at 10%, with a bit of a safety margin built in. At one time ~15% was considered pretty good (that's about what I got on my 5850 cores), but compared to the better 7000-series cards (7970, 7850), it isn't even close.

On the other hand, the GTX670 is massively efficient. The highest power draw I've seen is 280w, compared to 410w for my crossfire pair (and about 265w for a single OC'd 5850), with at least equivalent performance. That's an amazing improvement over generations past in terms of performance per watt. When I eventually SLI this card, sometime next year, I will again have performance to spare over any existing single card, and will still be well under 450w at load. I am now more convinced than ever that the slowing pace of GPU improvement makes Crossfire/SLI absolutely the best way to experience next-gen performance today. I truly enjoyed my 5850 Crossfire setup - it dramatically improved my BF3 gaming experience. I now have about the same performance in a single card, and when the time comes, I'll be ready to SLI for the next generation of games.

Update - 5/16/12

With the GTX600 series more than ever, enabling vsync (or Adaptive Vsync in this case) has very tangible performance benefits. In addition to reducing tearing, it keeps temps down. While this is nice on any card, with the nature of 600-series boost, it's a real feature. The GTX670 automatically reduces voltage from 1.175 to 1.162 as soon as it hits 70C, making a boost above 1200 impossible, from my testing. This makes overclocking a whole new ballgame. You absolutely have to run a high fan speed or buy a card with a non-reference open air cooler.

When the card is under 70C with Adaptive Vsync on, and a difficult to render scene appears, boost can shoot up dramatically to handle the rendering chores until that scene passes, or until "boost runs out" (i.e., temps get too high). So to all those 670/680 owners out there, seriously consider enabling Adaptive Vsync - it really was made to work hand-in-hand with GPU Boost. You weren't going to see those extra frames (>60fps) anyway, except in your benchmarks. ;)

Happy gaming, folks!

Update - 5/17/12

Well, nothing is simple in hardware upgrades, it seems...I realized yesterday that enabling Adaptive Vsync introduces terrible input lag, at least in BF3. This is not visible in benchmarks, where there is no input involved. For now I've switched back to using the Frame Rate Target in PrecisionX, but this doesn't have the same level of interaction with the 670 drivers, meaning that it doesn't reduce clocks to compensate for the lower load, and therefore isn't quite as efficient. Edit: I think the problem was enabling Vsync after a game had already been loaded. Just played a few rounds and it worked fine without stuttering, but I enabled Adaptive Vsync before loading BF3. This is unlike regular vsync, which you can turn on and off at any time within the game menu.
 
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Termie

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3dMark11

6703dmark11.jpg

Stock

670oc1253dmark11.jpg

OC'd

Right off the bat, the 670 is just barely inching by the 5850 duo, and actually loses in the first test even with the OC. Note: in Graphics Test 4, which is tesselation heavy, the 670oc beats the 5850s by 25%.


Heaven 3.0

heaven670stock.jpg

Stock

heaven670125.jpg

OC'd

Again, barely beating OC'd 5850s, except in the minimum...could be a sign of things to come. For the gaming tests below, I include the 5850 results for easy reference.



Borderlands

borderlands670.jpg


This may not look like much, but it played much smoother on the 670. And look at that power use - holy cow! Note that this game presents such a low load (due to vsync) that the 670 almost never boosts. The 5850s were running hard to keep up with the vsync limit...not so with the 670, which is practically idling.


Dragon Age II

da2670.jpg


This is not pretty...total loss for the 670. The crossfire scaling in this game is flat out amazing.


Metro 2033

metro670.jpg


Not a chance for the 670 here...this is a game that favors AMD. Only the mimimums and the lower power use allow it to save some face. Some readers have disputed that this game favors AMD. Please review this chart to see why my statement is justified even though this is a TWIMTBP game: http://guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-670-review/17


Battlefield 3

caspianandsingle.jpg


Well, I've got better minimums and much lower power use, but that's about it, folks...I've got a hunch that the 1GB VRAM on the 5850s is preventing this game from actually running at ultra textures, and therefore the 5850s were doing less work. That's based on information made public by DICE on the streaming of ultra textures on cards lower than 1.5GB.
 
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Termie

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bf3ocscaling.jpg



I'm going to settle on +135 offset, +300 on the memory, which gives me about 1194 core boost, 6600 memory. Here's what that looks like in 3dMark11:

3dmark11670oc1356600.jpg

OC +135/6600MHz

This gives me a theoretical 16% advantage over my overclocked 5850 tandem (comparing the graphics score only), right in line with my expectations. It's also 13% higher than a stock 670 - also in line with expectations for a +135 boost (13%).

Here is Unigine with the same overclock of +135/6600. It boosted to 1202 during the entire benchmark except for a few seconds where it hit 70C and dropped voltage - then boost was at 1194, but that shouldn't make a huge difference. If I do it again, I'll just max fan for the test.

1356600.jpg




I also ran 3dMark11 at +150/6700, which provides just slightly better performance (right in line with the 1% higher clocks on core/memory):

3dmark11670oc1506700.jpg

OC +150/6700MHz

This isn't stable in Heaven, so I'm going to leave it at +135 for now.

Update: 5/16/12

Tried pushing to +165 offset, hard crash with graphical errors.

Looks like I can get to +150 without problems, but the boost doesn't always kick in. Seems to prefer being below 70C - I saw a boost all the way to 1228MHz with a +150 offset. This was while running adaptive vsync, which kept the temps way down. When temps are above 70C, the most I get is 1202MHz.

While a number of review sites pushed the reference design to 1234 boost, this is always with 80% fan, which is max for this card. While I don't doubt that could help keep temps low enough for 1234 boost, it's far too loud to be taken seriously as a gaming option. My fan is on a profile taking it to about 55% above 70C.

On a related note, I've found that Adaptive Vsync is pretty effective, but something is wrong with "Frame Rate Target", another option in PrecisionX. Seems to introduce tearing, which is definitely not the objective, so I'm not using that (edit: I've since read that you have to engage it before starting a game). Also, keep in mind that the voltage controls that appear in Precision (but blanked out in Afterburner), should not be used. They only increase temps, which will reduce boost and hence framerates. Saw this explained in a video on the EVGA website.

Update- 5/17/12

Did a bit more refining of the core offset. Turns out that an offset of +125 consistently takes me to 1184, an offset of +135 consistently takes me to 1194, but an ofset of +150 only takes me to 1202. At first I thought this was the hard limit of my card, but then I occasionally saw higher boosts. So on a hunch, I tried +151, which consistently takes me to 1215. I can't explain it, other than to say it must have to do with the fact that boost only comes in certain increments, and 150 must have been just under the next threshold. Thus +151 was enough to get me to the next boost level. An offset of +155 results in a driver crash, so I know my max offset is just about +151.

Here are some sample boost levels I've seen:

At stock: 1058, 1071, 1084
At +125: 1184
At +135: 1194
At +150: 1202
At +151: 1215
 
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Termie

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Just 1 670? ;)

LOL, yeah, for now, but TechPowerUp's new review of GTX670 SLI has me thinking...come Haswell, I might need moar GPU power!!!

Were your 5850's overclocked? Do you plan to overclock the gtx670? Please at least say yes to question #2!

Yes and yes. But I'm not going to shoot for the moon - I'm going to go for a nice, stable overclock on the GTX670. I've seen reviews getting something around 1230 boost, so I guess that will be my target, but I've got to get the hang of overclocking Kepler first.
 

tviceman

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LOL, yeah, for now, but TechPowerUp's new review of GTX670 SLI has me thinking...come Haswell, I might need moar GPU power!!!



Yes and yes. But I'm not going to shoot for the moon - I'm going to go for a nice, stable overclock on the GTX670. I've seen reviews getting something around 1230 boost, so I guess that will be my target, but I've got to get the hang of overclocking Kepler first.

Sorry I missed that last part on your OP. I look forward to seeing what your results are!
 

Termie

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All benchmarking complete on 5850 crossfire. Results include both stock and overclocked settings. Generally, 850/1200 performs 10-15% faster than 725/1000, except in Borderlands, which had a vsync cap.

Wish me luck - these puppies are coming out and the 670 is going in...
 
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Termie

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I think you'll be happy. How are the noise levels of two overclocked hd5850's?

Noise is actually not a problem - I'd say it's quieter than when I had one card, actually, as I'm not always at 100% GPU usage with crossfire. This allows the GPUs to run cooler and the fans to spin down a bit. Max fans would be about 37%, whereas with a single card I'd often run the fan at 42%. Could be a CPU limitation, but I don't think so - just the slight inefficiency of Crossfire scaling, which means the GPUs are not always at full capacity. My dual card scaling was 85% in BF3, so it was definitely working right.

Shutting down for a card change now...
 

Termie

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And we're up and running. A few observations:

(1) Right off the bat I can hear that grinding sound from the fan that others have talked about. Hmmm.

(2) Idle power is now down to 62w. Very nice - probably dropped beneath 85% efficiency on my Seasonic x650, so didn't get the full 25w drop I thought I would, only got 23w.

(3) Card is very compact for high-end, but time will tell if this compact size was ideal for the GTX670.
 
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Termie

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^ Your EVGA card was making grinding sounds?D:

Yeah, the fan does not have a very smooth sound. Seems like cheap bearings. But overall, the fan does not get that loud. It's this mechanical sound others have mentioned.

What is your 670 boosting to at stock?

Boosts between 1058 and 1071 - seems like 1058 most of the time.

Now testing the overclock. With a +150 offset, it's boosting to 1228 (actually 1202 in 3dMark11). Have memory at +200 (6400). Hard lock at +200 offset.
 
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BallaTheFeared

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I think someone said you could RMA it and EVGA would upgrade you to the full PCB superclocked card.

Maybe that's for another issue, I would return it though $400+ for something a $50 card wouldn't do is unacceptable for me.


Also as far as overclocking goes I'd focus on vram speed and not core clocks.
 

cmdrdredd

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I think someone said you could RMA it and EVGA would upgrade you to the full PCB superclocked card.

Maybe that's for another issue, I would return it though $400+ for something a $50 card wouldn't do is unacceptable for me.


Also as far as overclocking goes I'd focus on vram speed and not core clocks.

You can only RMA the SC card not the normal one. You get the FTW edition in exchange. There are specific issues with the SC cards. They are the overclocked editions on the small PCB.

The fan noise appears on every reference card. I've seen it mentioned in reviews using the provided reference cards from Nvidia. It's nothing wrong, it's just mechanical noise. No different than some cards having the whine at times that doesn't affect anything.
 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
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Yeah, the fan does not have a very smooth sound. Seems like cheap bearings. But overall, the fan does not get that loud. It's this mechanical sound others have mentioned.

They're charging $400 for that!!! They really should have a better HSF for an expensive card.
 

guskline

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Apr 17, 2006
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Termie, Great post. The 5850s are venerable but powerful. As to the GTX 670 WOW you can really see the strength of this card. 5850s were nothing to sneeze at and a single GTX 670 matches OC'd 5850s when the GTX 670 is running at stock. Moreover, it has all the new features and double the Vram. Nice job on the diagnostics. Have fun.
 

Termie

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Ladies and gentleman of the jury, I present to you evidence that may cause great shock amongst you:

Battlefield 3

caspianandsingle.jpg


Unless something drastic changes, it looks like this "upgrade" was a complete wash. 5850 crossfire was just too strong. The only appreciable gains I've made are on wattage, down a solid 125w (which is what I had estimated). The only gaming benefit is in minimums, but unfortunately, that's negated by some driver errors in BF3 - the screen goes blank every time I die or change the map zoom. That's unacceptable. Any other nVidia users noticed that?

I'll be benching the other 3 games (Borderlands, DA2, and Metro) tomorrow, but from what I can see so far, I expect no great wins for the 670.
 
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Don Karnage

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Oct 11, 2011
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Ladies and gentleman of the jury, I present to you evidence that may cause great shock amongst you:

Battlefield 3

caspianandsingle.jpg


Unless something drastic changes, it looks like this "upgrade" was a complete wash. 5850 crossfire was just too strong. The only appreciable gains I've made are on wattage, down a solid 125w (which is what I had estimated). The only gaming benefit is in minimums, but unfortunately, that's negated by some driver errors in BF3 - the screen goes blank every time I die or change the map zoom. That's unacceptable. Any other nVidia users noticed that?

I'll be benching the other 3 games (Borderlands, DA2, and Metro) tomorrow, but from what I can see so far, I expect no great wins for the 670.

How long are you testing for in BF3?
 

Termie

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How long are you testing for in BF3?

60 seconds. I run one particular 60s scene in singleplayer (from the Swordbreaker mission), and a very precise loop in multiplayer (around Checkpoint on Caspian - all while avoiding being killed, which is tough).

Downloading latest nVidia drivers now, in case that helps with BF3 glitches.
 
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Don Karnage

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60 seconds. I run the exact scene in singleplayer (from the Swordbreaker mission) and the exact same loop in multiplayer (around Checkpoint on Caspian - all while avoiding being killed, which is tough).

Downloading latest nVidia drivers now, in case that helps with BF3 glitches.

Do me a favor when you retest. Just play Caspian multi on a 64 player map, test for 300 seconds and just play normal. I want to compare against my 1300 core 7850

Testing for just 60 seconds just doesn't give an accurate picture of gameplay.