GTX480 arrived [evga forums]

[Hauk]

Purchase decision made..

I owned a 5870 and loved it. I was going to grab a couple 2GB 5870s and was excited about that. I received some constructive criticism which helped me to step back and look at the big picture. I do like ATI's 5870; it's a great gpu.

I'm travelling for the next week and won't have time to be watching Newegg hour by hour. So, I went with a couple Zotac GTX 470's from Amazon. $349.00 each with free shipping which I upgraded to 2-day for $15 bucks.

The more I looked at 470, the more I liked the option. I have a Corsair HX1000 and an Antec 1200, plenty of power and airflow. Power consumption doesn't bother me, the heat factor does. But I like eye candy with AA & AF, and want to check out tesslation. Reviews show GTX 470 to be a strong performer with high IQ. Sure it'll generate some heat, but 470 SLI should rock pretty good. I'll use AS5 and tune the fans a bit to see what temps I get. If I can OC and maintain good temps, it'll be icing on the cake.

Done!

 

[thilanliyan]

Your right the U.S. average kwh is 10.93 cents per kwh. So it cost 12 dollars a year more. Thats if you game 1000 hours a year. Even I don't do that.

Scroll down to bottom of linked page.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epm/table5_6_a.html

Again, I don't think that includes the other fees that may show up on your actual bill (if those stats DO contain those then correct me if I'm wrong). If you have an old bill take a look at it. There were other fees that were added onto the basic rate when I took a look at one ("transport" fees, decomissioning fees for an old generation station, etc. were there in the one I took a look at).

Admittedly it probably wouldn't be an extra $100 per year at least in North America...in Europe and other places it would be more than here in NA.

 

[MrK6]

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epm/table5_6_a.html

Google ftw.

EDIT: I see happy medium found the same chart, bravo!

According to those figures (which are pretty damn recent), average price of a kWh is $0.11 across the U.S. Let's say you game two hours a day, of which the GTX480 is going to use 125W more per hour than a 5870. That means every eight hours, you're paying an extra $0.11 to power the card. Even over a month, that's two hours a day x 30 days in a month = 60 hours/ (8hours/1kWh) used = 7.5kWh extra x $0.11 = $0.825 per month extra x 12 months/year = $9.90 ~ $10 a year extra, which is pretty much what happy medium pointed out.

The fact of the matter is there's more to operating cost than simply paying for power, which isn't really a factor in countries like the U.S. where power is so damn cheap. There's also environmental costs. For example, if you heat up the room, then you also have to cool it down again, so you're actually paying double in the summer months. Some will argue "but it will help in the winter," except that electrical heating is one of the most inefficient forms of household heating, and at best you'd be breaking even. Then there's also the noise factor, which I think is more of an issue.

In the end, no matter what angle you look at the new GTX4x0's parts from, there really isn't a logical, reasonable argument for getting one beyond "it's new and shiny and I want one" (which is perfectly fine, we're enthusiasts here, that's what we do, just be up front about it). To summarize:

Performance/dollar - The GTX480 is 10-15% faster for 25% higher cost - not a good argument (throwing in overclocking makes it even worse for the GTX480)
Performance/watt - The GTX480 is again 10-15% faster for ~50% higher power usage - again not a good argument

If you want to argue feature sets, that makes sense based upon a users specific needs. But for the average gamer, they both offer DX11 and that's all that really matters, and the 5870 is going to do it for cheaper.

 

[happy medium]

Again, I don't think that includes the other fees that may show up on your actual bill (if those stats DO contain those then correct me if I'm wrong). If you have an old bill take a look at it. There were other fees that were added onto the basic rate when I took a look at one ("transport" fees, decomissioning fees for an old generation station, etc. were there in the one I took a look at).

You pay them fees for the 5870 cards too. Whats the difference?

 

[thilanliyan]

You pay them fees for the 5870 cards too. Whats the difference?

The fees are per kwh, so you would still be paying extra. Think of it as 10c/kwh basic rate plus say 5c/kwh fees so a total of 15c/kwh and you are using more electricity with the 480. As I said above, here in North America it wouldn't make much of a difference but in other places it could.

 

[tviceman]

sometimes it can be 10% slower,

Please link three reviews comparing the same game where the gtx480 is 10% slower at playable frame rates than 5870.

Like I said, 10-15% across most games. The results change a little bit at other resolutions, but this is a good middle ground.

I agree with the 10-15%. I never disagreed with that. And I do stand corrected, it doesn't get 30% as often as it is 8% or lower. It is in the 20-25% or better as often as it is 8% or lower, but not 30%.

HOWEVER, you did not back up your claim that I called you out on, and that was to link several reviews with the same game reproducing gtx480 being 10% (or more) slower than a 5870 on that game.

 

[tviceman]

Performance/dollar - The GTX480 is 10-15% faster for 25% higher cost - not a good argument (throwing in overclocking makes it even worse for the GTX480)

You jumping to conclusions there? You may of course be right, but there hasn't been much (nay) in the way of gtx480 overclocking analysis that I've seen. In fact, the only overclocking analysis I've seen so far is that the gtx480 scales better OC'd than an hd5870. But I haven't seen any unbiased reviews/comparisons of the gtx480 OC'd vs. an hd5870 OC'd so I don't know if that's entirely accurate. If there has been, once again, I ask you to link it.

 

[tviceman]

Purchase decision made..

I owned a 5870 and loved it. I was going to grab a couple 2GB 5870s and was excited about that. I received some constructive criticism which helped me to step back and look at the big picture. I do like ATI's 5870; it's a great gpu.

I'm travelling for the next week and won't have time to be watching Newegg hour by hour. So, I went with a couple Zotac GTX 470's from Amazon. $349.00 each with free shipping which I upgraded to 2-day for $15 bucks.

The more I looked at 470, the more I liked the option. I have a Corsair HX1000 and an Antec 1200, plenty of power and airflow. Power consumption doesn't bother me, the heat factor does. But I like eye candy with AA & AF, and want to check out tesslation. Reviews show GTX 470 to be a strong performer with high IQ. Sure it'll generate some heat, but 470 SLI should rock pretty good. I'll use AS5 and tune the fans a bit to see what temps I get. If I can OC and maintain good temps, it'll be icing on the cake.

Done!

It may not apply to me since you're doing SLI, but I am looking forward to gtx470 overclocking results/analysis.

 

[Hauk]

It may not apply to me since you're doing SLI, but I am looking forward to gtx470 overclocking results/analysis.

I'll do some benchies and temp tests with and without SLI. Will post!

 

[Madcatatlas]

May they bring you lots of joy! Looking forward to seeing your screenies!

 

[MrK6]

I agree with the 10-15%. I never disagreed with that. And I do stand corrected, it doesn't get 30% as often as it is 8% or lower. It is in the 20-25% or better as often as it is 8% or lower, but not 30%.

HOWEVER, you did not back up your claim that I called you out on, and that was to link several reviews with the same game reproducing gtx480 being 10% (or more) slower than a 5870 on that game.

Seriously? Here's an example using BC2, took 30 seconds using Google:
http://www.techspot.com/review/263-nvidia-geforce-gtx-480/page7.html
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2977/...x-470-6-months-late-was-it-worth-the-wait-/14
If you're that interested, I recommend trying some research yourself. I'll help get you started.

You jumping to conclusions there? You may of course be right, but there hasn't been much (nay) in the way of gtx480 overclocking analysis that I've seen. In fact, the only overclocking analysis I've seen so far is that the gtx480 scales better OC'd than an hd5870. But I haven't seen any unbiased reviews/comparisons of the gtx480 OC'd vs. an hd5870 OC'd so I don't know if that's entirely accurate. If there has been, once again, I ask you to link it.

Both scale the same, as they're both extremely GPU-bottlenecked. There's been plenty of official and individual user reviews that peg overclocking in the 775-825MHz range for the GTX480, temperatures permitting. An average of 15% is a decent overclock, but the 5870's typically hit higher (20%+ range). Now if the GTX 480's respond well to voltage and the heat is manageable, then that will change the situation certainly.

 

[tviceman]

Seriously? Here's an example using BC2, took 30 seconds using Google:
http://www.techspot.com/review/263-nvidia-geforce-gtx-480/page7.html
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2977/...x-470-6-months-late-was-it-worth-the-wait-/14
If you're that interested, I recommend trying some research yourself. I'll help get you started.

Yeah I love the belittling attitude but I've done the research myself. The BBC2 benchmark is not being reproduced like that across the majority of benchmarks. I can point to more instances where the gtx480 is faster than the hd5870.

gtx480 is faster

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,...-Fermi-performance-benchmarks/Reviews/?page=7
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=24000&page=9
http://news.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_gtx_480_470_performance/page14.asp
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...s/30297-nvidia-geforce-gtx-480-review-14.html
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.p...sk=view&id=480&Itemid=72&limit=1&limitstart=6
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.p...sk=view&id=480&Itemid=72&limit=1&limitstart=6
http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-470-480-review/16


Here's a few where the gtx480 is slower or faster, depending on settings:

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/new...rce-gtx-480--gtx-480-sli-review.aspx?pageid=4
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-480,2585-13.html

Here's two where it's slower

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/18682/12
http://www.techspot.com/review/263-nvidia-geforce-gtx-480/page7.html

See the general trend? The gtx480 is usually faster in that game. What I wanted was for you to show me where a game consistently scores 10% slower with a gtx480 vs. an hd5870 but it appears you can't.

 

[TemjinGold]

Just wanted to reply and say that the "$5-$10/mo" is not my own figure. Some other dude earlier in the thread said it would cost him that much more to run a 480 (mostly due to having to use an AC thingy to keep his room cool or something.) I'm not necessarily saying it would cost that much extra just for the card. I merely made that post because the guy who said it would be $5-$10/mo posted that the extra amount is not worth considering.

To be clear, I'm not trying to argue that it would be 55% more. His numbers would result in a low-ball estimate of 55% more and he's saying that it isn't a big deal for it to cost such. Hence my question to him that 55% premium is worth it.

Sorry if I caused confusion there as I know several of you rightly corrected the numbers to what they actually would be.

 

[Tempered81]

I can point to more instances where the gtx480 is faster than the hd5870.

gtx480 is faster

We expect it to be faster, right? You gotta put it into perspective. It's usually a faster card than the 5870. However, in about 5 months time the 5870 will be 1 year old while the guys in this thread got their GTX480's yesterday. It should be miles ahead in performance. Not win-some lose-some "lets point out reviews where it's faster and reviews where it's slower".

 

[RaistlinZ]

Anyone worried about an extra $5.00 to their monthly power bill shouldn't be spending $500.00+ on a video card to begin with.

 

[BababooeyHTJ]

Anyone worried about an extra $5.00 to their monthly power bill shouldn't be spending $500.00+ on a video card to begin with.

Yeah, I always have a good laugh when I see that too but the heat and noise arguments are completely valid. TBH though I wouldn't want a card that draws more than my 280 which is quite a bit as is.

 

[Genx87]

Anyone worried about an extra $5.00 to their monthly power bill shouldn't be spending $500.00+ on a video card to begin with.

Yeah, it is like somebody buying a Ferrari and worrying about the gas mileage.

 

[Udgnim]

Purchase decision made..

I owned a 5870 and loved it. I was going to grab a couple 2GB 5870s and was excited about that. I received some constructive criticism which helped me to step back and look at the big picture. I do like ATI's 5870; it's a great gpu.

I'm travelling for the next week and won't have time to be watching Newegg hour by hour. So, I went with a couple Zotac GTX 470's from Amazon. $349.00 each with free shipping which I upgraded to 2-day for $15 bucks.

The more I looked at 470, the more I liked the option. I have a Corsair HX1000 and an Antec 1200, plenty of power and airflow. Power consumption doesn't bother me, the heat factor does. But I like eye candy with AA & AF, and want to check out tesslation. Reviews show GTX 470 to be a strong performer with high IQ. Sure it'll generate some heat, but 470 SLI should rock pretty good. I'll use AS5 and tune the fans a bit to see what temps I get. If I can OC and maintain good temps, it'll be icing on the cake.

Done!

question

why did you choose not to go for 5870 crossfire? I'm assuming you already owned one before making the purchase for 2 GTX 470s.

 

[Hauk]

question

why did you choose not to go for 5870 crossfire? I'm assuming you already owned one before making the purchase for 2 GTX 470s.

I sold my 5870 in February.

 

[Skurge]

OCguy, hows the noise? you haven't said anything about the noise.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Did anyone calulate how many % NVIDIA is faster in minimum frames per second?
Delta does mean something...

 

[Ben90]

its just irrational to purchase something that costs $100 more for a performance increase thats as small as 8-10%

Says the person with a Raptor hard drive and a XSPC top.

OOOO Didn't see that coming!

 

[MarcVenice]

Did anyone calulate how many % NVIDIA is faster in minimum frames per second?
Delta does mean something...

My calculations took minima into account, and I also ended up with 15% ish.

Btw, for what it's worth MrK6, Bad Company 2 was also faster with a GTX 480 in my bench. Which is easily reproducable, since it's the first snow-level. Cold War I think it's called. It's after the cutscene, and starts when you have to use a 40mm-grenade on a armored truck. It's quite an intensive part with lots of explosions, soft particles going everywhere, which is were the cards really struggle.

 

[Lonbjerg]

My calculations took minima into account, and I also ended up with 15% ish.

Pure minimums...or mixed into the bag?

 

[tviceman]

We expect it to be faster, right? You gotta put it into perspective. It's usually a faster card than the 5870. However, in about 5 months time the 5870 will be 1 year old while the guys in this thread got their GTX480's yesterday. It should be miles ahead in performance. Not win-some lose-some "lets point out reviews where it's faster and reviews where it's slower".

Thanks for pointing that out, but that wasn't what I was arguing with mrk6.

MrK6 said specifically that there are games where the gtx480 is 10% slower than an hd5870. I asked him to provide proof in the form of the majority of reviews reproducing a gtx480 being slower than an hd5870 by 10% or more in a particular game.

That's all I was arguing.