GTX 660 vs AMD 7870

[RussianSensation]

Anyone pretending the difference between a 660Ti and a 7950 is going to matter down the road is delusional. Once the GTX680 is outdated so too will the 7950 OC.

Using your logic we should spend the same amount of $ on the 660Ti and take 20-25% less performance anyway? HD7950 TF3 is a good overclocker.

Not to mention 660Ti has almost no wins over the 7950 but when an overclocked 7950 will be faster, the difference will be massive. With a ton of AMD Gaming Evolved titles on the horizon, and some very GPU demanding games such as Metro Last Light, HD7950 is the clear choice over the 660Ti.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

HD7950 TF3 is a good overclocker.

Is it? You've tested them all?

Pretty sure all my 470s destroyed your 750Mhz 470s, right? Or are we now to assume since AMD has moderately decent overclocking by a few outspoken people, some of which paid 15% restocking fees because their first cards weren't very good all are?

The logic was pertaining to the game bundle, it's now been said countless times RS, at no point would the 660 Ti have been recommended by me had it not been for that bundle.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Is it? You've tested them all?

Pretty sure all my 470s destroyed your 750Mhz 470s, right? Or are we now to assume since AMD has moderately decent overclocking by a few outspoken people, some of which paid 15% restocking fees because their first cards weren't very good all are?

The logic was pertaining to the game bundle, it's now been said countless times RS, at no point would the 660 Ti have been recommended by me had it not been for that bundle.

I think the heat from your 470's destroyed your brain.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Could be, or it could be that I've been overclocking for awhile and would never say something so misleading as what RS is saying.

It's like saying all i5-2500k do 5GHz as was the saying at first, we all know that never held true though all three of mine did.

Then again GHz cards use more power than stock 470s, so perhaps it is the other way around.

 

[railven]

I see no reason for not recommending the GTX 660 Ti as Balla did since the bundle does factor-in per the OP.

While the math was a little off for the comparative due to good BL2 sales, it doesn't disqualify the GTX 660 Ti for being a good option for the OP and within reasonable money of his first two original options (GTX 660/HD 7870.)

I'd buy a GTX 660 Ti today if I wanted to buy BL2. What's so wrong with that?

 

[Dark Shroud]

Is it? You've tested them all?

MSI has, that's a TF3 model that uses nicely binned chips, let alone the other parts.

The TF3 also comes with a factory over clock that already gives it a bigger edge against the stock 660 Tis. Not to mention the TF3 is one of the best coolers in the industry.

 

[Silverforce11]

I tried the demo for sleeping dogs. To me, the game stinks and is very clunky. Maybe it's just me or it isn't my type of game. I am more of an FPS player though so that may contribute to my negative experience.
And Silverforce, it would appear Balla "isn't" wrong about the low sales of the game. 200K is very low. Steam top sales at release. What about now especially after people bought the game and gave their online opinions in forums worldwide? That probably was the most contributing factor to the sales slowdown and overall low sales number.

Sleeping dogs is a big meh, and I think if it was a hit, the word would properly spread and sales would be higher.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleeping_Dogs_(video_game)#Reception
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-09-10-uk-chart-sleeping-dogs-back-at-number-one

Great reviews, topping charts in sales (most of which is digital, no retail boxes in many countries). Not much more to ask for since its not an online game.

It's just GTA with an asian flavor, but the voice acting is truly awesome for a game.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

MSI has, that's a TF3 model that uses nicely binned chips, let alone the other parts.

The TF3 also comes with a factory over clock that already gives it a bigger edge against the stock 660 Tis. Not to mention the TF3 is one of the best coolers in the industry.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814127667

That card is $340 shipped with a $15 MIR.

I'm really confused though, is the OP in the US, Canada, or Europe?

You have proof of that? MSI tests chips directly to see maximum OC potential prior to putting them on higher end boards? Exactly what clock speed does MSI guarantee on every box?

Just link the youtube video, I await with anticipation to see this in action.

Yeah 800 vs 880, even though the boost card still directly competes with the stock 660Ti more often than not at 1080p, and that's at 925MHz.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleeping_Dogs_(video_game)#Reception
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-09-10-uk-chart-sleeping-dogs-back-at-number-one

Great reviews, topping charts in sales (most of which is digital, no retail boxes in many countries). Not much more to ask for since its not an online game.

It's just GTA with an asian flavor, but the voice acting is truly awesome for a game.

PC, PS3, Xbox 360 when I spoke of sales I directly limited it to PC, compared to say GW2, it has less than 10% of the sales.

 

[Silverforce11]

Don't think i've met any owner of 7950s that couldn't get at LEAST 1050mhz maxing out CCC.

Likewise the big thread in here on 7850/7950 with OCs typically reaching 1.1 to 1.25ghz.

Obviously buying a product expecting top end OC results is not wise, but expecting moderate 20-30% OCs is realistic given the plethora of user results.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Don't think i've met any owner of 7950s that couldn't get at LEAST 1050mhz maxing out CCC.

Likewise the big thread in here on 7850/7950 with OCs typically reaching 1.1 to 1.25ghz.

Obviously buying a product expecting top end OC results is not wise, but expecting moderate 20-30% OCs is realistic given the plethora of user results.

That's what a 12% OC over the boost card (a 30% overclock over stock), which still trades blows with the stock 660 Ti? I'm still waiting for this amazing card that blows the 660 Ti right out of the water making it a total non option for anyone ever.

 

[Silverforce11]

What are you talking about, heaps of reviews already put "stock 800mhz" 7950 has being either same (no AA) or faster (with AA) as "stock boosting" 660ti. If you refer to the 7950B, its boost is only 1/2 functional so in effect its really a 875mhz 7950.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

What are you talking about, heaps of reviews already put "stock 800mhz" 7950 has being either same (no AA) or faster (with AA) as "stock boosting" 660ti. If you refer to the 7950B, its boost is only 1/2 functional so in effect its really a 875mhz 7950.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6159/the-geforce-gtx-660-ti-review/8

 

[Silverforce11]

Lets not cherry pick a few samples and look at the aggregate of multiple big review sites, which use a lot of games.

http://www.3dcenter.org/artikel/eine-performance-einordnung-der-radeon-hd-7950-boost-edition

But really i expected as much from you. Carry on trolling a dead horse, srsly what next, you gonna say the 660ti is faster?

 

[BallaTheFeared]

I'm going to stick with a name I can trust.

It's not like your link changed anything, the 660Ti is faster than the 7950 at 1080p 4xAA and within a few percent of the overclocked 7950 on avg I'm sure it still trading blows from game to game as I said it was.

Wait wait, AMD dropped the price of the 7950 from $450 to sub $300 with sales because AMD is a good samaritan, or because Nvidia placed a comparable card at a lower price range, I can't seem to figure that one out just yet.

 

[Silverforce11]

Really? Did you insinuate not trusting the likes of hardware.fr, computerbase.de, techpowerup, guru3d, cannucks?? etc etc...

 

[Dark Shroud]

You have proof of that? MSI tests chips directly to see maximum OC potential prior to putting them on higher end boards? Exactly what clock speed does MSI guarantee on every box?

The different models of the TwinFrozer cards come pre-over clocked. They're higher build quality. than OEM. And they all over clock to 1050mhz+. MSI Afterburner is one of the more popular overclocking software tools.

If you want more details you can look up each card model.

Just link the youtube video, I await with anticipation to see this in action.

Why would MSI put up videos of their testing process on youtube?

Yeah 800 vs 880, even though the boost card still directly competes with the stock 660Ti more often than not at 1080p, and that's at 925MHz.

What boost card are you talking about? I hope you don't mean the one Anandtech used. That was a card model that doesn't exist. I'm talking about the cheaper factory over clocked cards with no "boost" feature.

And no the 660 TI doesn't compete especially when the MSAA goes to 4x. Try looking at some newer reviews where updated AMD drivers are used.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

The different models of the TwinFrozer cards come pre-over clocked. They're higher build quality. than OEM. And they all over clock to 1050mhz+. MSI Afterburner is one of the more popular overclocking software tools.

I'm sure it is, component quality though does very little to change what the silicon is capable of. I think you've been reading too many PR marketing boxes.

If you want more details you can look up each card model.

I'd rather not, thanks for the suggestion though.

Why would MSI put up videos of their testing process on youtube?

Then post the literature of their methodology and what ever else you have from them on the topic of this discussion.

What boost card are you talking about? I hope you don't mean the one Anandtech used. That was a card model that doesn't exist. I'm talking about the cheaper factory over clocked cards with no "boost" feature.

Their results matched up with the other ones the other guy linked, please don't discredit Anand, their forums are suspect but their reviews are always top notch. They used the shady bios update AMD sent out in a desperate attempt to save face in the presence of another Nvidia release, it's not Anand's fault.

And no the 660 TI doesn't compete especially when the MSAA goes to 4x. Try looking at some newer reviews where updated AMD drivers are used.

He just showed it did

 

[Silverforce11]

Yup the 660ti in those reviews, custom cooled with higher boost does match a stock 800mhz 7950 at 1080 and 4xMSAA. It loses at 8xMSAA though.

But then again, the 7950 is a great card not because of its stock performance.
Something like this is what users are getting here (~1.1 to 1.25ghz):
http://hardocp.com/article/2012/08/23/galaxy_gtx_660_ti_gc_oc_vs_670_hd_7950/3

In that review, its a 1.19ghz 7950 versus a 1.3ghz 660ti and 670 with huge vram OCs (7.6ghz, more than offsets its weaker bandwidth), wins in titles that typically perform better on NV. Says a lot. If you don't get it, you won't ever get it, so lets leave it at that.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Yup the 660ti in those reviews, custom cooled with higher boost does match a stock 800mhz 7950 at 1080 and 4xMSAA. It loses at 8xMSAA though.

But then again, the 7950 is a great card not because of its stock performance.
Something like this is what users are getting here (~1.1 to 1.25ghz):
http://hardocp.com/article/2012/08/23/galaxy_gtx_660_ti_gc_oc_vs_670_hd_7950/3

Versus a 1.3ghz 660ti and 670 with huge vram OCs, wins in titles that typically perform better on NV. Says a lot. If you don't get it, you won't ever get it, so lets leave it at that.

8xMSAA is worthless, so who cares? And loses is a strong word for how little it "loses" by, as I said the difference between a 7950 OC and a 660 Ti OC when the 660 Ti isn't cutting it won't make a bit of difference.


If you're going to thump your chest over the performance increase of the recent drivers for the 7950, you should probably mention how that performance increase came to games that were released prior to the 7950 coming out, such as BF3. In which case you should probably let people know when recommending it based on the latest driver performance with it's inconsequential performance advantage that it will probably take 8 months or more for new games to get the same benefit.

 

[Silverforce11]

8xMSAA is worthless, so who cares? And loses is a strong word for how little it "loses" by, as I said the difference between a 7950 OC and a 660 Ti OC when the 660 Ti isn't cutting it won't make a bit of difference.

It matters. Here, a balls to the walls maximum 660ti OC vs a slightly above average 7950 OC, the difference is substantial, enough to put it beyond another product tier.

As per driver timing etc, what matters is recommending a buy to new purchasers.

I already recommended the 660ti since the OP wants Physx... so im actually not THAT biased.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

It matters. Here, a balls to the walls maximum 660ti OC vs a slightly above average 7950 OC, the difference is substantial, enough to put it beyond another product tier.

As per driver timing etc, what matters is recommending a buy to new purchasers.

I already recommended the 660ti since the OP wants Physx... so im actually not THAT biased.

The difference is nominal, granted the 660 Ti seems to have an issue with the start of BMAC, however your 8XAA example just proved the point, even when you cherry pick and try to give the worst case example the difference in min is minor 33 fps isn't giving it any breathing room, 56 vs 66 doesn't even matter.

 

[The Alias]

The difference is nominal, granted the 660 Ti seems to have an issue with the start of BMAC, however your 8XAA example just proved the point, even when you cherry pick and try to give the worst case example the difference in min is minor 33 fps isn't giving it any breathing room, 56 vs 66 doesn't even matter.

56 vs 66 is the difference between faster than the eye can see and slower than the eye can see and worrying about framedrops

 

[BallaTheFeared]

56 vs 66 is the difference between faster than the eye can see and slower than the eye can see and worrying about framedrops

That's 100% wrong.

 

[SirPauly]

It matters. Here, a balls to the walls maximum 660ti OC vs a slightly above average 7950 OC, the difference is substantial, enough to put it beyond another product tier.

As per driver timing etc, what matters is recommending a buy to new purchasers.

I already recommended the 660ti since the OP wants Physx... so im actually not THAT biased.

That bench may of been off if you investigate a bit:

http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTM0NzIzMDU1OEh6eWtLVUFZQjBfN181X2wuanBn

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/09/17/asus_geforce_gtx_660_ti_directcu_ii_top_review/7

67 here with a GTX 660ti OC!

 

[RussianSensation]

Could be, or it could be that I've been overclocking for awhile and would never say something so misleading as what RS is saying.

It's not misleading. MSI TF3 has binned 7950 chips in the 7970 PCB, 6+8 pin version. This would have been common knowledge if you visited the MSI TF3 owner's thread. It's not at all like recommending a random GTX470 card. The ASIC on 7950 MSI TF3 6+8 pin version is > 80%. Don't believe me, go buy one and test it for yourself.

Is it? You've tested them all?

Pretty sure all my 470s destroyed your 750Mhz 470s, right? Or are we now to assume since AMD has moderately decent overclocking by a few outspoken people, some of which paid 15% restocking fees because their first cards weren't very good all are?

The average HD7950/7970 card is a far better overclocker than the average 470/480 cards ever were. MSI TF3 HD7950 "top percentile" hits 1200 mhz on 1.168-1.175V on air and the golden samples hit 1300mhz on water. But at those speeds you are creaming a 680/7970 GE.

What I am talking about is the basic attainable 1050mhz on stock voltage (which is 1.175V for Tahiti XT), at which point HD7950 = GTX680 already and I would bet 99% of MSI TF3 6+8 pin card will hit that 1050mhz clocks on a good PSU and in a well ventilated case with stable electricity using at least 1.175V actual voltage.

MSI has, that's a TF3 model that uses nicely binned chips, let alone the other parts.

Ball doesn't know this information since he hates all HD7900 series cards and stays clear from accepting that they are good overclockers, instead suggesting the overclocks we discuss are "golden samples".