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GTX 460 (factory OCed @ 815/1630) vs HD 6870 (stock speed)

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RussianSensation said:
Ok boys and men, let's settle this debate another way.

The linked GTX460 is $225.
The linked HD6870 is $245.

You can get a Sapphire HD6850 for $185. The HD6870 is suddenly a whooping 32% more expensive. At 900mhz overclock on the HD6850 vs. 1000mhz overclock on the HD6870, the performance difference ~ 15%. The stock cooler on HD6870 is also louder than an aftermarket cooler of the HD6850. So HD6850 easily wins this price/performance battle.

Next, GTX460. If we assume that most GTX460s will overclock from 810mhz (linked card) to 850mhz with ease, that OC on the 460 puts us at HD6870 performance level on average (+/-5% w/e). Of course 900mhz HD6850 is also near HD6870's performance level. This basically means that HD6850 @ 900mhz will be within 5% of the GTX460 @ 850mhz. Therefore, why would be pay an extra 22% more ($225 vs. $185) for similar performance? The only answer is to get a potentially higher overclock on the GTX460 from 850mhz. That doesn't make any sense once you consider that you can't get much more than another 5%-9% from here vs. 22% price increase. HD6850 also has lower power consumption. Therefore, HD6850 wins again.

HD6850 @ $185 is the winner!!! ding ding ding. :thumbsup:
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Most GTX 460 1GB are sub $200, however, and can easily reach 850. Nvidia's prices on them were even better last week however.
 
"Most GTX 460 1GB are sub $200, however, and can easily reach 850"

Not all 460's reach 850mhz... most seem to reach about 800-820.
Evga test chips and pick the ones that OC the best for their cards.
 
Arkadrel said:
"Most GTX 460 1GB are sub $200, however, and can easily reach 850"

Not all 460's reach 850mhz... most seem to reach about 800-820.
Evga test chips and pick the ones that OC the best for their cards.
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Incorrect. GTX460's easily reach 850 on stock voltage, up to around 930-950 with voltage tweaks.

And you're trying to convince people that eVGA tests all their chips before they buy? Explain how every other vendor, MSI, Gigabyte, Palit, PNY, etc. all have the same results or BETTER than eVGA?

What are you doing dude?
 
Why does the GTX400s compared to the HD 6800s feels like last gen cards...even tho some are faster...

The HD 6850 is very appealing and i'm just waiting for the custom ones to come out (XFX BE, Sapphire Vapor-X, etc) and compare the prices.

...and btw, even tho I OC'ed my CPU I just don't feel like OCing my GPU...really don't know why...but if I get a 6850, i'm sure gonna try it.

Lots of nice posts here, good debates going on for both Red and Green and I thank you all for that!
 
overclocknig is never a sure thing, and not everyone reaches stable 850mhz core at stock voltage.

I cba to go look it up, but someone posted a old review of 460's where 6 newly launched 460s where compaired in their overclocking (from a review site).

That review site only managed to get 2 out of the 6 cards they tested to run 850mhz or above stable at stock voltage.

My point is not everyone will get 850mhz stable at stock voltage, and yes EVGA test chips before they put them in the overclocked cards you buy.
 
Rhezuss said:
Why does the GTX400s compared to the HD 6800s feels like last gen cards...even tho some are faster...

The HD 6850 is very appealing and i'm just waiting for the custom ones to come out (XFX BE, Sapphire Vapor-X, etc) and compare the prices.

...and btw, even tho I OC'ed my CPU I just don't feel like OCing my GPU...really don't know why...but if I get a 6850, i'm sure gonna try it.

Lots of nice posts here, good debates going on for both Red and Green and I thank you all for that!
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Probably because it's "the in thing" so to speak. When the GTX460 came out it offered great performance for the money (and still does). 5850+ performance was possible with an overclock, and for near $100 less. Now the 68xx cards are out, and they leap frogged the GTX460 in performance for very similar price points as what the GTX460's debuted at. So, now you have a faster part at about the same price points.

Most GTX460's overclock quite well, but I have to wonder why Nvidia didn't give them a higher clock if they all were able to easily hit 750MHz as an exmaple. I'm sure people would still be quite happy with a 150MHz bump over that speed. My point is overclocking isn't guaranteed. Though it's very likely you'll get these higher speeds, it's not a sure thing. I say this from experience... years back, my socket A Athlon 2500+ mobile was supposed to hit 2.2-2.6GHz with ease. I never got anything over the stock clock with it stable.
 
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Rhezuss said:
Why does the GTX400s compared to the HD 6800s feels like last gen cards...even tho some are faster...
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They simply aren't special anymore, great buys but not the absolute best bang for buck they were 3 months ago.

Kinda like the 5850 was special until GTX470 started drop in price and GTX460 were out.
 
I think it's fair to say that you probably can't go wrong with either a 6850 or GTX460 purchase. Both are similarly priced, and both have a great OC potential. I give a *slight* nod to the GTX460 here because it has a longer OC track record, and the 6850 is new.

They offer great performance/$ and good power efficiency, with a slight nod to the 6850 here.

Bottom line - you can't go wrong with either of these cards. The purchasing decision will probably come down to (1) whats the best deal (MIR, etc) and (2) feature set.

We are really arguing over a very small performance difference, and cost and features will really be driving the purchase here. Both are great cards.
 
SlowSpyder said:
Probably because it's "the in thing" so to speak. When the GTX460 came out it offered great performance for the money (and still does). 5850+ performance was possible with an overclock, and for near $100 less. Now the 68xx cards are out, and they leap frogged the GTX460 in performance for very similar price points as what the GTX460's debuted at. So, now you have a faster part at about the same price points.

Most GTX460's overclock quite well, but I have to wonder why Nvidia didn't give them a higher clock if they all were able to easily hit 750MHz as an exmaple. I'm sure people would still be quite happy with a 150MHz bump over that speed. My point is overclocking isn't guaranteed. Though it's very likely you'll get these higher speeds, it's not a sure thing. I say this from experience... years back, my socket A Athlon 2500+ mobile was supposed to hit 2.2-2.6GHz with ease. I never got anything over the stock clock with it stable.
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Why? What gpu sets above the 460. NV had to fit it into a spot. Its as I said yesterday . Using the 460 O/Ced in the review showed good performance gains. Yep it did it also showed the 470 as not a good gpu to buy. All things considered. Still having the O/Ced cards in a referance review is going to show up bigtime on the next NV referance card review. If the 6950 O/Ced isn't shown against the 570. Its going to get nasty in the GPU forum . I wouldn't want to be IDC. Who is doing a great job in this topic area.
 
I finally made the move and ordered the XFX HD 6850 for 199CAD with free express shipping! Not a bad deal even tho I know there's other brands 15CAD less, I wanted to try XFX and got the chance.

This model is 215CAD on oder etailers + 11CAD shipping so not a bad deal!

Can't wait and if i'm lucky I should get it for the weekend!
 
Rhezuss said:
Why does the GTX400s compared to the HD 6800s feels like last gen cards...even tho some are faster...
Click to expand...

lol, that's only in your mind then! HD6800 does not feel like a new generation for those who followed GPU graphics for last 10 years -- maybe because it's 95% identical to the Cypress chip released 13 months ago, only with less shaders and textures and a slightly tweaked tessellation engine. :awe: Seems to me both are just as "old". The attraction of HD6870 series is slightly slower performance, but at a much lower price. But to call it a new generation is just absurd. Maybe HD69xx series will be a real next generation chip.

Congrats on the 6850. It's a good card. Enjoy.
 
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I was just going through all of this myself a few days ago, am in the middle of my 1st all new PC build in way too many years.

Either card is a winner and in most game your talking a few fps.

If this was 1 month after the 6870/6850 release, I probably would have jumped on one, we'd have much better cooled designs, the refrence ones just a too warm for my taste. (been there done that with the old NV 6600GT) So at $219 the eVga OC w/lifetime warranty was a no brainer for me...but you cant go wrong with either. Enjoy them, the middle ground has not looked so good in a very long time.

Matching mine with a Asus P55 USB3 MB, i5-760, 8GB DDR3, 2 1TB HDs in Raid...should be quite fun!
 
Ok, yesterday 2pm I placed my order for the XFX HD 6850...and this morning at 9:25am my package is "out for delivery"!!!!

Mega thanks to NCIX and Puro for the extremely quick service!

Can't wait to try it out tonight!
 
Rhezuss said:
Ok, yesterday 2pm I placed my order for the XFX HD 6850...and this morning at 9:25am my package is "out for delivery"!!!!

Mega thanks to NCIX and Puro for the extremely quick service!

Can't wait to try it out tonight!
Click to expand...

Beast. Let us know how it goes. I've been salivating over the XFX 6850...and since it's only $3 to ship vs. $8 or so for the other 6850s, it really isn't that much more. Must...hold...out...for...xmas...bonus...
 
Ok, installed the beauty at lunch time (yeah, I work at 8-10 minutes from home) with the Catalyst 10.10 + hotfix 10.10c.

First thing I noticed is that the XFX HD 6850 the default fan speed is set to 74%...it's a little loud. I dropped it to 55% and I can't hear a thing and my idle temps are in the low 40s. So it's not that big of a con for me.

Second thing...about the Morphological AA...not sure if I like the effect on-screen. It makes the image a little bit more smoooth but a bit more "blurry" too...dunno how to explain and forgot to take a screenshot.

Anyway, all in all I love the card. Good performance boost from my HD 5770 (which I sold for 50% the cost I paid for the HD 6850!).

Before leaving to work I started the downloads of Metro 2033, RE5 and Red Faction: Guerilla (all bought on Steam deals of the week)...can't wait to try the new card on these!
 
3DVagabond said:
See, I differ. I too think it was a really crappy idea to include O/C cards (especially a massively O/C card that had just had a price reduction that same day and was sent in by the competing company... Never mind, I digress) in a reference card review that I would rather it never happens again. I don't even want a make up review. I think it was bad and 2 wrongs aren't ever going to make a right (Of course, 3 lefts will 🙂). I'd rather nip it in the bud than watch it snowball out of control.
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Hmm, I disagree, I think AT readers deserve as much info as possible if it's highly relevant to the topic/release at hand.

OC cards should be included imho if the following criteria are met :

(1)- The OC card is available and stocked at major vendors.
(2)- The OC card has warranty.
(3)- Information is given about the heat/power stats of the OC card vs. regular version.
(4)- Pricing info is given on the OC card, including MSRP and street price if possible.
(5)- OC card is priced at a level that makes it a viable option in the range of the GPUs in question.
(6)- A full and plainly stated disclosure that the OC cards are not equivalent or a necessary reflection of stock card performance, even if the stock card is overclocked (results not guaranteed).

Seperating the OC cards from regular reviews just dilutes the information and makes comparison more difficult, unless AT makes a bi-yearly baseline system and adds test results to a searchable/selectable database where you can select cards A, B, and C from different reviews and view test results run with identical settings/apps. Driver revisions make this somewhat problematic though, as a bench from 4 months back may be massively out of date when comparing to a new release matchup. This goes both ways as well, with new released GPUs often at a slight disadvantage when compared to OC parts with more driver optimizations. All of this leads back to the most logical course of action being to include OC cards so long as criteria is met.

We shouldn't dumb down AT reviews, we should applaud the inclusion of more data. AT is an honest and informative site, and I have the highest respect for their ethics and practices. This is not five years ago, OC cards are a constant presence now, and it looks likely that they will be for the forseeable future, and in all probability in greater numbers. If a vendor or GPU maker is up to something sneaky (paper launch or paper cards that aren't actually available, overambitious overclocks that don't pass stress tests, inadequate cooling, poor warranty follow-through, etc), I fully expect that AT would be the first on the block to call them out on it.

More info is always better if it's extremely relevant to the topic of a review or article.
 
I'm trying to decide between these cards myself... I'm always a bang for the buck buyer, so for me it is between the GF460-768 at under 150.00 or the 6850 for 180.00. I'm trying to hold off until black friday since I think Fry's will likely have something at a very good price.
 
Lifetime warrenty.. wow didnt know XFX did that. Still wasnt the 6870 abit cheaper than it is now? did prices rise lmao? Or does the lifetime warrenty cost abit more? Its probably the warrenty... There are still 6870s at 239$.
 
I played a bit in the CCC settings and found settings I like. The IQ is greatly improved compared to my HD 5770, i'm really pleased and impressed.

Only the Morphological AA is not really something I like, blurry image is not for me I guess but overall really pleased with the HD 6850!
 
cusideabelincoln said:
If these are absurd then the Radeon HD 3000 series and Geforce 9000 series were beyond absurd. Also half of the 200 series and the sparse 300 series are beyond beyond absurd.
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I am not disagreeing with any of those statements. GT210/220/240/GTS250 are not a new generation and should never have been called that. GeForce 3 series on mobile is something else lol. Again, another BS rebadge by NV. 😀 GeForce 9000 was a joke as well. Oh guys, let's take 8800 and change it to 9800 and make a new generation out of nothing!!! All they did was basically take 8800GT/S/Xs and rebadged them with minor clock speed changes in some cases.

And HD2/3000 series? Well there was a laughing stock of a series that ATI is happy to forget even existed; but thankfully their failures inspired ATI to produce one of the best videocards of all time - the HD4870 (and HD4850 was no slouch either).

Next it will be NV adding 20% to a GTX480 and calling it a GTX580. :thumbsdown: Reminds me of car companies advertising "All New 2011 Car A", but it's just a refresh of a 2008 model....People just want to always own the "latest" product. So this is where marketing always has the upper hand over common sense.
 
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