Well, considering Nvidia's last quarter results... We'll just say I doubt Nvidia can continue selling their parts for the margins they are getting. I'm sure their move to 55nm and soon 40nm will help them a lot.
Well, considering Nvidia's last quarter results... We'll just say I doubt Nvidia can continue selling their parts for the margins they are getting. I'm sure their move to 55nm and soon 40nm will help them a lot.
Right. I can't even get my head around that line of thinking. No matter what you name a 9800GTX, no matter how long or short it's PCB is, it does not compete with the 4870. I can very easily find a few benches where the Radeon 4850 out paces the GTX260 216. This does not mean they are competition for each other. I don't think anyone can say that there was ever any price gouging with the 4850 or 4870's. To me this price drop from AMD looks more like an attempt to steal some headlines from Nvidia, not to mention there have been quite a few rumors of a higher end (RV790) coming that would probably naturally drop the current card prices anyway.
I did know that. AMD's graphics division lost money for a long time by not having a decent product compared to Nvidia (3870 vs. 8800GT was a no brainer for most). AMD appears to at least be headed in the right direction in that they're selling parts at least now and have some hardware people want to buy again. Nvidia on the other hand was making money hand over fist for quite a while, than that came to a screeching halt last quarter. What was their 4th quarter results, something like 50% of the revenue of the previous quarter? Obviously very few companies are doing well these days, but Nvidia's turn around was pretty drastic.
well problem with el savior was that it cost too much to make a dent, most of the market share comes from <50$ cards with >1gb ram 
I'm not fogetting anything. What you just said has nothing to do with what I said. What I said is AMD for a long time had poor products. Now they have good products that people want. Nvidia had the only products worth buying for many enthusiast for quite a while. That's just not the case any more. Just because AMD suddenly has good products doesn't mean that overnight they are going to take the majority of the market share. I think AMD has the right product the the current environment, making a smaller GPU that has higher performance per sq. mm of silicon and priced it so that they can make money in the performance sector. Nvidia went with the balls to the wall chip that was priced at $450-$650 to make the money they felt they needed to get for their product. That is why I said I think AMD is finally headed in the right direction, while Nvidia's numbers were much more AMD-like than AMD's numbers.
Benchmarks would indicate otherwise. In some cases, the 1 GB GTS250 outperforms the 512mb 9800 GTX by ~50%.
nitromullet
Diamond Member
- Jan 7, 2004
- 9,031
- 36
- 91
Well, there are the increased clock speeds and the official addition of 1GB RAM, but the smaller PCB/single PCIe power connector are not new.
Sure, the price cuts were more drastic for the GTX 260/280 last summer, but we're also talking about a different target market. However, the principles remain the same. Basically, now you can get a cheaper ATI card because of NVIDIA, just like how then you could get a cheaper NVIDIA card because of ATI.
No one is debating on which company is more saintly (clearly, they are both angels
), just that price competition works both ways.Same here. Companies never want to honor them. Sometimes they make it blatantly obvious that it's a scam they're pulling. Example: my parents once bought a computer that had a $100 mail in rebate. The company sent $20. After my mom wrote them a letter asking where the rest of the money was, they sent 4 more $20 cheques. Oh, because you can't send $100 or $80 amounts? You guessed it; they'll send out $20 and hope you don't follow up on it. I really wish the people responsible for those kinds of things would get jail time.
I'm glad to see this card has lots of memory. The one thing that kinda pisses me off with the 4850 and 4870 are the complete lack of memory. 512 is what cards had maybe 3 years ago. My 8800 is 2 years old and it has something like 768 or some random number like that. It's probably not a big deal for 90% of cards, but we're talking about high end cards that run high resolution textures. You know, those textures that take over 512mb of video ram.
And gets easily beaten by the now equivalently priced HD 4870 512MB....
It doesn't matter whether the GTS 250 is an improvement or not, it's just not competitive with the parts AMD has at the same price range. The GTS 250 512MB vs. the HD 4850 is a bit more of an interesting battle, but the HD 4850 wins most of the games from what I see and it is widely available at the ~$129 price point.
nVidia needs a 40nm chip with higher specs if they want to compete in the sub $200 market - G92b parts cannot compete with RV770 parts, and nVidia is in for real trouble when the <$100 RV740 parts arrive. They have the $200+ market already IMO, the GTX 260-216 and GTX 285 are the best choices over the 4870 1GB and the GTX 295 is better than the HD 4870 X2. That might change with the HD 4890 but that is an argument for another day.
So if these are the "fast" boards ............ Oh well low mid range has always been a disappointment. Hope ati releases something nice soon.
Nope, I explained myself perfectly fine in my prior posts.
If you'd like to see an example off "leaving these facts out of your statments as they render them both null and void" just see your OP where you only include the quotes that blow sunshine up Nvidia's ass, but fail to show the whole quote.
Just felt you left out some parts that were relevant because you didn't care for what they said.
I really don't want to bicker with you on this though... I think we've both said our parts. :beer:
Paratus
Lifer
- Jun 4, 2004
- 17,522
- 15,565
- 146
After reading th AT review of the 250 GT I am so impressed with the powerful performance of this brand new card, especially for the awesome price. Plus another hard launch. Wow just wow. Nv is definately firing on some cylinders.
AMD would never manage to pull a launch like this!
AMD would never manage to pull a launch like this!
From what I've seen they're still very much the same performance depending on which resolution you look at. I'm at 1680x1050, and whenever the 4850 does beat the GTS 250, it isn't by much. It's certainly not enough to make a playability difference.
Also, a lot of the 4850s I wouldn't touch with a 10 ft pole, as their custom cooling often does away with an adjustable fan. Examples (check fan connections): 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Yeah, ATi seem to have good control on the budget market, which, at these times is a good market to have.
But when the performance is so neck and neck with the upper budget cards (i.e., the 4850 and 9800 GTX+/GTS 250), some buyers tend to start looking at other aspects to the card. Image quality, coolers/thermals, power, even vendors depending on what prices are like
At least, these are considerations I made when deciding on a card not three days ago.
Another one is card size. This GTX 260 is enormous and probably wouldn't even fit in most computer cases. I had to buy a new case when I bought my stupid 8800GTX because it was so long from end to end that it took up space where hard drives normally go, and this 260 appears to be about the same size. This 4850 appears to be about the same size as my old 7950GT which can fit in most computer cases.
How big do you think this 9800 GTX+ is? Would you need a new case?
toyota
Lifer
- Apr 15, 2001
- 12,957
- 1
- 0
it does look big but the first review for that card says "Pros: The size of the card is physically smaller than the other 9800GTX+ based on the reference design, so it will fit in smaller cases (mATX Rosewill case for me)."
and the third review says "Pros: A smaller card than any other 9800 GTX+ build."
I see your point, the 4850s are generally shorter and that is a benefit.
Obviously if the case is the limiting factor, one automatically doesn't have to worry about price comparisons between ATi and nVidia though.
And no, I shouldn't have to get a new case. Will probably have to move the hard drive, but that should do it.
Originally posted by: nitromullet
No one is debating on which company is more saintly (clearly, they are both angels
I agree with that...but these price cuts seem more to do with keeping market share rather than having to reduce prices from very high levels relative to the competition.
I'm grateful that prices are going down even more though (thanks nVidia
). Hopefully the 1GB 4870 version goes down as well...I wouldn't mind trying Xfire but I'll have to get another waterblock.TRENDING THREADS
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