GT500 vs ZL1 - surprised no one posted this

[LTC8K6]

Far less than 1%, but you can't keep changing your argument. First it was they need better drivers on the test in the OP, now you're saying most drivers aren't nearly as good as pros so it shouldn't matter. Which is it?

I don't know what you are talking about.

My point is that it was just one sample and shouldn't be considered as definitive. The point has been the same all along.

 

[MixMasterTang]

I don't know what you are talking about.

My point is that it was just one sample and shouldn't be considered as definitive. The point has been the same all along.

Sounds like they needed a better driver in the Mustang.

This right here might be why they need a better driver.

We only know that these 2 drivers preferred the way the ZL1 handled.

Other drivers may prefer the way the Mustang handled.

I think that if you like the way a car handles and are familiar and comfortable with it, you can get more out of it.

We know that different drivers will get different lap times with the same car.

That's nearly a second quicker to 60 than the other drivers...

So, every ZL1 driver will get a time like that then?

Driver matters, driver matters, driver matters, driver matters, driver doesn't matter.

 

[KentState]

I'm surprised about the 1/4 mile times on the ZL1. Even the most green of racers are getting mid 12s out of the CTS-V. The ZL1 has wider tires, less weight and 30 more HP.

 

[OCGuy]

Mustang fanboys' heads are exploding because the Camaro handles better!

Head is exploding from the awesome drive. of a GT500.

Still not sure why people argue so much about things they will probably never own.

 

[KentState]

Head is exploding from the awesome drive. of a GT500.

Still not sure why people argue so much about things they will probably never own.

Hell, even if you own one, I don't get the arguments. Over the last 3 years, I've only met up with 2 cars in an ideal situation to play with (GT500 and Camaro SS).

 

[Throckmorton]

Head is exploding from the awesome drive. of a GT500.

Still not sure why people argue so much about things they will probably never own.

Maybe not a ZL1 or GT500 but a lot of us could buy regular old Camaros and Mustangs

 

[nismotigerwvu]

A cart? Go **** yourself. At least I've driven a few cars. Meanwhile keep paper racing while living vicariously through a few YouTube vids and mag articles.

If you would to learn to read, maybe you'll figure out the Shelby isn't just missing an IRS. That's all I pointed out.
It's not an IRS vs live axle argument.
Throckmoron turned it into that long before I posted.
Credibility on AtG? Like I give a damn on what you think.
Maybe you invest too much on this forum. So much that you actually are starting to merit your self worth here instead of real life.
I actually couldn't care less what you and throck think.

So he should stop listening to professionals and take your word as gold then? This really isn't the best way to go about making your point...

 

[Danimal1209]

I think this test is irrelevant. It's just a way for the winners camp to gloat.

I would still buy a mustang even if it had 100 less hp, and I think most people feel the same way for mustangs, or for camaros. I don't think this article changes anyones mind on which one they would buy if they were going to buy one.

 

[Throckmorton]

I think this test is irrelevant. It's just a way for the winners camp to gloat.

I would still buy a mustang even if it had 100 less hp, and I think most people feel the same way for mustangs, or for camaros. I don't think this article changes anyones mind on which one they would buy if they were going to buy one.

Until a couple months ago I preferred the Mustang because according to this forum, the Camaro is too heavy and handles badly despite being a better platform. But then I saw the Fifth Gear test where it handled great despite the size. This test only confirms that.

 

[Kadarin]

Head is exploding from the awesome drive. of a GT500.

Still not sure why people argue so much about things they will probably never own.

Yeah, those GT500s are so ridiculously expensive that nobody could ever possibly afford one.

<--- owns a GT500

 

[LTC8K6]

Driver matters, driver matters, driver matters, driver matters, driver doesn't matter.

Sarcasm. Very obvious sarcasm.

I'll label it in the future for you.

 

[leper84]

Until a couple months ago I preferred the Mustang because according to this forum, the Camaro is too heavy and handles badly despite being a better platform. But then I saw the Fifth Gear test where it handled great despite the size. This test only confirms that.

Thats funny, I really liked the new Camaro until I drove one (m6 2ss).... Its not just curb weight, sitting in that thing is like sitting in a tank.

GM's Zeta platform is great but they'll never change the fact that it is a large sedan platform, not a pony car- unless they slap in super-expensive magnetic shocks. Just like Ford can't completely get rid of s197's tendency to snap-oversteer, part of why the Camaro can eek out better slalom and lateral g.

Point being the only reason right now anyone should like one over the other is if they go drive the things themselves. We don't have nearly enough data- as in zero lap times- to say which car is really superior to the other.

 

[JackBurton]

Until a couple months ago I preferred the Mustang because according to this forum, the Camaro is too heavy and handles badly despite being a better platform. But then I saw the Fifth Gear test where it handled great despite the size. This test only confirms that.

You're looking at the V6 models. Instead of reading forums and magazines, go take a test drive of the V6 Camaro and let me know what you think. I drove one and it was HORRIBLE. It was an automatic, but the thing felt like I was driving a Camry with a sports car shell. Horrible.

 

[nicolaskl]

Admittedly I am biased towards the Camaro and Chevy. I had already made up my mind that the Camaro was the car I wanted even before I saw this test. I mean when you have the amount of horsepower that those two beasts have what really is the difference between 580 and 660? They are both around 600 ish, I see little difference.

If you look at typical dynos its actually more like a 100 horsepower difference.

Which results in trap speeds in the 1/4 that aren't even in the same ballpark. 116 mph vs. 124+ mph is leagues apart.

 

[Ferzerp]

You're looking at the V6 models. Instead of reading forums and magazines, go take a test drive of the V6 Camaro and let me know what you think. I drove one and it was HORRIBLE. It was an automatic, but the thing felt like I was driving a Camry with a sports car shell. Horrible.

But but the v6 model is just as good as the last v8 model! 🙄

 

[nicolaskl]

Camaro ZL1 carves up Nurburgring in 7:41.27 www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mhjGERugh0
Ford has ran the 2013 Gt500 on the ring, they just haven't published their lap time....hmmm wonder why?

Ford also hasn't published 1/4 or 0-60 times. Do you think that means the ZL1 beats it there?

Ford doesn't usually publish times.

Personally I think GMs chest thumping and smack talking is pathetic. ALL the magazines turn in dismal 1/4 times for the ZL1, so they go out and rent a track and with an insane amount of prep and perfect conditions manage to run a 11.96 and then start shouting from the tree tops that the ZL1 is an 11 second car (despite the fact that most mags and owners are getting more like 12.3 to 12.6).

Meanwhile Ford sits back and says nothing as Motortrend rips off 11.6 1/4s on their own.

Which is more impressive?

 

[nicolaskl]

Yeah, those GT500s are so ridiculously expensive that nobody could ever possibly afford one.

<--- owns a GT500

Ditto.

 

[KentState]

Ford also hasn't published 1/4 or 0-60 times. Do you think that means the ZL1 beats it there?

Ford doesn't usually publish times.

Personally I think GMs chest thumping and smack talking is pathetic. ALL the magazines turn in dismal 1/4 times for the ZL1, so they go out and rent a track and with an insane amount of prep and perfect conditions manage to run a 11.96 and then start shouting from the tree tops that the ZL1 is an 11 second car (despite the fact that most mags and owners are getting more like 12.3 to 12.6).

Meanwhile Ford sits back and says nothing as Motortrend rips off 11.6 1/4s on their own.

Which is more impressive?

Both are impressive in different ways. Not like both cars have to be the Swiss Army knife of performance. If only people got this bent of out shape about our shitty economy.

 

[96Firebird]

Personally I think GMs chest thumping and smack talking is pathetic. ALL the magazines turn in dismal 1/4 times for the ZL1, so they go out and rent a track and with an insane amount of prep and perfect conditions manage to run a 11.96 and then start shouting from the tree tops that the ZL1 is an 11 second car (despite the fact that most mags and owners are getting more like 12.3 to 12.6).

Wow, so you can shave a full second off the 1/4 mile time with a CAI, tune, and DRs? Guess that should be everyone's first mods!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQT27fNcL3g

 

[nicolaskl]

Wow, so you can shave a full second off the 1/4 mile time with a CAI, tune, and DRs? Guess that should be everyone's first mods!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQT27fNcL3g

Not sure why that should be a surprise, you can shave a full second off a 2012 GT500s time just by switching to slicks and skinnies.

The fact is that not a single magazine or owner, to date, has been able to dip into the 11s stock, or equal GMs reported times.

I believe the two tuners that have tested the car reported 12.3 and 12.5. Magazines have been anywhere from 12.1 to 12.9, and that 12.1 had the significant advantage of being tested at 4400' elevation and then correcting the times for the air density (i.e. it didn't actually run a 12.1, it ran a 12.6 and they corrected it down to 12.1).

Best owners run has been 12.02 IIRC, and many are in the 12.5 neighborhood (we'll ignore the guys that have run 13s for being poor drivers, although that's still a strike against the Camaro since the GM fanboys have been saying for months that the Camaros launch control/PTM, wider tires, etc would allow even your grandmother to run bottom 12s all day long).

Laguna/VIR/Willow/etc head to head tests are going to start pouring in any day now. If GM has the decided road course advantage it shouldn't be a surprise, in that case you've got a 55k dollar GT500 that dominates at the strip, and a 56,300 dollar ZL1 that has at least some advantage at the roadcourse, and you pick your poison (although it's pretty hilarious how many of the bowtie faithful have all of a sudden decided that handling is all they care about, despite the fact that .01% of them have probably ever turned a tire on a twisty track).

It's also pretty funny how many people think ANY 4300 pound raceweight vehicle with a heat soaking positive displacement blower is a "roadcourse car". GM makes a car that is GREAT for roadcourse work, hint: it isn't a Camaro.

So it's likely to end up Shelby:1, ZL1:1. But if the ZL1 gets beat in the hands of an independent tester at VIR or LS? If I were GM I'd be sweating.

 

[Childs]

Challenger > *. Thats why it wasn't invited to this "party".

hahah but seriously, I'm surprised someone would argue vehemently for one over the other because of a few tenths or hundreds of a sec here and there. Most people won't be able to match those numbers when they get behind the wheel.

 

[exdeath]

Challenger > *. Thats why it wasn't invited to this "party".

Cute little 400 HP cars need not apply to this grown up's party.

 

[Childs]

Cute little 400 HP cars need not apply to this grown up's party.

Challenger goes wherever the hell it wants to go! I see someone doing a test like this and I don't see a Challenger, I'll drive in there and flip them off, and yell "Challenger Mother F*ckers!"

 

[exdeath]

Challenger goes wherever the hell it wants to go! I see someone doing a test like this and I don't see a Challenger, I'll drive in there and flip them off, and yell "Challenger Mother F*ckers!"

Well they do make a Kenne Bell for the SRT8... You'll need it 🙂

 

[Arkaign]

Not sure why that should be a surprise, you can shave a full second off a 2012 GT500s time just by switching to slicks and skinnies.

The fact is that not a single magazine or owner, to date, has been able to dip into the 11s stock, or equal GMs reported times.

I believe the two tuners that have tested the car reported 12.3 and 12.5. Magazines have been anywhere from 12.1 to 12.9, and that 12.1 had the significant advantage of being tested at 4400' elevation and then correcting the times for the air density (i.e. it didn't actually run a 12.1, it ran a 12.6 and they corrected it down to 12.1).

Best owners run has been 12.02 IIRC, and many are in the 12.5 neighborhood (we'll ignore the guys that have run 13s for being poor drivers, although that's still a strike against the Camaro since the GM fanboys have been saying for months that the Camaros launch control/PTM, wider tires, etc would allow even your grandmother to run bottom 12s all day long).

Laguna/VIR/Willow/etc head to head tests are going to start pouring in any day now. If GM has the decided road course advantage it shouldn't be a surprise, in that case you've got a 55k dollar GT500 that dominates at the strip, and a 56,300 dollar ZL1 that has at least some advantage at the roadcourse, and you pick your poison (although it's pretty hilarious how many of the bowtie faithful have all of a sudden decided that handling is all they care about, despite the fact that .01% of them have probably ever turned a tire on a twisty track).

It's also pretty funny how many people think ANY 4300 pound raceweight vehicle with a heat soaking positive displacement blower is a "roadcourse car". GM makes a car that is GREAT for roadcourse work, hint: it isn't a Camaro.

So it's likely to end up Shelby:1, ZL1:1. But if the ZL1 gets beat in the hands of an independent tester at VIR or LS? If I were GM I'd be sweating.

Well put.