Greta is chosen as Time's Person of the Year

[Brainonska511]

That's because the crux of the problem isn't corporations. It's individuals. Individuals are exactly what the corporations determine to do.

Until individuals can systemically commit to what they preach, nothing will change. Period. People don't NEED gas guzzlers - but they are selling like hot cakes. People CAN take public transit but choose not to.

Also in a lot of states you can choose your electric provider - and some of them commit to 100% renewable energy while others dont.

Individuals are also making choices because collectively, through government, we're subsidizing poor choices. We don't bring economic pressure to bear on vehicle choices, we don't ban cars inside of cities to improve bus mass transit, and so on... So yes, individuals can make decisions, but there choices only go so far. Systemic issues must be fixed and collective pressure must be brought to the table to change regulations and guide consumer choice.

 

[mect]

That's because the crux of the problem isn't corporations. It's individuals. Individuals are exactly what the corporations determine to do.

Until individuals can systemically commit to what they preach, nothing will change. Period. People don't NEED gas guzzlers - but they are selling like hot cakes. People CAN take public transit but choose not to.

Also in a lot of states you can choose your electric provider - and some of them commit to 100% renewable energy while others dont.

Bullshit. No environmental problem has ever been solved by individuals committing to change their lifestyles. The only way environmental problems are ever solved is through government policy ensuring everyone is required to contribute.

 

[Vic]

Even though my personal actions are not relevant, I've done things like pay for 100% renewable power, limit my driving, use programmable thermostats and only turn on heat/cooling when actually needed, walk or bike places, etc... But me individually doing those things doesn't stop my fellow idiot citizens from buying gas guzzling vehicles they really don't need, doesn't stop companies from fracking or letting methane leak into the air, and so on.

This is not a problem that one person can fix. It requires collective action and actual power of government to force change. So yes, it is a problem of "America needs to do blah blah blah".

And for those concerned about using the power of government to force change, they may want to consider that that's how we got here in the first place.

 

[VRAMdemon]

These people really can't get Greta off their mind. Truly they get obsessed with women with power and/or popularity

Sebastian Gorka (former Deputy Assistant to Trump) calls climate activist Greta Thunberg "thunder thighs"

https://twitter.com/x/status/1214664326423941122

Nothing like a grown ass man, body shaming a minor.

Well. maybe she should snowflake out like conservative children and sue Fox News and these corporate talking heads for "ruining her life" like Sandmann did. She could be the poster girl for identity politics like good ole Nick wanted. Although it seems she fights back in the media instead of running away, hiding behind a bunch of lawyers and political party PR firms. It might not be her thing.

 

[Jaskalas]

Bullshit. No environmental problem has ever been solved by individuals committing to change their lifestyles. The only way environmental problems are ever solved is through government policy ensuring everyone is required to contribute.

If Republicans didn't believe in magical bootstrap faeries.... they wouldn't be delusional Republican.

 

[Vic]

That's because the crux of the problem isn't corporations. It's individuals. Individuals are exactly what the corporations determine to do.

Until individuals can systemically commit to what they preach, nothing will change. Period. People don't NEED gas guzzlers - but they are selling like hot cakes. People CAN take public transit but choose not to.

Also in a lot of states you can choose your electric provider - and some of them commit to 100% renewable energy while others dont.

In one word, this post is bullshit. Not even getting into how it ignores basic economic ideas and somehow manages to pretend that corporate and government policies have no impact, the worst part is that it spreads the myth that environmentalism requires self-sacrifice and self-imposed poverty, which is completely false.

 

[mect]

You guys should seriously seek mental help. Our president is overall no genius, but comparing a billionaire to someone that hasn't even graduated high school is just shear insanity. Seek mental help. You are living proof of the democratic party going down the shitter. You could easily bounce-back from Trump and win - but because of people like you that ignore reality, you will lose from your own self-ignorance.

He might be socially retarded, but his overall thought process is more in-depth than you realize. Is he an evil genius? Of course not, he's a dumbass plenty of times.... But is he dumb enough to think veganism can save the world? Nope. Does he understand more about general economics? Absolutely.

You guys really should consider pulling your heads out of eachother's arses. It will really help you if you plan to ever win elections.

I'd say you are the one that needs to seek mental help. Try this thought experiment. Imagine if we could take the public speeches, tweets, etc from Trump and Thunberg, and presented them to people who didn't know either person. If we then told these people one set came from a High Schooler, and one came from the President of the United States, do you think people could correctly identify which is which? My guess is that they would most likely switch them.

 

[Vic]

If Republicans didn't believe in magical bootstrap faeries.... they wouldn't be delusional Republican.

It's not delusion that drives their bullshit so much as the desire to exploit others whenever possible. In this case, to exploit the tragedy of the commons by tricking others into reducing their consumption of common resources so that they may increase their own consumption. When the actual solution here is to increase the efficiency of which common resources are consumed.

 

[Homerboy]

Well. maybe she should snowflake out like conservative children and sue Fox News and these corporate talking heads for "ruining her life" like Sandmann did. She could be the poster girl for identity politics like good ole Nick wanted. Although it seems she fights back in the media instead of running away, hiding behind a bunch of lawyers and political party PR firms. It might not be her thing.

I really love when Conservatives attack people smarter and wittier (not to be confused with "whiter") than them on social media. People like AOC and Greta are light-years ahead of them on this front (not to mention have armies of online denizens) behind them. It really is entertaining to see a 16 year old girl from Sweden verbally bitch slap the POTUS.

 

[zinfamous]

I'd recommend you do the same. I never said she was the problem. I feel she's being used and that it's detrimental to her. It's also my opinion that most adults aren't all that receptive to being lectured by children.

Strange. Tell that to the deplorables that rush like mad to defend the young MAGA hat kid that was insulting a bunch of randos at the National Mall last year, prior to the published incident (...and in that incident as well).

Tell that to the highly-selective sort of school shooting victims--the ones that are pilloried for speaking against gun violence, vs those that are lionized by gaslit conservative groups when they cry that more guns and more shooting is the solution to stopping their friends being murdered!

So...what I've learned, is that it's the same shit with conservatives, all the fucking time: The messenger is equally disposable, regardless of anything outside of their message. You're either with me and a patriot, or against me--and so for all observable, assumed, and labeled reasons--they are scum of the worst order.

 

[HomerJS]

Strange. Tell that to the deplorables that rush like mad to defend the young MAGA hat kid that was insulting a bunch of randos at the National Mall last year, prior to the published incident (...and in that incident as well).

Tell that to the highly-selective sort of school shooting victims--the ones that are pilloried for speaking against gun violence, vs those that are lionized by gaslit conservative groups when they cry that more guns and more shooting is the solution to stopping their friends being murdered!

So...what I've learned, is that it's the same shit with conservatives, all the fucking time: The messenger is equally disposable, regardless of anything outside of their message. You're either with me and a patriot, or against me--and so for all observable, assumed, and labeled reasons--they are scum of the worst order.

The same deplorables that lionize the MAGA hat kid threaten to kill David Hogg and he endured a mass school shooting

 

[Victorian Gray]

And that is where you should distinguish between a small child and a teenager. As a teen, she chose to put herself in this position.

The people attacking her are unwilling to grant her any self agency whatsoever.

 

[brycejones]

I'd recommend you do the same. I never said she was the problem. I feel she's being used and that it's detrimental to her. It's also my opinion that most adults aren't all that receptive to being lectured by children.

Who is using her? You've been pretty consistent that she shouldn't even be speaking out on this issue merely because of her age like that somehow makes her disqualified to give an opinion on the subject. The bold is exactly why in this case you are the problem. You are objecting to the messenger and ignoring the message.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I'd recommend you do the same. I never said she was the problem. I feel she's being used and that it's detrimental to her. It's also my opinion that most adults aren't all that receptive to being lectured by children.

here is what Greenman is really saying --
1 -I never said she was a problem -- what I implied, but did not come out and say was -- is she is the problem!
2 - I feel she is being used and that it is to her detriment! -- She should be seen and not heard! After all nothing intelligent can come out of her mind!
3 - It's also my opinion that most adults aren't all that receptive to being lectured by children. -- I for one am not all that gung hoe to be lectured by s snot nosed kid!!
Did get what you said correct??

 

[Greenman]

Strange. Tell that to the deplorables that rush like mad to defend the young MAGA hat kid that was insulting a bunch of randos at the National Mall last year, prior to the published incident (...and in that incident as well).

Tell that to the highly-selective sort of school shooting victims--the ones that are pilloried for speaking against gun violence, vs those that are lionized by gaslit conservative groups when they cry that more guns and more shooting is the solution to stopping their friends being murdered!

So...what I've learned, is that it's the same shit with conservatives, all the fucking time: The messenger is equally disposable, regardless of anything outside of their message. You're either with me and a patriot, or against me--and so for all observable, assumed, and labeled reasons--they are scum of the worst order.

That's a lot of whataboutisim, accusations, and hate, it doesn't change anything. Let me repeat my stance. Most adults don't like being lectured by children. Perhaps you're different and find the opinions of a little girl riveting, I don't. In fact, I don't know anyone who does. You can twist that any way you like, you can launch off into a two page tirade on the evil conservatives and their web of lies and hate. Greta will still be a child used to grab a headline.

 

[HomerJS]

That's a lot of whataboutisim, accusations, and hate, it doesn't change anything. Let me repeat my stance. Most adults don't like being lectured by children. Perhaps you're different and find the opinions of a little girl riveting, I don't. In fact, I don't know anyone who does. You can twist that any way you like, you can launch off into a two page tirade on the evil conservatives and their web of lies and hate. Greta will still be a child used to grab a headline.

If that's the case why was the MAGA hat wearing teen who got in the face of the Native American lauded as some kind of hero?

Let me guess, more hypocrisy?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

That's a lot of whataboutisim, accusations, and hate, it doesn't change anything. Let me repeat my stance. Most adults don't like being lectured by children. Perhaps you're different and find the opinions of a little girl riveting, I don't. In fact, I don't know anyone who does. You can twist that any way you like, you can launch off into a two page tirade on the evil conservatives and their web of lies and hate. Greta will still be a child used to grab a headline.

And let me reiterate, you're still projecting, and you're still attacking the messenger rather than arguing the message.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

That's a lot of whataboutisim, accusations, and hate, it doesn't change anything. Let me repeat my stance. Most adults don't like being lectured by children. Perhaps you're different and find the opinions of a little girl riveting, I don't. In fact, I don't know anyone who does. You can twist that any way you like, you can launch off into a two page tirade on the evil conservatives and their web of lies and hate. Greta will still be a child used to grab a headline.

And let me reiterate, you're still projecting, and you're still attacking the messenger rather than arguing the message.

I’m with Greenman. She is the wrong messenger and outside of the internet I know of zero adults whom want to be lectured by someone under 20.
This isn’t saying climate change isn’t real, this isn’t saying she (Greta) should be shamed or threatened, this isn’t saying nothing can or should be done regarding climate change, this isn’t saying Greta isn’t entitled to an opinion, this isn’t saying Greta is stupid or knows nothing.
What it is saying is I do not like listening to her preach and shame me about climate change. I’m sure if she reviewed your carbon footprint she would shame you. Hell she made her mother give up air travel. She is too extreme of a messenger.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

She is too extreme of a messenger.

This is the part I personally take issue with, but I think most would consider me to be a chicken little. I actually think we're at a tipping point, and we're very likely to take the plunge on the wrong side. To me there's no way to be too extreme about this message, because in 50 years when the remaining 90% have finally realized how absolutely fucked we are, some percentage of them are going to screech 'why didn't you tell us louder!' to which I'll just want to scream obscenities at them.

The environmentalist movement has tried 'these are the facts, things are grim' from scientists, that didn't work. They tried 'love mother earth' from the hippies, that didn't work. They tried 'real talk, this is how we are going to die' from celebrities and more scientists, that didn't work. They tried 'here's all the dead animals at our feet, here's some videos of our environment collapsing, and here's the reflection on our weather and our economy' from every expert that can be found, and THAT didn't work.

So I say bring on the next generation, let them crucify the olds and implement some policies that might save their bacon. We (collectively) sure as shit haven't done enough to ensure they won't die from starvation in a few decades.

 

[Brainonska511]

I’m with Greenman. She is the wrong messenger and outside of the internet I know of zero adults whom want to be lectured by someone under 20.
This isn’t saying climate change isn’t real, this isn’t saying she (Greta) should be shamed or threatened, this isn’t saying nothing can or should be done regarding climate change, this isn’t saying Greta isn’t entitled to an opinion, this isn’t saying Greta is stupid or knows nothing.
What it is saying is I do not like listening to her preach and shame me about climate change. I’m sure if she reviewed your carbon footprint she would shame you. Hell she made her mother give up air travel. She is too extreme of a messenger.

Give me a break. Americans just don't like being lectured, period because responsibility is for other people. Time and time again, people have cried about the messenger being bad - there is no perfect messenger for them.

The time for babying people is over, as we've put changing things for too long.

Sure, her family have taken some extreme steps, but that's the nature of activism. But can you imagine what would happen if they didn't do that: "herp derp, her family still does X, so I should ignore her message"

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Give me a break. Americans just don't like being lectured, period because responsibility is for other people. Time and time again, people have cried about the messenger being bad - there is no perfect messenger for them.

The time for babying people is over, as we've put changing things for too long.

Sure, her family have taken some extreme steps, but that's the nature of activism. But can you imagine what would happen if they didn't do that: "herp derp, her family still does X, so I should ignore her message"

Plus, you have to pull in an extreme direction to get people to move even one step the way you want them to, see our current political parties.

 

[ShookKnight]

The problem is not the message.

The problem is not the messenger.

The problem is the people who are receiving (hearing) the message.

There is clearly a very vocal group of people that do not like the message regarding climate change - and, they don't like it because they were told not to like it. The message is scientifically backed and proven. There is no denying it. So, instead of doing anything about it, they attack people who speak about it or try to raise awareness.

We've seen this plenty of times from your typical Rightzi scum.

They don't focus on the problem or crime committed - they attacked whoever brought it up / pointed it out.

 

[pmv]

I’m with Greenman. She is the wrong messenger and outside of the internet I know of zero adults whom want to be lectured by someone under 20.
This isn’t saying climate change isn’t real, this isn’t saying she (Greta) should be shamed or threatened, this isn’t saying nothing can or should be done regarding climate change, this isn’t saying Greta isn’t entitled to an opinion, this isn’t saying Greta is stupid or knows nothing.
What it is saying is I do not like listening to her preach and shame me about climate change. I’m sure if she reviewed your carbon footprint she would shame you. Hell she made her mother give up air travel. She is too extreme of a messenger.

I don't think she's that big a deal either way.

I have no particular problem with her, I find her amusing at times, and she brings out the viciousness of some on the right (not that that needs to be made any clearer at this point).

But, to be honest, I can sort-of imagine how irritating it might be if it were reversed, say some precocious but-kind-of-cute child was making arguments against immigration or against raising the minimum wage or something? I can to some extent see how tricky it might be to argue against something like that without coming across like a bully. But so many right-wingers don't seem to even attempt to tread that line, they just charge straight over it, which seems ill-disciplined, to me.

 

[mect]

That's a lot of whataboutisim, accusations, and hate, it doesn't change anything. Let me repeat my stance. Most adults don't like being lectured by children. Perhaps you're different and find the opinions of a little girl riveting, I don't. In fact, I don't know anyone who does. You can twist that any way you like, you can launch off into a two page tirade on the evil conservatives and their web of lies and hate. Greta will still be a child used to grab a headline.

People don't like to be lectured by anyone, period, unless the message confirms what they already believe. Age is irrelevant. The same message could have been delivered by a 50 year old expert in climate science, and people that are upset by it would still be upset. The purpose of Thunberg isn't to suddenly convert some 60 year old Trump supporter that climate change is a serious problem. Her goal is to rally those that are already aware of the problem of climate change, to get them mobilized and active in the political process, particularly young people. We don't need to convince anyone else that climate change is an issue. The majority of people already agree with that. We need to get these people to the ballot box to vote in people that will actually do something about it. We need to convince politicians that if they don't start working on this problem in a serious way, they will be voted out of office. Her goal is to grab headlines. Her goal is to keep climate change at the top of the list of concerns people have when they show up to vote.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

People don't like to be lectured by anyone, period, unless the message confirms what they already believe. Age is irrelevant. The same message could have been delivered by a 50 year old expert in climate science, and people that are upset by it would still be upset. The purpose of Thunberg isn't to suddenly convert some 60 year old Trump supporter that climate change is a serious problem. Her goal is to rally those that are already aware of the problem of climate change, to get them mobilized and active in the political process, particularly young people. We don't need to convince anyone else that climate change is an issue. The majority of people already agree with that. We need to get these people to the ballot box to vote in people that will actually do something about it. We need to convince politicians that if they don't start working on this problem in a serious way, they will be voted out of office. Her goal is to grab headlines. Her goal is to keep climate change at the top of the list of concerns people have when they show up to vote.

I’ll ask you what I asked someone else in the Greta thread.
Let’s say 16 year old prodigy who is excellent at being a manager. Would you be happy reporting to a 16 year old? Would you graciously accept feedback at work from a 16 year old.

Age makes a difference for most people I know.