Greece's Solution - A Warning to the US

[Hacp]

You do realize that SS ran a surplus up until this year don't you? There is a reason that the government didn't jump too quick to FIX SS. Medicare may be another story though.

Ran a surplus? You mean taking from younger workers so older ones can live like kings?

 

[Amused]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation

Moonie, read and learn.

History is FULL of examples of governments simply printing money to pay debts, and thus causing rapid and even hyper inflation.

The main cause of hyperinflation is a massive and rapid increase in the amount of money that is not supported by a corresponding growth in the output of goods and services.

So stop insulting everyone, okay? Just fucking admit you're wrong and move on.

 

[Moonbeam]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation

Moonie, read and learn.

History is FULL of examples of governments simply printing money to pay debts, and thus causing rapid and even hyper inflation.



So stop insulting everyone, okay? Just fucking admit you're wrong and move on.

Hyperinflation, WTF? The problem with inflation is venereal disease of which there are many kinds. That's what you need to worry about when my dick inflates. Try to focus your attention on real problems please. Don't give me any bullshit about hyperinflation. What you need to worry about is just getting it up. I got your hyperinflation for ya.

Droopy dick isn't good either, which is what supply side gives ya.

 

[Acanthus]

We do not have hyperinflation in the near future.

We face a problem with deflation at the moment. The price pressure on the CPI is so hard that even with the lowest interest rates in history the index isn't rising.

We are nowhere near a Greece situation and a lot closer to a Japan situation. Without dramatic reforms we are going to be staring at high unemployment for at least a decade (or World War III, that would do it).

 

[Acanthus]

You do realize that SS ran a surplus up until this year don't you? There is a reason that the government didn't jump too quick to FIX SS. Medicare may be another story though.

SS and Medicare were booth looted in their infancies. Originally it was supposed to be dividend-based money. Throughout the years the government dipped their slimy hands in the pool and took out pile after pile of money. Now there only way for it to sustain itself is through a pyramid scheme of receipts and payouts. With all of the baby boomers retiring and our population leveling off, as well as tax receipts dropping rapidly because of the recession the pyramid scheme is falling apart.

You will see a combination of the following:
1. Benefits will fall
2. Rates will rise or be uncapped for the rich (likely they will rise, lobbying power)
3. Further attempts to privatize the system and destroy it in its current form.

This is no fault of the system originally set up. Scheming douches like Truman looted the coffers and left it for later generations to deal with.

 

[Hacp]

SS and Medicare were booth looted in their infancies. Originally it was supposed to be dividend-based money. Throughout the years the government dipped their slimy hands in the pool and took out pile after pile of money. Now there only way for it to sustain itself is through a pyramid scheme of receipts and payouts. With all of the baby boomers retiring and our population leveling off, as well as tax receipts dropping rapidly because of the recession the pyramid scheme is falling apart.

You will see a combination of the following:
1. Benefits will fall
2. Rates will rise or be uncapped for the rich (likely they will rise, lobbying power)
3. Further attempts to privatize the system and destroy it in its current form.

This is no fault of the system originally set up. Scheming douches like Truman looted the coffers and left it for later generations to deal with.

Ultimatly, the beneficiaries of the looting is the generation that is retiring now. I say we stop the pyramid scheme now. Let whoever is out on SS payments be out. Its like Madoff. It was a pyramid scheme, promised revenue doesn't exist. OK, so there will be a few people who will face tough times. Well I got news for you. People lived before SS and they were faced with tough times too and they got past them!

 

[Acanthus]

Ultimatly, the beneficiaries of the looting is the generation that is retiring now. I say we stop the pyramid scheme now. Let whoever is out on SS payments be out. Its like Madoff. It was a pyramid scheme, promised revenue doesn't exist. OK, so there will be a few people who will face tough times. Well I got news for you. People lived before SS and they were faced with tough times too and they got past them!

It was a very serious problem pre-SS or it never would've passed in the first place.

In some cases when the old retire and don't have a proper retirement set up they could live with family or in group home situations. However, in a lot of cases they would lose everything and wind up homeless.

I'm for resupplying the coffers over a long period with benefits stagnating for a decade or so (we are not going to see a lot of inflation anyway) and taking extensive steps, maybe even an amendment to protect the govt for removing any money from the system.

 

[Bateluer]

Thread went downhill fast. Sounds like Greece's PM has the right idea, if he's allowed to continue, these policies will pull Greece away from the drain. We in the USA seem to be waving at the Greeks as our ships pass each other, them away from the drain, us full throttle towards it.

 

[Acanthus]

Thread went downhill fast. Sounds like Greece's PM has the right idea, if he's allowed to continue, these policies will pull Greece away from the drain. We in the USA seem to be waving at the Greeks as our ships pass each other, them away from the drain, us full throttle towards it.

You think austerity will fix the country in the long term?

There is no question it is extremely bad in the short-term.

Please draw the parallels between the Greek and US economic issues.

 

[Engineer]

Ran a surplus? You mean taking from younger workers so older ones can live like kings?

Call it what you will but you stated that SS/Medicare were the biggest part of the deficit. I pointed out that SS tax receipts were more than the outlays and therefore contributed to no deficit directly until this year.

When I was younger, I too wanted SS scrapped and the ability to use my money as I saw fit. I've paid in long enough now that I want at least what I paid in (don't even care about the company match portion so much anymore).

By the way, if you think SS recipients live like Kings, you're full of shit. For that matter, reading your posts, you're full of shit anyway so same difference, lol!

 

[sandorski]

Comparisons between Greece and the US are ridiculous.

 

[SammyJr]

This is the liberal solution to everything. Print money! Outrageous. I say the only way to balance the budget is to fire all the federal employees. Then rehire them all at minimum wage.

And you think Government services suck now? And I don't think all of those in the military will like this much either.

Although, I could see Congress working for minimum wage. Its pretty much a minimum wage job to be bitches for lobbyists and Big Business.

 

[SammyJr]

Socialism promises a life of ease and comfort for everyone. But it's based on the premise of taking from those who produce and giving to those that don't. Stupidity and laziness are rewarded, planing, hard work and thrift are penalized. Who would ever think such a system would work? The only surprising thing about it is that it takes so long to fall apart.

That's one way to interpret it. The better way to interpret it is that everyone works and certain things (roads, schools, health care, military, etc) are paid for by everyone.

 

[SammyJr]

And what do you propose to do with all of the people who will be destitute and sick?

Do you really think they'll sit by and not revolt?

How long before you separate them into castes and virtual serfs?

Says the guy who lives in his parents basement.

You really have no options, nor did you address the charts, you just added some pseudo-strawman to the mix that you thought would make you look conservative and smart.

They'll just die quickly and quietly, of course! Its part of the Free Trade faith.

 

[SammyJr]

Ran a surplus? You mean taking from younger workers so older ones can live like kings?

People on SS live like kings?

Maybe if their they put their 2010 SS check in a DeLorean and went back to 1955.

 

[CycloWizard]

What right do you have to confront such people. Why are you arrogant enough to assume they are ignorant. Since you feel the right to confront the ignorant I confront you for the same reason. I have determined you are ignorant and that entitles me. Therefore, in addition, you know nothing about what is useful and what isn't. The article makes the point that professional economists lean away from supply and toward demand? I have seen that same truth stated many times in many places, sadly for minority backward ignorant you.

The problem is that you confuse knowledge with arrogance because you know nothing. Since you know nothing, you assume the rest of us are in the same boat. Sorry to disappoint you. Your article, which utilizes an appeal to popularity as its very foundation, is nothing more than a fallacy-based puff piece.

 

[CycloWizard]

Comparisons between Greece and the US are ridiculous.

You're right. I'm sure principles of economics are spatially variant.

 

[sandorski]

You're right. I'm sure principles of economics are spatially variant.

As Moonbeam pointed out earlier, Greece has no control over its' Currency. That point by itself makes comparison ridiculous.

 

[Moonbeam]

The problem is that you confuse knowledge with arrogance because you know nothing. Since you know nothing, you assume the rest of us are in the same boat. Sorry to disappoint you. Your article, which utilizes an appeal to popularity as its very foundation, is nothing more than a fallacy-based puff piece.

Popularity among experts is the basis of scientific consensus. Talk about not knowing anything. What I don't know is the kind of piggish egotism that blinds me to simple facts like that. You worship a minority god among the economic community and what you do is hammer home over and over your stupid opinion. I don't know the answers but I know you don't either.

 

[Acanthus]

You're right. I'm sure principles of economics are spatially variant.

Our economies aren't even similar.

 

[Moonbeam]

Our economies aren't even similar.

Forgive him. He's spaced out and it's affecting his reasoning.

 

[CycloWizard]

Popularity among experts is the basis of scientific consensus. Talk about not knowing anything. What I don't know is the kind of piggish egotism that blinds me to simple facts like that. You worship a minority god among the economic community and what you do is hammer home over and over your stupid opinion. I don't know the answers but I know you don't either.

Scientific consensus is an oxymoron. In science, something is either right or it's not. The number of scientists who believe x=y has no bearing on whether or not it is actually true that x=y. And I don't support "supply-side" economics - that's just your strawman.

 

[CycloWizard]

Our economies aren't even similar.

Of course there are differences, but there are also plenty of similarities. According to the article, Greece's economy is exactly where the US is headed, even if we're not there yet. Its foundation is borrowed money spent by government to give its citizenry everything it wants. It has regulated everything to the nth degree, created government monopolies in important industries, and made it difficult for businesses to do business within its borders. Sounds pretty similar to the US to me.

 

[Acanthus]

Of course there are differences, but there are also plenty of similarities. According to the article, Greece's economy is exactly where the US is headed, even if we're not there yet. Its foundation is borrowed money spent by government to give its citizenry everything it wants. It has regulated everything to the nth degree, created government monopolies in important industries, and made it difficult for businesses to do business within its borders. Sounds pretty similar to the US to me.

United States - Labor force - by occupation:

farming, forestry, and fishing: 0.7%
manufacturing, extraction, transportation, and crafts: 20.3%
managerial, professional, and technical: 37.3%
sales and office: 24.2%
other services: 17.6%
note: figures exclude the unemployed (2009)

Greece - Labor force - by occupation:

agriculture: 12.4%
industry: 22.4%
services: 65.1% (2005 est.)

Not, even, close.

Greece - Imports - partners:

Germany 13.73%, Italy 12.71%, China 7.08%, France 6.1%, Netherlands 6.02%, South Korea 5.68%, Belgium 4.34%, Spain 4.08% (2009)

United States - Imports - partners:

China 19.3%, Canada 14.24%, Mexico 11.12%, Japan 6.14%, Germany 4.53% (2009)

Source: CIA world factbook. You are also comparing the ~140th economy in the world with #2.

 

[Circlenaut]

According to Nikolopoulou, the prime minister failed to propose any measures to improve conditions for those who have been most affected.
"I was hoping that he would give us some kind of bonus, or something to balance the fact that prices have gone up so much. But nothing. How are we to live? Fuel prices have been rising and they might go up again, and the health system is barely functioning so I have no choice but to go to private doctors. I can barely eat let alone warm the house and go to the doctor with my current pension," she said.

This type of thinking has been creeping into the American psyche for the last 30 years and it's scary. When you put all of your eggs into a basket and that basket has a hole in it, what do you expect?

Seriously, where do these people expect money to come from the magic cash fairy!? Their country is nearly collapsing and the people are protesting to get bonuses, WTF. I say let the EU cut greece off and see how long a protectionist based economy works.