There is a hole in my logic though. The only way to truly tell the best player is to make them play one on one.
Who's to say that Russell's supporting cast wasn't heads above that of Jordan or Chamberlain for all 11 championships. If it's true, then Russell did need to come along as quickly - he simply rode his teammates coat tails.
Who knows.
Bad criteria...there are many worse players that have more championships than great players in any sport.
Sounds very compeling - but if he was so dominate than how did Russell beat him all those times?
As I said - you should only consider stats so much - you have to consider their heart and their desire to win.
I would take Montana over Marino and Brady over P. Manning any day.
That's true, but the American's have had the best basketball players in all Olympics and all world championships for as long as the pros have been playing. Yet they haven't won in a dog's age.
There is way more to basketball than stats and being the best individual player. If you can't play in a team than you are worthless unless you can beat the other team by yourself.
Look at Bryant and Shaq - they were too stupid to realize that if they played together they would have been dominant and could have won multiple championships back to back.
I submit that all criteria is bad to judge this question, but since all players play to win - the number of championships is the best of the worst criteria.
I knew it was on the turn of a decade. Couldn't remember which one and it made my argument more compeling by choosing 2000.
"Of the 142 times they faced each other in the regular season or the playoffs, Chamberlain averaged 28.7 points and exactly 28.7 rebounds. Russell averaged 14.5 points and 23.7 rebounds."
Russell had the supporting cast. Cousy and K.C. Jones were great players.
And as far as being a team player goes, Wilt was one of the best. He was a great assister and did everything the coach asked of him and never took selfish shots. He had a very high field goal percentage, despite his main shot being an outside fade-away or finger-roll (wasn't a big dunker at all).
Originally posted by: Garet Jax
I knew it was on the turn of a decade. Couldn't remember which one and it made my argument more compeling by choosing 2000.
Yeah, I can understand. I feel old remembering how long ago it really was...
I don't doubt that Chamberlain's numbers were better than Russell's in head to head meetings.
But that means nothing if Chamberlian lost. If Russell scored no points, got no assists, got no rebounds, no blocks and no steals in any head to head matchup against Chamberlain, but won everyone of them, then I still say Russell is better at the game.
This is because the game has 4 other players on the court and the ultimate goal is to win.
It's like in poker where there are 5 cards on the board. You can have the nuts through the turn, but if you have the second best hand on the river, then you still lose.
This is one of the reasons I stopped watching basketball - there are too many individuals who seemed more concerned about the number of times they touch the ball rather than doing all they can do to win.
Teams win championships - individuals don't.
Teams win championships - individuals don't.
Whoozyerdaddy
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FallenHero
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I believe the era of streetball took over the moment Jordan left. He was probably the only thing holding it back. That alone should make him #1...he kept alot of the thugs in the shadows so many people could actually experience real basketball.
He played in an Era where players were not as skilled as they are now.
Basketball has changed so much over the years, it wouldn't be fair to compare the players of yesturday with the players of today.
Ok guys lets all think reasonably here for a second.
Think about the criteria to use in judging who the greatest is and we come to a red light.
Its actually very difficult to quantify who the Greatest Basketball player of all time is.
Firstly, Basketball is a TEAM sport. Thus, Just because one player's team has the most championship seasons doesnt make him the greatest. Winning those championships also had to do with teammates, the competition during that era, and the skill overall the players of that era possessed.
Secondly, putting players in 1v1 situations doesnt allow us to find the answer. Basketball is more about the team than the individual. Think Shaq vs Jordan 1v1, Jordan may be more well rounded and possess more skills, but shaq would win based on size alone (hypothesis).
Thirdly, if we judge who the greatest is based on popularity, we run into another problem. Players from older generations are most likely forgotten in today's era, and thus there is a bias here as well.
How do we actually quantify who the greatest player is? I think we should put our focus on Impact. The impact that player had on the game, on the game's popularity, and on the world stage. There is only one man who fits this bill..... Michael Jordan. He had such an impact on the world that he transcended race, gender, and even basketball. White people, Women, and people who knew nothing about basketball admired him. He became part of the mainstream, a household name. Kids in Africa with no TV or electricity wore Jordan Jerseys. People in china, india, and iraq all knew his name. You didn't have to be a basketball fan to be a Michael Jordan fan.
Thus I think Michael Jordan is the greatest player of all time.
Think about the criteria to use in judging who the greatest is and we come to a red light.
Its actually very difficult to quantify who the Greatest Basketball player of all time is.
Firstly, Basketball is a TEAM sport. Thus, Just because one player's team has the most championship seasons doesnt make him the greatest. Winning those championships also had to do with teammates, the competition during that era, and the skill overall the players of that era possessed.
Secondly, putting players in 1v1 situations doesnt allow us to find the answer. Basketball is more about the team than the individual. Think Shaq vs Jordan 1v1, Jordan may be more well rounded and possess more skills, but shaq would win based on size alone (hypothesis).
Thirdly, if we judge who the greatest is based on popularity, we run into another problem. Players from older generations are most likely forgotten in today's era, and thus there is a bias here as well.
How do we actually quantify who the greatest player is? I think we should put our focus on Impact. The impact that player had on the game, on the game's popularity, and on the world stage. There is only one man who fits this bill..... Michael Jordan. He had such an impact on the world that he transcended race, gender, and even basketball. White people, Women, and people who knew nothing about basketball admired him. He became part of the mainstream, a household name. Kids in Africa with no TV or electricity wore Jordan Jerseys. People in china, india, and iraq all knew his name. You didn't have to be a basketball fan to be a Michael Jordan fan.
Thus I think Michael Jordan is the greatest player of all time.
Originally posted by: nkgreen
Wrong answer sorry. Read my next one.
But if you really think about it...... watched old tapes and compared them to today's players.... You'd see where I'm coming from. I might be wrong to say that they are not as skilled. But I will say for sure that the game has evolved since the time of Bill Russel and Walt Chamberlain.
Originally posted by: Garet Jax
Originally posted by: BlancoNino
For a center, Wilt was a great assister. Blocked shots weren't on record until the year after Wilt retired, but nobody disputes that he would easily be number 1 all time in career blocks and blocks per game. Also, Wilt was great at stealing for a center (but that record wasn't official until after he retired). Had those records been kept, you'd see him on those lists
There's no I in team
Wilt was a great player, but he only won 1 (I think) championship compared to Russell's 11 and Jordan's 6.
Stats be damned, basketball is a team game and there weren't too many professional teams that Chamberlain could beat alone.
as important as winning championships is, you have to realize a player may never win one because his team is mismanaged by GMs and owners. or his coach got outcoached in big games. or his teammates werent as good as the other team's.
there's no "I" in team, but hey, we're trying to pick the "I" here, so you can throw any team related accomplishments, including championships, out the window. russell was a great player and one of the best of all time, but certainly not the greatest.
You really think Shaq would beat Jordan 1v1? Haha. Shaq wouldn't be able to go anywhere...Jordan would steal the ball every time.
Bill Russel
Interesting clip about Bill Russel in which he addresses his mindset in playing Chamberlain.
There are a ton of MJ videos I'm sifting through on youtube atm, so I'll see if I can find a similar one.
Interesting clip about Bill Russel in which he addresses his mindset in playing Chamberlain.
There are a ton of MJ videos I'm sifting through on youtube atm, so I'll see if I can find a similar one.
Lewis Alcindor / Kareem Abdul-Jabbar ranks up there pretty high, with his skyhook and
"The three-time college All-America simply ruled the game at the college level,"
then 6 NBA MVP awards,
Sports Illustrated's Sportsman of the Year in 1985,
Basketball Hall of Fame.
"The three-time college All-America simply ruled the game at the college level,"
then 6 NBA MVP awards,
Sports Illustrated's Sportsman of the Year in 1985,
Basketball Hall of Fame.
SearchMaster
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I would go with Jordan, but Oscar Robertson's 61-62 season is the greatest single season performance ever (averaged a triple-double, including 30+ ppg).
iamme
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Michael Jordan, plain and simple.
Wilt had tremendous stats that might overshadow MJ's, but what MJ did for the game off the court was unparalleled. MJ couldn't walk down the streets anywhere in the world without being mobbed. MJ's basketball brand generates millions every year, even though he doesn't even play anymore. it may not be your critieria, but when i think of greatest basketball player of all time, i think of the man who lifted the game to ridiculously new heights. that was Michael Jordan.
besides, Wilt was a freak of nature athlete in his time period. there were stories of him competing in so many non-basketball sports and competitions and excelling. i think that today's average NBA player has more athleticism than yesteryear's. i think a guy like Kevin Garnett transported back into Wilt's day would have shattered records as well.
Wilt had tremendous stats that might overshadow MJ's, but what MJ did for the game off the court was unparalleled. MJ couldn't walk down the streets anywhere in the world without being mobbed. MJ's basketball brand generates millions every year, even though he doesn't even play anymore. it may not be your critieria, but when i think of greatest basketball player of all time, i think of the man who lifted the game to ridiculously new heights. that was Michael Jordan.
besides, Wilt was a freak of nature athlete in his time period. there were stories of him competing in so many non-basketball sports and competitions and excelling. i think that today's average NBA player has more athleticism than yesteryear's. i think a guy like Kevin Garnett transported back into Wilt's day would have shattered records as well.
Jordan defined and changed how the game was played.
Wilt 2nd because he didn't define how the game was played but was super dominant because of his size and athletic ability.
Wilt 2nd because he didn't define how the game was played but was super dominant because of his size and athletic ability.
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